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1st Post + 1st Team [OU]

Discussion in 'Older Gen RMT' started by Thermatic, Mar 16, 2012.

  1. Thermatic

    Thermatic GIMP Geek

    Ok, I've been making a team on Soulsilver, that I intend to switch over to Black/White, so I put it in 5th Gen. Using the "A Basic Guide To Team Building" Layout to show my pokemon statistics, since it tells you everything you need to know, as well as my pokemon stats at Level 50, as they are now.

    Anyway, I'm pretty sure these pokemon are all OU. I have tried to combine pokemon so that overall, my team has no major weaknesses (except perhaps, rock...), however I'm not sure that the synergy is great overall and have one free slot, suggestions and improvements, as well as mentioning what is already decent with my team would be great.

    Also, the EV training was done carefully, but not precisely, so I'm only putting down approximate EV spread, which is definitely very close to what it has. Also, I haven't IV trained, but all pokemon are bred, not wild, so chances are they have at least ok IV's, it just means I stay away from Hidden Power. Anyways...

    ...Here it is:


    Gyarados (Bulky Physical Sweeper)
    Base Stats: 95 HP | 125 Atk | 79 Def | 60 SpA | 100 SpD | 81 Spe
    At Level 50: 179 HP l 179 Atk l 85 Def l 63 SpA l 110 SpD l 126 Spe
    Typing: Water / Flying
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 136 HP / 120 Attack / 252 Speed
    Moveset: Waterfall / Stone Edge / Ice Fang / Dragon Dance
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Intimidate
    Comments: He can take quite a few hits before dying with this spread, whilst being able to OHKO weaker targets with 1 dragon dance and 2HKO most others at this level, I find Gyarados to be the most reliable in the team, despite the electric weakness, which I address elsewhere. Ice Fang may seem weak, but dragon/flying types such as dragonite suffer immensely by its hand. I invested in speed so that after 1 dragon dance it can outrun nearly anything.

    Jolteon (Special Sweeper)
    Base Stats: 65 HP | 65 Atk | 60 Def | 110 SpA | 95 SpD | 130 Spe
    At Level 50: 131 HP l 64 Atk l 80 Def l 176 SpA l 125 SpD l 161 Spe
    Typing: Electric
    Nature: Modest
    EVs: 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
    Moveset: Thunderbolt / Charge Beam / Shadow Ball / Hyper Beam
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Volt Absorb
    Comments: Obviously included to accomadate for Gyarados' blatent Electric weakness, volt absorb restores health when switched in which makes it a great combo. However many pokemon that carry electric moves aren't electric types so it does take second guessing and scouting, making the strategy somewhat risky. Otherwise, Charge Beam Jolteon would be switched in to revenge kill, with a great chance of a Sp.Atk boost, along with life orb, Jolteon becomes a Sp.Atk beast when not walled by ground types, of course. Not sure if Hyper Beam is a great move choice, but offers a bit more damage than thunderbolt and a lot more than shadow ball, should a last hit scenario be encountered. Speed was already good, so instead of hyping it to the max, work on HP just enough to avoid OHKO's from various attackers without ground moves (I would hope).

    Gengar (Special Sweeper)
    Base Stats: 60 HP | 65 Atk | 60 Def | 130 SpA | 75 SpD | 110 Spe
    At Level 50: 136 HP l 72 Atk l 77 Def l 184 SpA l 84 SpD l 144 Spe
    Typing: Ghost / Poison
    Nature: Modest
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Moveset: Shadow Ball / Focus Blast / Destiny Bond / Dark Pulse
    Item: Focus Sash
    Ability: Levitate
    Comments: By the looks of things, his IV's aren't great, but still Gengar is awesome. Ground, Normal, Fight Immunities are very handy. can 2HKO anything (more or less) with super effective hit. Focus sash is handy against other sweepers with higher speed who would likely be killed in 1 by a super effective move by gengar, since gengar can't have spikes damage, the only major threat to focus sash is stealth rock. Thunderbolt would no doubt be a better choice than dark pulse but I don't have access to another thunderbolt TM currently, that will change soon. Focus Blast is inaccurate but has immensely fantastic coverage and same damage as STAB shadow ball.

    Skarmory (Phazer/Waller)
    Typing: Steel / Flying
    Base Stats: 65 HP | 80 Atk | 140 Def | 40 SpA | 70 SpD | 70 Spe
    At Level 50: 160 HP l 104 Atk l 145 Def l 48 SpA l 116 SpD l 88 Spe
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 252 HP / 120 SpD l 48 Def l 88 Spe
    Moveset: Roost / Roar / Spikes / Drill Peck
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    Comments: Again, Def IV's look precarious, even so, it can buffer most physical hits and weaker special ones with some EV investiment and roosting ability. Although STAB fire and electric does not bode well and skarmory can't setup at all then. Ideally my 6th pokemon also needs to be able to phaze (and lay stealth rock?) to further exploit skarmory's spike setup. Drill Peck over brave bird to avoid excess recoil damage which Skarmory could do without.

    Weavile (Physical Sweeper)
    Typing: Dark / Ice
    Base Stats: 70 HP | 120 Atk | 65 Def | 45 SpA | 85 SpD | 125 Spe
    At Level 50: 144 HP l 166 Atk l 70 Def l 54 SpA l 105 SpD l 190 Spe
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 252 Atk l 236 Spe l 20 SpD
    Moveset: Ice Shard / Pursuit / Low Kick / Sword Dance
    Item: Expert Belt
    Ability: Pressure
    Comments: Ok, as you can see, this Weavile is going to outspeed practically anything. Its atk is good but not amazing, 1 sword dance along with expert belt makes some of its low power moves very powerful indeed. Was comtemplating Ice Punch instead of Low Kick (or maybe instead of Ice Shard?) for extra power. Pursuit will hopefully hit switch outs hard. Slight EV investiment in Special Defence, hopefully could withstand a special attack in order to sword dance, but is still defensively very weak with its weaknesses (including stealth rock damage).

    Ok thats my team, 5 of them. Need 1 more member, something that gives me good coverage and synergy, obviously its not an amazing team and overall is quite fragile defensively, but it is my first team and I'd like to think it has potential.

    So suggestions for 6th team member, plus positive and negatives on my team so far would be handy, thanks!

    Attached Files:

    • 130.png
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  2. Hyper Beam sucks on pretty much 99% of all Pokémon except Porygon-Z. And even then you should consider something else like Tri Attack. I'm not sure what Jolteon's set should be since I don't use it but do not use Hyper Beam.

    If you can afford it, change Gengar's set to
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast
    - Thunderbolt / Giga Drain / Hidden Power [Ice] or Hidden Power [Electric]
    - Thunderboly / Giga Drain / Hidden Power [Ice] or Hidden Power [Electric]

    Gengar's set is pretty flexible and can be adjusted to fit your needs. Hidden Power [Ice] takes out Gliscor and heavily damages Multiscale Dragonite (I think it OHKO's if it's not at full HP). Thunderbolt or Hidden Power [Electric] is just something to hit Gyrados a bit harder with. Giga Drain can be a nasty surprise to Quagsires, Gastrodons, and Swamperts.
  3. Thermatic

    Thermatic GIMP Geek

    Ok thanks, didn't realise Gengar could learn giga drain. Since its IV's aren't perfect, I'll opt out dark pulse and destiny bond for giga drain and thunderbolt, perhaps.

    Problem with Jolteon is that its movepool is very shallow (it is electric type, after all..) so filling that 4th slot effectively is hard. Hyper Beam is a very mediocre choice for Jolteon, but with Hidden Power out of the picture (IV training requires time I don't have), I'm not sure what else to use.
  4. ChrisLan

    ChrisLan Member

    You kinda lack someone to take Special attacks for the team, maybe you could replace Weavile for a special wall? And adding Mamoswine, that way you could go with Taunt on Gyarados so it can provide some sort of stalling. If you want any movesets on the pokemon I said I'll be glad to provide them!.

    BTW, maybe you could go with Jolteon a little like this:

    - Thunderbolt
    - Shadow Ball
    - Protect/Thunder Wave
    - Volt Switch

    Volt Switch could allow you to get some of your checks and counters out.
  5. Eliteknight

    Eliteknight S.L.Y.

    if you want a gengar for competeitive play use sub disable if possible

    gengar@black sludge
    focus blast/focus miss
    shadow ball

    by far the best gengar it still hits hard yet annoys people so much
  6. Thermatic

    Thermatic GIMP Geek


    I guess protect could work since it would provide warning to an opponents attack, thunder wave is perhaps less useful on jolteon since it will likely outspeed anyway and is generally quite a fast team. Volt switch is also precarious since jolteons physical attack is horrendous. What special wall would you suggest? I would swap weavile but it does add coverage, so I'm just wondering what you would replace it with?


    Interesting.. I guess that provided I get the first hit and know that the opponent will repeat move / locked into choice item, that could break their offence. I guess I would have to re-breed my gengar though, since I don't think BF move tutors learn it to gengar? (I may be wrong). Whilst it is a good use for gengar, It does require some foresight.

    Black Sludge seems slightly reduntant since Gengar can't take hits anyway.
  7. ChrisLan

    ChrisLan Member

    Volt Switch is actually special. And Weavile is too fragile, he could be a nice revenge killer, but still you got him using Swords Dance. I really think Mamoswine could do the work there, he can kill the dragons, besides has great attack and is kinda bulky, also he can get Ice Shard which makes him a great revenge killer. For the sixth pokemon, maybe Chansey? o Blissey?

    From my experience I can tell you that most of the time there will be Stealth Rock or Spikes up, so Focus Sash on Genger could or couldn´t work. I don't think it is the best item for him. I would go with what elitknight said, since you'll be subbing, Black Sludge can get you one extra Sub, or two.
  8. Thermatic

    Thermatic GIMP Geek

    Oh, didn't realise that, seem to have envisioned a physical mark by it when I saw it on an Emolga. That is feasible then.
    Weavile is indeed fragile, but if I could set up swords dance on a psychic/ghost type it would probably be worth it. Sword Dance is far from compulsory, but it does give weavile the power to OHKO since without it, low base power moves aren't going to dent much.

    I see what your saying with Mamoswine, although I usually use pokemon that I like, instead of just what is good, and I'm definitely not a mamoswine fan. Still, maybe Donphan though? With Ice Shard.

    Blissey is the most obvious choice I guess, it is a beastly special wall. I'm not sure though, I was thinking of filling the last slot with a roar/whirlwind user, to exploit spikes, or maybe someone capable of stealth rock. to add entry hazard damage. If it was a sandstorm team I'd opt for shuckle, but its not, so I'm not sure.

    Surely spikes wouldn't effect gengar though? it has levitate. Although ofc stealth rock is a major issue without a rapid spinner, hence the donphan suggestion! It would have ground and ice coverage, + rapid spin and stealth rock? I guess the sludge is handy with subbing, hmm, I've never used substitute before, I always thought it was hard to predict if someone was going to status you unless they are blatent stalls, but I have toxic immunity. Even so, I could try that out. Thanks. :D
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2012
  9. arceus15

    arceus15 New Member

    IV's for skarmory and gengar are very meh IMO. You acknowledge it as well so I would look into that

    Also like this guy said hyper beam is a huge nono
  10. Psycho Cut

    Psycho Cut Well-Known Member

    For a 5th member, a spinner is absolutely neccessary. You have 2 pokemon weak to SR and one with a Focus Sash. The added benefit of Stealth Rocks would also be very useful. Therefore, I suggest a pokemon that can spin and lay down rocks. Looking at your team, Donphan would be the best fit
  11. Thermatic

    Thermatic GIMP Geek

    Thanks for the analysis. It was brilliant!

    I forgot about Signal Beam, Jolteon's movepool isn't quite as hopeless as I 1st thought.

    My Gengar is a little slow (for a Gengar, that is) so the nature you suggest has merit, however, I really wouldn't want his attack to be compromised much, since I feel that if he did any less damage, he wouldn't be able to sweep that well and even Special Effective moves won't OHKO most opponent's with compromised Sp.Atk.

    I do however very much agree with your Skarmory points. Thought I'd have Adamant Nature Skarmory to allow drill peck to do a little bit more but I agree, for Skarmory, a defense heavy nature is far more desirable. I should change that. Roar was just for laziness, since I hadn't bred it whirlwind, and practically no pokemon use soundproof. I know Brave Bird packs the punch, but still, I'd rather not have the recoil even with roost.

    Focus Sash for Weavile is actually quite viable, with swords dance, the extra attack bonus from life orb or expert belt in negliable anyway. Good idea. And yeah, Night Slash for extra solid STAB power would give me some reliability.

    Your Donphan suggestion pleases me, since on my last post, I also suggested Donphan (even though it is UU).

    Perhaps with this set?
    Ice Shard
    Stealth Rock
    Rapid Spin
    With 252 HP EVs and 136 Sp.D EVs + 120 Atk EVs?
    Careful Nature?
  12. Zachmac

    Zachmac Well-Known Member

    Special defense on Donphan is a waste. It won't be taking them anyway, and it's two weaknesses are usually special attacks. Go for a more physically defensive set. The moves look good, but you could also squeeze in roar if you want.
  13. Thermatic

    Thermatic GIMP Geek

    I thought I'd try to make it more reliable by giving it almost even defences but 60 base Sp.Defence is pretty hard to work with, I'll admit. If I do focus on defence and not Sp.D at all I guess I'll just have to avoid all Special Sweepers in their entireity. But if it means being a physical tank then It should be worth it.

    Roar is a good suggestion, especially since it'd be nice to have someone else who can phaze. It is hard to find a move suitable to swap it with though. Maybe Ice Shard since its not STAB and Weavile has it (assuming I keep Weavile on my team) but +1 is always value.
  14. Psycho Cut

    Psycho Cut Well-Known Member

    Well, Rapid Spin and SR are needed for the first two moves. From there, you could either go offensive, with Adamant and 252 HP / 252 Atk /4 Def, and give it Earthquake and Ice Shard; or go defensively, with Impsh and 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD, and give it Roar and Earthquake.
  15. Thermatic

    Thermatic GIMP Geek

    Since he needs to spin and set SR, I think I'd go for a more defensive spread, since a lot of my team is fragile a defensive spread is even more desirable. Although lack of reliable recovery is an issue.

    Thanks for the ideas.


    Actually, what do people think about Gliscor, instead of Jolteon?

    It resists electric completely, therefore supporting Gyarados just as well, but also walls people who might predict a switch and use earthquake, which Gliscor is also immune to.

    It would also add bulk to my team, although it would also leave my Sp.Attack capability somewhat poor.

    In which case perhaps an air balloon Jolteon?

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