•Official B2/W2 In-Game Tiers• * READ THE OP *

[edonub]

[2/3] Maractus Low
I have used it on a joke team and it was by far the less crappy one. If you don't make your team weak to Sunny Day, it can actually do some work with Chlorophyl.

[3/3] Lower Middle Camerupt, but it really does need Rock Polish on pretty much any set.

 

[amittal12]

Zangoose - Lower Middle Tier
Availability - Mid-Late Game(Route 7)
Notable Moves - Swords Dance,Return,Close Combat,Shadow Claw,Rock Slide,X-Scissor,Elemental Punches
Stats - Great Attack and Good Speed.Below Average everywhere else.

+Great Movepool like other Normal type Pokemon.
+Immunity is helpful against certain things like Ghetsis's Cofagrigus.
+Useful for catching Legendaries with access to False Swipe naturally.
-Very Frail which makes it difficult to get a Swords Dance boost.
-Since its available later than other Normal type Pokemon,its Happiness would be low when caught.
-Generally outclassed by Cinccino and Stoutland.

 

[edonub]

Not outclassed by Cincinno for sure, and not outclassed by Stoutland because -in theory- they should never meet, as the Stoutland line's utility lies in the early game. Zangoose's Return hits as hard -or harder- than Cincinno's Tail Slap without missing. It gets Swords Dance and most importantly Close Combat, and has the exact same bulk as Cincinno iirc. Rock/Grass has weak coverage especially if your main STAB is Normal. Close Combat (and Shadow Claw if needed) on the other hand, hits everything that resists Normal for SE damage. Elemental punches as well as X-Scissor, Rock Slide etc. are a plus in case you need to cover a specific weakness. Zangoose is much more versatile than Cincinno which is equally frail, has pretty damn bad SE coverage while lacking a boosting move, its only viable STAB is inaccurate, has a movepool consisting of THREE useful moves, and I could go on and on.

 

[azeem40]

Zangoose - Lower Middle Tier
Availability - Mid-Late Game(Route 7)
Notable Moves - Swords Dance,Return,Close Combat,Shadow Claw,Rock Slide,X-Scissor,Elemental Punches
Stats - Great Attack and Good Speed.Below Average everywhere else.

+Great Movepool like other Normal type Pokemon.
+Immunity is helpful against certain things like Ghetsis's Cofagrigus.
+Useful for catching Legendaries with access to False Swipe naturally.
-Very Frail which makes it difficult to get a Swords Dance boost.
-Since its available later than other Normal type Pokemon,its Happiness would be low when caught.
-Generally outclassed by Cinccino and Stoutland.

It doesn't need anything else to survive. I gets amazing coverage with Fighting+ Ghost. I would say Middle.

 

[Aurath8]

It doesn't need anything else to survive. I gets amazing coverage with Fighting+ Ghost. I would say Middle.

As for Zangoose, it already has Crush Claw and Revenge as you catch it, and Shadow Claw is in Celestial Tower almost immediately after, including the elemental punches and Low Kick from Driftveil. Its stats are almost identical to Cincinno's except Atk and Spd are switched, bearing in mind Cincinno's in High. It doesn't have Sweep Slap, but its Return is almost as powerful, has a better movepool and its speed is still high enough to outspeed most pokemon. Of course its not near guranteed like Cincinno, which is his downfall.
I say Upper-Middle for Zangoose [1/3]. He already has a good moveset upon capture and is convenient to raise and his only downfall is his frailty coupled with his not-quite-amazing speed.

 

[edonub]

As for Zangoose, it already has Crush Claw and Revenge as you catch it, and Shadow Claw is in Celestial Tower almost immediately after, including the elemental punches and Low Kick from Driftveil. Its stats are almost identical to Cincinno's except Atk and Spd are switched, bearing in mind Cincinno's in High. It doesn't have Sweep Slap, but its Return is almost as powerful, has a better movepool and its speed is still high enough to outspeed most pokemon. Of course its not near guranteed like Cincinno, which is his downfall.
I say Upper-Middle for Zangoose [1/3]. He already has a good moveset upon capture and is convenient to raise and his only downfall is his frailty coupled with his not-quite-amazing speed.

Been waiting for someone else to back me up before voting, [2/3] Upper Middle
I actually replaced my Cincinno with a Zangoose on my playthrough. tbh ingame, anything above 85 base speed is considered "fast enough", unless you're in the battle subway where the pokes actually have good IVs and EV investment. Stuff like Chandelure at 80 base speed can outspeed most of the elite 4 unless it has really bad IVs and a horrible nature. That's why that 20 extra base attack point are far more valuable than the speed, imo.

 

[Zhanton]

[3/3] Zangoose for Upper-Mid. It seems like a really solid Pokemon and I think the only thing that really holds it back is its frailty.

[3/3] Maractus for Low. It's definitely useable in the middle portion of the game (and possibly even beyond) and it has a decent movepool to go mixed with.

Also going to [2/3] Sandslash for mid. It's got an early evolution and does well mid-game, dominating Elesa and I'd imagine it would perform decently against Clay as well. It's got some good physical stats but it's not that amazing on the special side but eh.

*cough*someone vote Lilligant for high please. I've posted my arguments for it on the previous page I believe*cough*

 

[Tsumiki]

I'm still on the fence with Lilligant tbh. The fact that it requires setup to deal with some of the more common types (Poison and Steel ala Team Plasma) really cuts it down, no matter how easy the setup may be. It'd go straight to High if it had some form of coverage move, but as it stands, Mono-Grass just doesn't cut it for me. I won't cast a vote, but those are my two cents on Lilligant.

 

[Noctourniquet]

Just wondering, but have you used Lilligant in a playthrough? Grass attacks are pretty much all it needs, tbh; after a Quiver Dance (and you should have no trouble setting those up since Lilligant is already fast and has Sleep Powder and Leech Seed which help with setting up), STAB Giga Drain or STAB Own Tempo Petal Dance hit like a truck. You get it pretty early, you can evolve it at Lv 26 (after it learns Giga Drain as a Petilil, but before Lv 28 when it learns Quiver Dance as a Lilligant), so at around the fourth Gym you have a Pokemon with base 110 SpA, base 90 Speed, one of the best set-up moves in the game in Quiver Dance, and a great moveset in Leech Seed, Sleep Powder and Giga Drain (until you can get Petal Dance). Yes, it may look like mono-Grass is terrible, but speaking from experience, Lilligant is brilliant (and I do think that, while theorymonning is all well and good, personal experience with a Pokemon holds a lot of weight) and doesn't fade away whatsoever, so I'm still sticking with High.

yeah i have used it in-game (admittedly, in b/w not b2/w2) and it was alright but nothing special lol. i dont really know how you managed to make it work but for me a pokémon that has to set up to get locked into attacking with only one type while it's got no real serious defences of its own to survive with is just not ok. i'm only going upper mid on it because it's destructive when it does get going but honestly... i really cannot find reasoning to go higher than that on a pokémon which requires a setup to only hit with one type of move. plus sleep powder isn't a particularly reliable move to help you survive. it just seems very easy to kill and very limited to me. i see that it can hit hard but... no. not shifting from upper mid here.

 

[Dragoniteftw]

I personally think grass typing really suffers in BW2 (plasma and you hit 4/8 gyms for 0.5) coverage moves are needed to make up for this. Lilligant has no coverage moves and although its easily the best grass pokemon from unova it really doesn't mesh well with BW2. Own tempo + petal dance + quiver dance + decent sp.att and speed - no coverage is upper middle [3/3] IMO.

Because High is also 2/3 we should let some more people say what they think before tiering lilligant.

 

[edonub]

The thing is, a resisted STAB Petal Dance still has 90 base power, which gives you solid "neutral" coverage, especially after you set up. Sure, stuff like Crobat, Skarmory, Ferrothorn still walls you but how many of those do you face ingame? (Close to 0, in case you were wondering). After one or two Quiver Dances, neutral Giga Drain does massive damage while also healing you for a consistent amount of HP. Giga Drain that you get as early as level 26, which is also the recommended level for evolving. The 4/8 gym leader statement is incorrect as half of them (Roxie, Burgh) are faced before even getting her . from level 28 onwards Liligant can setup and sweep:
- Elesa
- Clay
- Not Drayden because of Dragon Tail which naturally counters setup pokes (not because grass is resisted. Flygon's neutral and Haxorus can't take two petal dances or even one after quiver dancing. Druddigon blows.)
- Water dude whose name I can't remember
- Most of Ghetsis
- Marshall
- Grimsley
- Caitlin
And pretty much anything specially based after one or two Quiver Dances.

Also, one you get for trade always has
- Own Tempo
- Max Special Attack IV
- Timid Nature

Everyone who voted for High (which would include me but I rated it so I don't count) has actually used it and knows that it literally plows through almost everything, resisted damage or not. It's way better than it looks on paper, I was using one just for the lulz (my grass choice usually being Sawsbuck or Ferrothorn, but my team was already too physical) and I ended up surprised.

 

[amittal12]

I think Night Slash shouldn't be mentioned in the notable moves for Zangoose as its technically an egg move and since breeding is not possible,it should be removed.

 

[azeem40]

I [3/3] upper middle for Lilligant. Sure it gets perfect "neutral" coverage, BUT it still needs to set up to have any considerable threat. It still has a lot of weaknesses, and there are a lot of types that it is hit super effective by in-game. Almost any physical attack will likely KO it quickly.

 

[azeem40]

Unfezant - Low Tier
Availability - Early
Notable Moves - Featherdance, Return, Quick Attack, U-Turn, Fly, Roost, Aerial Ace, Wing Attack
Stats - mediocre Atk, OK speed, horrible everything else

+ Found early
+ Has a good move in U-Turn in its arsenal.
- useless or near-useless in 5 of 8 gyms, horrible with team plasma, and horrible with the E4 (even Marshall pwns it)
- learns way too many special based attacks, which doesn't play well with its horrible SpA
- outclassed by Skarmory, Sigilyph, and almost every other Flying type, especially Braviary, which learns many more coverage moves.

 

[Tsumiki]

Unfezant has alreay been tiered, it's at Low.

Seviper - Low / Lower Middle Tier
Availability - Mid Late (Route 7)
Notable Moves - Poison Jab, Crunch, Coil, X-Scissor, Flamethrower, Aqua Tail, Dark Pulse, Giga Drain, Glare
Stats - Good Mixed Offenses. Mediocre Defensea and Slowish

+ Great Movepool with the Offensive stats to back it up
- Low Defenses makes Coil a hassle to setup
- Relies on Poison Tail for STAB until Poison Jab (Lv 42)
- Spe stat leaves much to be desired
- A good chunk of it's movepool obtained very late

 

[Excitable Boy]

wow, i cannot believe i didn't know that this thread existed

I'm still on the fence with Lilligant tbh. The fact that it requires setup to deal with some of the more common types (Poison and Steel ala Team Plasma) really cuts it down, no matter how easy the setup may be. It'd go straight to High if it had some form of coverage move, but as it stands, Mono-Grass just doesn't cut it for me. I won't cast a vote, but those are my two cents on Lilligant.

I'm using a Lilligant on Challenge Mode White 2 (that is, not even the trade), and it is brilliance, so I'll make the case here for it.

Setting up Quiver Dance on this thing is so easy, it's stupid. Lilligant's fast enough that you can Sleep Powder them immediately, and two or three QDs is generally all it takes to start ripping massive holes in basically everything, since after two QDs double SpA pretty much balances out half base power. Is it -ideal- against Poisons? No, it's not, but expecting it take them on reasonably is like expecting Conkeldurr to take on Psychics, or expecting Braviary to fight Rocks and Steels. Half of the Frigate is other things anyway (Krokoroks, Scraftys, Raticates, Watchogs, Liepards, to name a few), which Lilligant handles quite well anyway. It's not Lilligant's shining moment by any means, but tell that to Magnemite when it's in Driftveil City.

The point of QD is for the bosses. You don't need it for the mooks, they already die to Giga Drain/Petal Dance. Just throw Sleep Powder at something, set up on it, and go to town. Clay, for all his Excadrill, is swept. Even Skyla's Skarmory is set-up bait (well, on Normal Mode, anyway). Marlon is a joke. Colress can't do much to you, outside of Klinklang and Magnezone's Explosion, but Magneton is set-up bait and you should have Sleep Powder. Ghetsis's Cofagrigus is set-up bait (though that would mean having to fight Kyurem with Lilli). So are Shauntal's Cofagrigus and Caitlin's Musharna.

Lilligant stands tall and proud amongst the greats, even without a coverage move. Wherever there are weak special attacks being thrown around, she can Quiver Dance. Wherever Pokemon lack Insomnia, she can Quiver Dance. Wherever the AI can't phaze you, she can Quiver Dance.

Leech Seed is also cool.


Also, are the write-ups in the OP set in stone? Just skimming them, I'm seeing some questionable claims (Shadow Ball is good on Metagross, Roselia can't evolve until Opelucid), and some of the tierings look like they're more theorymon than practicemon (having used Conkeldurr, I would not rate it Top, that's fishizzle). For that matter, there doesn't appear to be any standard for what constitutes certain availability ratings; for example, Route 4 is labelled as everything from Early to Mid-Early to Midgame.

 

[TotalPotato]

I used Lilligant in Black (bred one early because I didn't want the exp. boost) and it was fantastic. Sure, its only real attacking move is Grass-type, but that's all it needs. It's so simple to use, too - you Sleep Powder, Quiver Dance a few times, and Giga Drain everything to death (which should restore most if not all of the HP Lilligant lost setting up). Even Pokémon that resist Giga Drain become less of an issue after sleep and setup. I didn't even use Petal Dance because a boosted Giga Drain was so strong and so useful for letting Lilligant survive. If that's not enough bulk for you, it has Synthesis or Leech Seed. It's got to go in the High tier for me.

Also, I know Alomomola has already been tiered, but putting it in the same tier as dross like Liepard? You're having a laugh. Its special defence is not as detrimental as the tier entry makes out because of its massive HP stat. Sure, it kills things slowly, but at least it can actually kill things unlike so much of the bottom tier. And when "kill things" becomes "kill most physical attackers in the entire game if you're patient", then it deserves to be at least Low.

Also, a mistake with Galvantula - the accuracy boost from Compoundeyes is multiplicative, not additive, so it will sometimes miss with Thunder (91% accuracy with Compoundeyes).

And I know I've mentioned this before, but the hate for two-turn moves in-game is baffling to me. You only have to wait about five extra seconds before they hit, for goodness' sake. Is that really enough to suggest weaker alternatives like Bulldoze and Aerial Ace?

 

[edonub]

The problem with Alomomola is that you don't get Toxic that early in the game and it has a pretty awful physical movepool, so until you can get Aqua Tail or Waterfall, you'll be stuck with Wake Up Slap and Aqua Jet fired off from a base 70 attack or something like that. If you want a bulky water use Jellicent, it has way more variety with Will-O-Wisp and usable Sp. Attack, better typing, better abilities, etc.

As for two-turns moves, Protect/Detect and setup moves are pretty much everywhere, making them not 100% reliable and sometimes counterproductive.
(X poke uses Dig -> Stupid annoying Boldore uses Iron Defense -> Dig does f*ck all -> Curses -> Throw your DS away -> Ragequit.) Otherwise, they're cool. And stupid Boldores are stupid.

For Galvantula, maybe it's not perfectly written, but it never says "thunder has perfect accuracy".
It says:
+It's Ability means it'll never suffer from misshax (= Even after Sand Attack/Double Team/similar move, a 100% accurate move will still avoid the "miss hax")
+Thunder + Compoundeyes is a fantastic combination (91% accurate move with 30% paralysis chance, 10 PP and 120 BP IS a wonderful combination, it doesn't say it cannot miss)

 

[TotalPotato]

Good point about Alomomola, I'd forgotten how late Toxic and Waterfall are in this game. I still think Bottom should be reserved for the absolute worst like Liepard and co., but I guess that's just my perspective.

The only things I can think of that use Protect or Detect against you in the entire game are the Patrat line, the Venipede line, the Pidove line, and Pelipper - maybe Zangoose and Absol too, I'm not sure (I don't remember ever facing a Tirtouga, Alomomola or Mienfoo that knew Protect or Detect). Most of those are early in the game, anyway. Iron Defense Boldore is annoying for Dig, for sure, but against most Pokémon, I think Fly and Dig are better than Aerial Ace and Bulldoze.

I thought the Galvantula entry implied that you never had to worry about an attack missing, and considering that you'd probably use Thunder as your main move, it seemed a bit misleading. Thunder + Compoundeyes is definitely a wonderful combination, though.

 

[Aurath8]

Also, are the write-ups in the OP set in stone? Just skimming them, I'm seeing some questionable claims (Shadow Ball is good on Metagross, Roselia can't evolve until Opelucid), and some of the tierings look like they're more theorymon than practicemon (having used Conkeldurr, I would not rate it Top, that's fishizzle). For that matter, there doesn't appear to be any standard for what constitutes certain availability ratings; for example, Route 4 is labelled as everything from Early to Mid-Early to Midgame.

Once we have all 140ish eligible pokemon tiered, then we'll review each one and neaten it all up. I expect that'll start in about 3 weeks.

Also, I know Alomomola has already been tiered, but putting it in the same tier as dross like Liepard? You're having a laugh. Its special defence is not as detrimental as the tier entry makes out because of its massive HP stat. Sure, it kills things slowly, but at least it can actually kill things unlike so much of the bottom tier. And when "kill things" becomes "kill most physical attackers in the entire game if you're patient", then it deserves to be at least Low.

Well, for much of the game Alomomola cannot do a thing. At all. Until Seaside Cave its movepool is Return, Aqua Jet, Wish and Wake-Up Slap. Granted, its Wishes are massive, but its not enough to be a viable battler. When it does finally get the ability to do damage, it takes about 5 turns per pokemon to defeat them. That is horribly inefficient compared to just about any other pokmon you could choose who typically 2 and occasionally 3KO opponents with little difficulty.