Locormus

I know. Some people, man.

Thanks for taking the time to post such long responses in my threads in the Gen II forums. That is awesome that you actually completed the PokeDex! And yes, Mahogany and Cianwood are my favorite Johto cities too, Mahogany has an isolated, ninja, secret, musty, woodsy feel to it- ha!

Yes but I wasn't lol.

If the Sinnoh team had three double battles and two full battles, before getting to that same quarter finals full battle, then the circumstances would be the same...Would Staraptor still only have that one single win? I think not.

No, it would not have a single win. But neither would I expect it to impress me like Glalie or Swellow. Like I said above, at best I would expect a 50% W/L performance.

Swellow's overall record before the Latios duel was 9-1-4. That shows consistency. Swellow was consistent before the league, it was consistent during the league, and it was consistent after the league. It performed well against elite competition. In those actual battles, it has shown the ability to outspeed its opponents, literally OHKO/2HKO them, and its stamina and willpower is impressive. Point being, Swellow is not overrrated. Swellow is a definite tier 2 Pokemon. While I love Staraptor the species, Ash's Staraptor hasn't shown that same degree of consistency, nor has it shown better individual feats of power, speed, and stamina. Mind you, I don't think it's bad either, which is why I would place it as a tier 3 mon. This is why Swellow vs Latios disappointed me. I didn't expect Swellow to win, but it just contradicted all of the bird's performances prior to the matchup.

Would Staraptor have gotten more wins if there weren't reserves? Yes, likely. But would it have been equivalent to Swellow's? Doubtful.

That is exactly why I have referenced and analyzed the battles. Staraptor has never shown in any of those matches that it has equivalent feats of power, speed, and stamina and can carry battles in the same way as Swellow.

In the two battles Staraptor participated in at the Sinnoh League, it went 1-2. It didn't go 2-0 like Gible did against Conway. It managed to overcome Roserade, but then got immediately KO'd by Nando's more powerful Armaldo. Against Paul, it flopped. So basically I have no reason to believe that suddenly Staraptor is going to 4-1-2 like Swellow did in a hypothetical no-reserve league. Furthermore, Staraptor never showed equivalent feats of power, speed, and stamina that Swellow demonstrated in pre-league battles that would even lead me to think it has the potential of doing that either.

I imagine if you could extrapolate a W/L record, it would be at best 50% (1 W and 1 L per battle) like Grovyle's.

Considering the context of the vs. Paul battle, considering the storyline with Infernape and that it would dominate the battle, there's even less to discuss.


So what? Infernape got 3 wins. But Pikachu, Gliscor, and Buizel also all got wins. Staraptor got none. On the same stage against an equally difficult opponent, Swellow earned 2 and injured 1. Staraptor struggled against Gastrodon, and got destroyed by Drapion.


Not to mention that vs. Tyson and vs. Paul are contextually very different battles...we knew that a few were not getting wins vs. Paul.

Why did that few not include Pikachu, Gliscor, or Buizel? They each got wins against Paul's Pokemon. It could have been Gliscor struggling against Gastrodon and getting demolished by Drapion. Instead, it was Staraptor. That's no excuse.

I'm basing the "it could've done equal to Swellow in the Hoenn-League"-argument on that if you compare their efforts during the region, their win/loss-ratio, that they're comparable. Swellow had 3-2, while Staraptor had 4-3. Hence, why I think that Staraptor could've done equal to Swellow in the Hoenn-League.

You say you don't like the numbers argument, but you mention it here. And it's spurious because you only include the gym battles and hold all battles with equal weight, because as I mentioned, the W/L record of earlier evolutionary forms in the early parts of the regions don't matter as much.

You go into an analysis of why Staraptor didn't perform as well as Swellow did in the quarter finals. But...Hoenn League was a lot longer and had no reserves interfering with the then current team.

Yes, because you are intentionally ignoring the fact that you simply cannot extrapolate that if the Sinnoh League didn't have reserves, Staraptor would have the same impressive battle record. Because, as I have explained, there is no evidence to suggest that would be case.

Hence, each member of the Hoenn team had more time to breath and rack up more wins...perhaps the writers would've handled it differently in order to spread the "glory" a bit more...several will walk away with multiple wins, the average would be four each actually. In Sinnoh, Ash's core six, faced NINE opponents in the entire league, counting in the fact that Staraptor could've done a Noctowl vs. Nando.

Except even at the Hoenn League, there wasn't an equal distribution of glory either.

1. Glalie: 5-2-0
2. Swellow: 4-1-2
3. Corphish: 4*-1-2 (* 2 of the wins were when Morrison was intentionally losing )
4. Grovyle: 3-0-3
5. Pikachu: 2-0-3
6. Torkoal: 2-0-4

Swellow had the second best record among Ash's six Pokemon. It battled impressively in the toughest battle (quarterfinals) against the toughest opponent (the eventual Champion).

I wasn't even going by win ratio though. If we were going by that then Pikachu would be the strongest thing ever and we all know that is bullshiz. I look at the battles themselves when I judge a pokemon on it's strength.

Not saying they "don't count." But they don't matter as much. A Pokemon in stage 1 could earn wins at the start of the region, but same Pokemon in stage 3 could flop by the league.

For example, Grovyle was okay, but by Hoenn League, Glalie/Swellow were better. Only when it became Sceptile in BF and eventually defeat Darkrai is when it became the universally regarded tier 1 mon. On the flip side, look at Torterra. Yes, it would be in better shape if it didn't have Suicide Mountain, but still, it was doing well as a Turtwig and a Grotle, but then lost all the time as a Torterra. Now, nobody considers Torterra to be on par with Sceptile or Bulbasaur.

Of course Staravia earned wins. But League opponents/Frontier Brains > gym leaders. Also, its unfair to compare Taillow to Staravia, since former evolves once.

As for Chimchar, same logic. Only caveat is that it didn't evolve till ep132, by which time it starred in multiple gyms (others would have evolved). And Infernape did do well, so what I said holds true.

The numbers game shows how impressive of a record Swellow carries.

If Staraptor had the same amount of battles...more wins during that league.

Based on what?

Staraptor didn't star against Candice - it KO'd a Medicham (arguably 3rd/4th best of her's), but failed against Abomasnow. Staraptor didn't star against Nando. Staraptor failed to earn a win against Paul. Its best feat was defeating a Weavile that's not in Paul's top 5. Swellow starred against Winona, starred alongside Pikachu against Tate/Liza, and KO'd Whiscash (arguably 2nd best of Juan's). Swellow took out 2 and injured 1 against Tyson, at the same QF stage where Staraptor flopped.

In none of the actual battles does Sraptor replicate the same feats of power, speed, and stamina of Swellow's.

As for movesets, point was that it's dumb when ppl say Staraptor is better b/c of CC and BB Movesets mean nothing if you don't have the power, speed, or stamina behind them.

In regards to Dephender going too far with his scolding, he's not the only case of strange moderation recently. I personally keep getting infractions for the tiniest things, whereas character bashing and the likes are apparently still fair game to other users.

Basically, whether they admit or deny it, it's clear that the moderators have their favourites amongst the userbase, who can get away with endless things. However they often dislike people who think slightly differently to the way they do and therefore scold them for it without thinking about it properly..

This isn't to say that all moderating staff are power abusing madmen, but their way of handling things does often raise a few eyebrows..

You're probably right.

But after hearing the actress who's playing Hoopa, I can't blame him.

Doesn't mean the whole dub will be bad though.

Blissey .

Its not you. Its that Dr. Psycho guy. He's literally throwing a hissy fit because people are talking about the probability of Goodra leaving being high on the speculation thread. Like if he can't handle the discussion don't some on the speculation thread and start crying about it.

You know at first I was kinda neutral on the prospect of Barney leaving Ash's team but now enough people have pissed me off about it that I'd be happy if Goodra leaves.

Merry Christmas Loco!

Nice. Glad to hear Larde's doing well with you

Yeah I have Alpha Sapphire. Just beat Wattson but I haven't played in a couple of weeks due to school piling up.

xD. Top Banter. I wish you and Larde.. success in your future endeavors

True. That is a risk. Still I'd test it out first. If Cyber does end up getting one-shotted too much then other options should be turned to.

I'd say test out the Jolly little Cyber (yes that's what I'm referring to all Makuhita from now on) and see what results it yields for it. If you aren't satisfied then I say move on to your options.

Your post in the Skiddo episode thread is one of the GOAT (pun intended) posts I've seen on this forum