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2018 Fanfiction Awards: Discussion and Planning Thread

Dragonfree

Just me
At the very least, I am still concerned that if "Best New Chaptered Fic" stays as it is, the odds are strong that, even with all the new fics by new authors this year, a longtime member who posted a new fic will still end up winning, anyway.
Yeah, I'm definitely still in favor of changing that award to be for new authors only rather than new fics by established authors. It's definitely more in the spirit of the award.

Altering the character limit for the scene awards could be done, although I think it was put in place a couple of years ago because some people were nominating really long scenes. Perhaps it could be increased somewhat while keeping it within manageable limits? As for the number of nominations, most of the scene awards last year had five nominations, which is perfectly respectable and more than for instance any of the author awards had - I really don't think that's an issue.
 

Ambyssin

Winter can't come soon enough
I forget? What's the current character limit? 2000 or 2500? I seem to remember I could fit, like, two or three paragraphs at best.
 

Negrek

Lost but Seeking
Haha, well, I wasn't sure you really wanted me to go off on a rant about all the categories I don't like, but sure, we can do that.

My number one is probably the scene awards, for pretty much all the reasons Ambyssin listed. I do always vote in them because as you say, they're convenient and I need more categories oh god, but I find them hell to nominate for and my general impression was there's not a lot of enthusiasm for them in general. I don't have time to go through past awards to see what the numbers are for them atm, though. I do appreciate that they give people a little taste of the fic in question, though, and the aforementioned way that they smooth voting! "Most Memorable Quote" is my own personal least fave, because oh god I'm supposed to pick out like ONE LINE from like an ENTIRE YEAR??? I will admit that for the other categories I couldn't make a strong argument why to keep, say, "most suspenseful" but drop "most funny" and not vice versa. I just don't like these ones, Sam I Am.

Best Description is so a subset of "Best Writing Style;" I find it amusing that it's on there for historical reasons, but don't see any real reason to keep it.

I already mentioned the various human/non-human awards and why I'm not a huge fan. This is especially true for the "supporting character" award, which I feel makes much more sense combined the way it is for "minor" and "funniest." I also wouldn't mind keeping the "main" category split, necessarily... one of those things where I'm in favor of tipping the balance towards "letting more fics get nominations" over "streamlining the awards." We have plenty of great characters out there, there's really no way you can just pick one anyhow, may as well let there be two a year. The other split categories I'm between "meh" and "bleh" on.

"Best Expansion of Canon" is a category I don't really understand how to use properly... I usually kind of treat it as "best setting, mark two." Like, I think it's probably intended for cool headcanon things, but in my experience those tend to either be significant enough to the setting that I would consider it for best setting anyway or not a major enough aspect of the fic for me to want to nominate the fic overall for it. Or maybe it's supposed to be getting more at AUs? We don't generally get many of those. (If we were going to add a "scene award," "best/coolest headcanon" would probably be the one I'd go for, but arrrrgh no more, not adding more!)

"Best Characterization in a Short Story" doesn't feel like it needs to be separate from "Best Character Development," but on the flip side I do appreciate that one-shots are often at a disadvantage there specifically. I would be curious to see how many got nominated for "Best Character Development" if we removed the split, though.

I'm not as big a fan of the "Most Dedicated" categories. It's nice to appreciate hustle and people who are working really hard, but at the same time these categories have always felt kind of out of place to me.

I'll also throw in there that I do still think we should do something different with "Best New Chapterfic," I'd just strongly prefer something that's number-of-categories neutral or negative. Also that I'm absolutely not against allowing time for people to catch up on reading/check out new stories! I just think that the current amount of time is more than necessary for that and causes the Awards to lose momentum.
 

Ambyssin

Winter can't come soon enough
As for the number of nominations, most of the scene awards last year had five nominations, which is perfectly respectable and more than for instance any of the author awards had - I really don't think that's an issue.
I disagree, because it's an instance of heavily skewed data. If you go back to 2017's list, you'll find the overwhelming majority of the nominations came from just four users: Negrek, Cutlerine, Chibi Pika, and Dramatic Melody. This in spite of the fact that, when all was said and done, we had something like 15 or 16 people submitting nominations. If only around a quarter of the participants are actually taking the time to fill out those categories, I'd argue that means the categories aren't well-liked and maybe folks wouldn't mind seeing them get removed.

That said, with all the new users (or users returning after 5-6 year absences), maybe we should wait and see what happens this year before making drastic, sweeping overhauls? Discussion's been quiet as people have been busy with NaNo, and now exams and projects. I'd hate to potentially alienate and/or turn away a bunch of new participants by eliminating categories they might actually like based on feedback from one or two long-time users. <.<;
 

Starlight Aurate

Just a fallen star
Dragonfree said:
The human/non-human character split was originally devised by me, I think, in a rather different fic landscape, before PMD fics etc. became quite so common. I envisioned the categories as celebrating the different sorts of qualities that go into writing human characters and non-human characters, on the basis that when considering non-human characters one would generally be thinking about stuff like portraying an inhuman perspective with alien ways of thinking. Today, a lot of the non-human categories are from PMD fics, where (following the canon itself) the Pokémon are pretty humanlike, and the distinction is kind of arbitrary at this point - which isn't inherently bad and could be done simply to be able to recognize more characters in the awards, but if we want to cut down on the number of categories, I'd be 100% good with eliminating the split.

This is my thought process, too. A lot of Pokemon seem like people with powers, especially in PMD fics imo. That said, I haven't read that many PMD fics and it's been a while since I have read any, but the way the Pokemons' thought processes and personalities were portrayed never really struck me as unique or different. I'd personally be fine with axing the human/non-human split.

Tbh I like the scene, though I see I'm the only one thus far who does, haha. Maybe it's because I haven't been a prolific reader lately, so the things I read that I really DO like stick out to me a lot and I tend to remember them fairly well. I guess I think of it as a way for an author who's not well-established or considered that great or whatever stick out and have a chance to shine if they do have a really well-written scene. Though, as Ambyssin pointed out, the scenes are still nominated from the same few well-established authors, so perhaps it doesn't quite fulfill that purpose... I'm not sure.
tl;dr: I personally like the scenes, but I understand why people want to cut them.

I do think that making a distinction for a best fic by a new writer so they can get more recognition and votes. I also think that making guidelines for the best established fics would be good. I can' think how at the moment, it's late and my fingers are slightly stiff from the cold...

Negrek said:
"Best Expansion of Canon" is a category I don't really understand how to use properly... I usually kind of treat it as "best setting, mark two." Like, I think it's probably intended for cool headcanon things, but in my experience those tend to either be significant enough to the setting that I would consider it for best setting anyway or not a major enough aspect of the fic for me to want to nominate the fic overall for it. Or maybe it's supposed to be getting more at AUs? We don't generally get many of those. (If we were going to add a "scene award," "best/coolest headcanon" would probably be the one I'd go for, but arrrrgh no more, not adding more!)
Tbh I never fully understood this either, and I was even nominated for it once lol. I guess I thought of it as a way of telling a story in the Pokemon world but with a different way from canon of how things happen... except I think that's what all Fan Fiction is. If what I wrote even made sense. But yes, I think a clarification on what this is supposed to be would help.

"Best Characterization in a Short Story" doesn't feel like it needs to be separate from "Best Character Development," but on the flip side I do appreciate that one-shots are often at a disadvantage there specifically. I would be curious to see how many got nominated for "Best Character Development" if we removed the split, though.
Mmmm I personally like this split. It gives more light to one-shots and I think that characterizing someone in a short story is a different skill than developing a character over a long period of time.

Also that I'm absolutely not against allowing time for people to catch up on reading/check out new stories! I just think that the current amount of time is more than necessary for that and causes the Awards to lose momentum.
Agreed. I tend to forget about the Awards because they take almost half a year. I feel like every year, people ask for deadline extensions and so we get them. But does it really help the process? Do the people who do get it their nominations/votes in due to the extended deadline count for a large part of the population or only a small part?

Ambyssin said:
That said, with all the new users (or users returning after 5-6 year absences), maybe we should wait and see what happens this year before making drastic, sweeping overhauls? Discussion's been quiet as people have been busy with NaNo, and now exams and projects. I'd hate to potentially alienate and/or turn away a bunch of new participants by eliminating categories they might actually like based on feedback from one or two long-time users. <.<;
I think now would be as good of a time to make changes as any. What with the new users and old people returning, maybe making the Awards more streamlined/dynamic would encourage more voting from them as well.
 

Dragonfree

Just me
I forget? What's the current character limit? 2000 or 2500? I seem to remember I could fit, like, two or three paragraphs at best.
The current character limit for scenes in 2500. That's definitely more than two or three paragraphs, unless they're particularly chunky paragraphs! You can check out last year's nominees here, to get an idea of how much text that is. (Other people, please feel free to opine on whether you'd like to increase the character limit!)

I disagree, because it's an instance of heavily skewed data. If you go back to 2017's list, you'll find the overwhelming majority of the nominations came from just four users: Negrek, Cutlerine, Chibi Pika, and Dramatic Melody. This in spite of the fact that, when all was said and done, we had something like 15 or 16 people submitting nominations. If only around a quarter of the participants are actually taking the time to fill out those categories, I'd argue that means the categories aren't well-liked and maybe folks wouldn't mind seeing them get removed.
You're right, and that is a fair point. It's pretty surprising to me; scenes that stick out to me are some of the first things I think of when I think of the fanfics I read! But obviously if the average member has trouble thinking of particular scenes to nominate, those awards aren't quite as useful as I thought.

That said, with all the new users (or users returning after 5-6 year absences), maybe we should wait and see what happens this year before making drastic, sweeping overhauls? Discussion's been quiet as people have been busy with NaNo, and now exams and projects. I'd hate to potentially alienate and/or turn away a bunch of new participants by eliminating categories they might actually like based on feedback from one or two long-time users. <.<;
To be absolutely clear, of course we're not going to jump and remove a bunch of categories based purely on one or two people's feedback! If it turned out we got a broad consensus that nobody actually likes categories X and Y, then it might be worth considering deleting those categories, but one or two people do not a consensus make, and one person not liking a category doesn't automatically put it up for deletion. I'd love to hear more people's thoughts on whether the awards would be better with fewer categories in general, and which particular categories people enjoy and which they like less - please don't feel like you'd be saying this is what we should do now so much as just giving a way for us to gauge overall interest in that kind of streamlining and what awards would be most expendable if we were to start considering something like that. (It's pretty late at this point, so if any cutting happens now, it'd almost definitely just be one or two categories, or combining some; any major streamlining would probably be deferred to next year's discussion, where we could set out with that as a topic and everyone could have more time to have their say about it.)

"Best Expansion of Canon" is a category I don't really understand how to use properly... I usually kind of treat it as "best setting, mark two." Like, I think it's probably intended for cool headcanon things, but in my experience those tend to either be significant enough to the setting that I would consider it for best setting anyway or not a major enough aspect of the fic for me to want to nominate the fic overall for it. Or maybe it's supposed to be getting more at AUs? We don't generally get many of those. (If we were going to add a "scene award," "best/coolest headcanon" would probably be the one I'd go for, but arrrrgh no more, not adding more!)
Best Expansion of Canon is described as "The story that best expands upon the Pokémon universe or characters." So stuff like headcanons, but also, say, interesting original character studies of canon characters - all in all, something that makes you see the canon in a new light, which I really wouldn't say has to have anything to do with the setting. I dunno, it makes sense to me? Am I alone? (Not a rhetorical question! If a category is confusing and overall people don't feel sure what it means or what to nominate for it, that's worth knowing and discussing!)

I'm not as big a fan of the "Most Dedicated" categories. It's nice to appreciate hustle and people who are working really hard, but at the same time these categories have always felt kind of out of place to me.
Mmm, I definitely disagree on this one. I like to be able to give a real nod to the people who are just contributing a lot to the forums, even if they're not considered "the best". If nothing else, having an award for it encourages participation.

Though, as Ambyssin pointed out, the scenes are still nominated from the same few well-established authors, so perhaps it doesn't quite fulfill that purpose... I'm not sure.
I think you may have misread - the scenes are by lots of different authors, but only a few different people nominated scenes for the scene awards. So it's not that they're failing to draw attention to a variety of authors, it's that a lot of people are refraining from making nominations for those categories.
 

Negrek

Lost but Seeking
Well, in the next couple of days would it be possible to come to some final decision on at least the fate of the "best new chapterfic" and potential "best epic" categories?
 

Dragonfree

Just me
For this year we will switch the best chaptered fic/best new chaptered fic awards out for best by an established/new author, but we feel that the other category changes that were suggested here are better left for more thorough discussion next year.
 
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