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5th Gen Breeding/Egg Moves FAQ & Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Pokémon Generation V Discussion' started by bobandbill, Sep 27, 2010.

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  1. bobandbill

    bobandbill Winning Smile Staff Member Super Mod

    As suggested, this thread is for discussion on breeding Pokemon in 5th gen and any new egg move changes/chains that now exist in this gen. Typically threads like this get made for a new gen/game, so here is this gen's edition.

    Every so often I'll edit info in - I suppose the general aim is to have it look something like the 4th gen breeding/egg move faq thread here: http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=261577

    The following comes from that thread as well, written by TotalPotato. It's 4th gen info though so it will need some changing up as some additions/changes to it may have been made to 5th gen.

    [1] Introduction
    [2] What's so great about breeding?
    [3] How do I breed my Pokémon?
    [3a] Pokémon that give birth to an offspring of a different species
    [3b] Ditto
    [4] Incenses
    [5] Egg Groups
    [5a] Genderless Egg Group
    [5b] Unbreedable Egg Group
    [5c] Manaphy and Phione
    [6] Passing down moves
    [6a] Volt Tackle
    [6b] Chain Breeding
    [6c] Breeding Bridges
    [6d] Smeargle
    [7] Illegal move combinations
    [8] Passing down IVs
    [9] Techniques for better breeding
    [10] Frequently Asked Questions
    [11] The big list of Egg Moves

    [1] Introduction

    This thread is all about breeding. If you are a Trainer who is new to breeding and wants to know how to breed, what the benefits of breeding are and so forth, you will be eased into the process. If you are a veteran Trainer, there will most likely be something you for you to learn here too, as the 4th Generation of Pokémon games has introduced new Pokémon, new moves, new restrictions and new opportunities when it comes to breeding.

    [2] What's so great about breeding?

    Breeding Pokémon has several advantages. Here are some reasons as to why you would like to breed your Pokémon:

    1. Complete your Pokédex. Some Pokémon can only be obtained in the 4th Generation by breeding. Taillow, the pre-evolution to Swellow, is just one of the Pokémon exclusively available through breeding in the 4th Generation (without trading).

    2. Transfer good IVs. An IV (Individual Value) is a number from 0-31 assigned to a particular stat, which determines how high the stats of your Pokémon can get. By breeding your Pokémon, it is possible to pass some of these IVs onto another.

    3. Learn new moves. This is arguably the greatest incentive to breed. Most Pokémon have certain moves that they can only learn by breeding - called Egg Moves - many of which can be useful on their movesets. With the dawn of Wi-Fi battling, breeding for unique moves has become all the more important in gaining a vital advantage that could lead to victory.

    4. Conserve TMs. Some TMs can only be used once, so using them only when absolutely necessary is important if you want the same TM move on multiple Pokémon. TM moves can be passed down by breeding just like Egg Moves can simply by breeding a Pokémon that learns the TM move naturally with another Pokémon. This is useful for saving the TM of a great move like Earthquake.

    [3] How do I breed my Pokémon?

    To breed your Pokémon, you must leave them in the Daycare Centre. In Pokémon Diamond, Pearl and Platinum, this is located in Solaceon City. In Pokémon Heart Gold and Soul Silver, this is located on Route 34. For two Pokémon to breed, a male Pokémon must breed with a female Pokémon, and the two Pokémon must be in the same Egg Group (the sole exception to this rule being Ditto). The female determines the species of the offspring, which will be at the lowest evolutionary level of the species (unless an Incense is required to reach the lowest evolutionary level of the species).

    If you have satisfied the above conditions, the Daycare Man outside will turn to face the right-hand side of the screen if he has an egg for you. The speed at which the old man outside the Daycare Centre will obtain an egg depends on two factors: the Pokémon's species and the Pokémon's ID numbers. If he does not have an egg, he will instead give you a message which gives you an indication on how quickly he will obtain an egg:
    "The two seem to get along very well." - the two Pokémon are the same species and have different ID numbers. They will breed quickly.
    "The two seem to get along." - the two Pokémon either are the same species and have the same ID number, or are not the same species and have different ID numbers. They will breed at a medium rate.
    "The two don't seem to like each other much." - the two Pokémon are not the same species and have the same ID number. They will breed slowly.
    "The two prefer to play with other Pokémon than each other." - the two Pokémon cannot breed and will not produce an egg. They may be the same gender, in different Egg Groups, or one/both Pokémon may belong to the Genderless or Unbreedable Egg Group.

    At the moment the Daycare Man receives the Egg, most of the characteristics of the Pokémon inside will be set. Its gender, ability, and nature will be set; but its IVs are only set when you take the Egg from him. It takes a set number of steps to hatch an egg, and this can be checked by looking at that Pokémon's entry on the Serebii Dex. When an egg hatches, your new Pokémon will be at Level 1.

    [3a] Pokémon that give birth to an offspring of a different species

    There are two Pokémon that have an equal chance of giving birth to an offspring of a different species. Nidoran-F has an equal chance of giving birth to another Nidoran-F and a Nidoran-M, while Illumise has an equal chance of giving birth to another Illumise and a Volbeat.

    [3b] Ditto

    Ditto can breed with any Pokémon (except those in the Unbreedable Egg Group and other Ditto), and produces an offspring of the same species as the Pokémon Ditto bred with.

    [4] Incenses

    An Incense is an item that can be attached to certain Pokémon in order to enable them to breed to produce a baby Pokémon. These Pokémon often have different Level-up moves and extra Egg Moves to their evolutions. Below is a list of all Pokémon that produce a Pokémon that is different from usual while holding an Incense upon breeding:

    Chansey/Blissey (Luck Incense) -> Happiny
    Mr. Mime (Odd Incense) -> Mime Jr.
    Snorlax (Full Incense) -> Munchlax
    Marill/Azumarill (Sea Incense) -> Azurill
    Sudowoodo (Rock Incense) -> Bonsly
    Wobbuffet (Lax Incense) -> Wynaut
    Mantine (Wave Incense) -> Mantyke
    Roselia/Roserade (Rose Incense) -> Budew
    Chimecho (Pure Incense) -> Chingling

    [5] Egg Groups

    All Pokémon belong to at least one Egg Group (some belong to two). The Egg Groups are loosely based on the Pokémon's appearance. There are a total of 15 Egg Groups, 2 of which we shall look at in more detail because of the special conditions attached to them. The Egg Group/s each Pokémon belongs to can be checked on the Serebii Dex.
    Any two Pokémon of opposite gender who share an Egg Group can breed, no matter how silly it may seem. For instance, Diglett, sharing the title of the smallest Pokémon to exist (a minuscule 0'08" tall) belongs to the Ground Egg Group, and Wailord, the largest Pokémon to exist (a colossal 47'07" tall) belongs to the Ground and the Water 2 Egg Groups. The two Pokémon each share an Egg Group, and so they can breed, despite the immense difference in size.

    [5a] Genderless Egg Group

    The Pokémon in this group have no gender (but are not legendary), and so cannot pass or receive any Egg Moves. They are capable of breeding with only one Pokémon - Ditto.

    [5b] Unbreedable Egg Group

    The Pokémon in this group include legendary Pokémon, baby Pokémon, Nidorina and Nidoqueen. These Pokémon cannot breed with any other Pokémon - not even Ditto.

    [5c] Manaphy and Phione

    Unlike other legendary Pokémon, Manaphy can breed, but only with Ditto. The egg produced when leaving the two Pokémon in the Daycare Centre hatches into Phione, a weaker version of Manaphy with a smaller movepool. Phione does not evolve into Manaphy, but it can also breed with Ditto to produce further Phione.

    [6] Passing down moves

    By breeding two Pokémon strategically, moves can be passed down. There are four different types of moves that can be learned upon hatching:

    Birth Moves: These moves are learned at birth.
    Level-up Moves: Moves that the hatched Pokémon can learn by levelling up can also be learned at birth. If both parents know the Level-up Move, it can be bred onto the offspring, unless the lowest form of the evolutionary line cannot learn the move - for instance, two Rapidash with Megahorn cannot breed to produce a Ponyta with Megahorn, since Megahorn is not a Level-up move for Ponyta.
    Egg Moves: The moves are passed on to the offspring by the father. If the father knows the Egg Move, it can be bred onto the offspring.
    TM/HM Moves: These moves are bred onto Pokémon in the same way that Egg Moves are. When trying to pass TM moves down, you must make sure the lowest form of the evolutionary line can learn the TM move - for instance, Marshtomp and Swampert can learn Stealth Rock by TM, but Mudkip cannot, so Stealth Rock cannot be bred onto the Mudkip line.

    If a lot of moves are bred onto a Pokémon, Birth Moves can be pushed out of the hatchling's starting moveset. For instance, if a male Blaziken with the moves Fire Punch, Double Kick, Blaze Kick and Sky Uppercut was bred with a female Chimchar, the baby Chimchar would have Leer, Fire Punch, Double Kick and Blaze Kick as its starting moveset. In this way, Chimchar's Scratch (a Birth Move) has been pushed out of the moveset by the other Egg Moves.

    If a male Pokémon breeds with a Ditto, Ditto will act as a female of that species. In this way, a male Pokémon can pass Egg Moves down to an offspring of its own species. Since Hitmonlee, Hitmonchan and Hitmontop are always male, breeding with Ditto is the only way to pass Egg Moves down to Tyrogue.

    [6a] Volt Tackle

    Volt Tackle is a special Egg Move for Pichu. If a female Pikachu or Raichu breeds with another Pokémon while holding a Light Ball (the Light Ball can also be held by the male if you're breeding with a male Pikachu or Raichu), the Pichu offspring will know Volt Tackle upon hatching.

    [6b] Chain Breeding

    Chain Breeding is taking multiple steps to breed one or more moves onto the Pokémon of your choice. Let's say you wanted a Goldeen (Egg Group: Water 2) with Haze and Sleep Talk as Egg Moves.

    First, you would get a Male Whismur/Loudred/Exploud (Egg Groups: Monster/Ground) that knows Sleep Talk. You would then breed him with a Female Wooper/Quagsire (Egg Groups: Water 1/Ground) until you got a male Wooper.
    You would then raise this Wooper to Level 43 to teach him Haze. Then, you would breed him with a female Remoraid/Octillery (Egg Groups: Water 1/Water 2) until you to got a Male Remoraid, in order to get the moves into the Water 2 Egg Group.
    Finally, you would breed this Remoraid with a female Goldeen/Seaking to get a Goldeen with Haze and Sleep Talk. It may seem long and complex, but with practice, you can make your own chains using the Serebii Attackdex, or you could just ask in this thread!

    Simplified, the above chain looks like this:

    Whismur (Sleep Talk at Level 41) -> Wooper (Haze at Level 43) -> Remoraid -> Goldeen

    [6c] Breeding Bridges

    To breed some moves onto certain Pokémon, it is sometimes necessary to cross over from one Egg Group to another, using a breeding bridge. In the above example, we had to use Remoraid as a breeding bridge to get Sleep Talk and Haze from the Water 1 Egg Group into the Water 2 Egg Group. Below is a list of all the breeding bridges in the 4th generation:

    Monster/Water 1: Squirtle, Slowpoke, Lapras, Totodile, Mudkip
    Monster/Ground: Nidoran-M, Rhyhorn, Mareep, Whismur
    Monster/Plant: Bulbasaur, Chikorita, Tropius, Turtwig, Snover
    Monster/Dragon: Charmander, Treecko, Gible
    Water 1/Ground: Psyduck, Seel, Wooper, Delibird, Spheal, Piplup, Bidoof, Buizel
    Water 1/Flying: Wingull
    Water 1/Water 2: Remoraid, Relicanth
    Water 1/Fairy: Marill
    Water 1/Bug: Surskit
    Water 1/Water 3: Omanyte, Kabuto, Corsola, Corphish
    Water 1/Plant: Lotad
    Water 1/Indeterminate: Shellos
    Water 1/Dragon: Horsea, Dratini, Feebas
    Ground/Fairy: Pikachu, Snubbull, Skitty, Mawile, Pachirisu
    Ground/Flying: Farfetch'd
    Ground/Water 2: Wailmer
    Ground/Plant: Seedot
    Ground/HumanShape: Spinda, Chimchar, Buneary, Lucario
    Ground/Dragon: Ekans, Seviper
    Flying/Fairy: Togetic
    Flying/Dragon: Swablu
    Water 2/Dragon: Magikarp
    Fairy/Plant: Hoppip, Shroomish, Roselia, Cherubi
    Fairy/Mineral: Snorunt
    Fairy/Indeterminate: Castform
    Bug/Plant: Paras
    Bug/Water 3: Skorupi
    Bug/HumanShape: Volbeat
    Plant/HumanShape: Cacnea

    If you want to see how all the Egg Groups connect to one another, take a look at this Breeding Circle made by Psychic Politoed!

    [6d] Smeargle

    Smeargle can make many complex breeding chains a lot easier. It exclusively learns Sketch multiple times, which can be used to permanently teach Smeargle any Pokémon move. This allows Smeargle to cut out a lot of steps in certain breeding chains involving two or more moves. Smeargle is in the Ground Egg Group.

    [7] Illegal move combinations

    This term is often used to describe a combination of Egg Moves that cannot exist on a certain Pokémon. It has nothing to do with cheating devices or hacking. For example, the move combination of Tickle and Superpower is illegal on Turtwig, because none of the Pokémon that learn Tickle by level-up can learn Superpower by breeding and vice versa.

    [8] Passing down IVs

    When you breed two Pokémon, there is a chance that some IVs from either parent could be passed down. The hatchling inherits three IVs for different stats from their parents, and the other three are randomly generated. Let's say you wanted a Machop with 31 IVs (the maximum possible value) in the Attack stat. The chances for the Machop to be born with 31 Attack IVs would be greatly increased by breeding your Female Machop with a Male Buneary that you have in your PC that happens to have 31 IVs in Attack. However, HP and Defense IVs are more difficult to pass down than IVs in other stats (this is because the hatchling's first inherited IV is one from any of the parents' stats, the second is from any of the parents' stats excluding HP, and the third is from any of the parents' stats excluding HP and Defense).

    To calculate your Pokémon's IVs, use MetalKid's IV calculator.

    [9] Techniques for better breeding

    There are ways in the 4th generation in which breeding can be eased or sped up:

    1. If you are breeding two Pokémon, and the mother/Ditto is holding an Everstone, there is a 50% chance of the offspring having the same nature as the mother/Ditto. When breeding a female Pokémon and a Ditto, the Everstone must be on the Ditto for this technique to work. This is a very useful technique when trying to breed for a Pokémon with a particular nature.

    2. If you have a Pokémon with Flame Body or Magma Armor in your party while you are carrying an egg around, the egg will hatch in 1/2 - 2/3 the usual time. This effect is not cumulative - having two Pokémon with Flame Body or Magma Armor in your party will not make the egg hatch in a 1/4 - 4/9 of the usual time.

    3. A Pokémon's nature and ability can be checked before it hatches from its Egg! Simply place the Egg in a PC Box. Press R to move to an adjacent Box, and make sure that there is a Pokémon in this space. Under the Pokémon's name, different aspects of the Pokémon will be scrolled through in a rectangle (in order, these aspects are: Item, Type, Nature, Ability). Let it scroll through each aspect a few times until you're sure of the time interval between each aspect.
    Now, let's say you wanted to check the nature of the Pokémon in the Egg. Put the pointer over the Pokémon in the adjacent Box. Just before it scrolls from type to nature, press L to move back to the Box containing the Egg. While you are moving from Box to Box, the nature of the Pokémon in the Egg should appear in the rectangle! This process can help you to discard Eggs with an undesirable nature or ability.
    Note: This trick does not work in Pokémon Platinum.

    [10] Frequently Asked Questions

    Q: My Pokémon should be able to breed, but when I put them in the Daycare Centre, the Daycare Man tells me they can't breed. What's the problem?
    A: If the message is "The two don't seem to like each other much", then there is no problem. Just be patient, and the Daycare Man will give you an egg. It's just a misleading message.
    If the message is "The two prefer to play with other Pokémon than each other", the two Pokémon are incompatible. If the two Pokémon have the same gender, are in different Egg Groups, or if one/both Pokémon belong to the Genderless or Unbreedable Egg Group (remember that the Unbreedable Egg Group includes all baby Pokémon), they cannot breed.

    Q: My male Sneasel knows Pursuit, and my female Sneasel knows Ice Punch, but when I breed them together, the offspring only knows Scratch, Leer, Taunt and Pursuit. Why doesn't it know Ice Punch? (Sneasel, Ice Punch and Pursuit are just examples here - this question covers a whole bunch of similar scenarios)
    A: Remember that only males can pass down moves. The mother determines the species, while the father determines the Egg Moves learned. If you want your Sneasel to have both Ice Punch and Pursuit, they need to be on the same male (in this example, teach a male Smeargle both moves using Sketch, or breed Pursuit onto a Sneasel and teach it Ice Punch via the Platinum Move Tutor).

    Q: Can Move Tutor moves be passed down by breeding?
    A: Unless they also happen to be Egg Moves for that Pokémon, no.

    Q: How do I get a Pichu with Volt Tackle?
    A: This works a little differently from other Egg Moves. In this case, all you need to do is give the Pikachu or Raichu (either gender if you're using two of them) you're using to breed a Light Ball to hold. Upon hatching, the Pichu formed will know Volt Tackle.

    Q: Why isn't the Everstone trick working?
    A: First of all, if you're breeding with a Ditto, make sure the Everstone is on the Ditto. It has to be on the Ditto to work, even if you're breeding it with a female Pokémon. If you're not using a Ditto, make sure the Everstone's on the female Pokémon.
    If that doesn't help, make sure that you're not just hatching the same egg over and over. From the moment the Daycare Man receives the Egg, everything about it except the IVs are set.
    If it still isn't working, are one of your Pokémon from a different region copy of Diamond or Pearl? If so, the Everstone trick may not work - try again with two Pokémon from the same language version.
    If after all that, it still isn't working, you've just got terrible luck. Make sure you're using the tricks outlined in [9] to speed things up, and just keep plugging away - your luck may turn around with persistence!

    [11] The big list of Egg Moves

    This list tells you the shortest way to get any Egg Move onto any Pokémon. There may be longer ways to breed the move if you only have access to certain Pokémon, but these are not listed here as there are many, many possibilities for longer breeding chains. You should either ask here or work out a chain yourself if you need a longer chain. You may want to use Ctrl+F to find the Egg Moves for the Pokémon you want.

    The Pokémon are arranged into four sections depending on which region they first appeared in. They are then placed in numerical order in the National Dex, with only the lowest form of the Pokémon being shown for breeding Egg Moves onto. Pokémon that are born when the mother is holding an Incense are listed together with their evolution, as the Egg Move lists for most of these Pokémon differ slightly within the species (for instance, Budew has Extrasensory as an Egg Move, whereas Roselia does not). Azurill and Marill are listed separately as they both learn completely different Egg Moves.

    In the breeding chains, the lowest form of the species of Pokémon that learns the necessary Egg Move is listed. However, the evolved forms are listed for moves that their pre-evolutions do not learn (such as Empoleon, being the only member of its family who learns Aqua Jet).

    For any Pokémon in the Ground Egg Group, Smeargle can also be used to pass down the move, although he is not listed in any of the chains (unless using Smeargle is the only way to pass down a move).

    The Egg Groups the Pokémon belong to are listed in brackets next to the name of the Pokémon. To find out what level a Pokémon learns a move at, use the Serebii Dex. "N/A" next to an Egg Move means that although the move is listed as an Egg Move, there is currently no possible breeding chain for it in the 4th generation. In these cases, a 3rd generation alternative is listed next to the move.

    If you have any questions about breeding or Egg Moves, feel free to post in this thread.

    With that, post away! Once I make a number of posts that shall be edited later with egg move info!
  2. bobandbill

    bobandbill Winning Smile Staff Member Super Mod

    Reserve post for editing in info later the first!
  3. bobandbill

    bobandbill Winning Smile Staff Member Super Mod

    Reserve post for editing in info later the second!
  4. bobandbill

    bobandbill Winning Smile Staff Member Super Mod

    Reserve post for editing in info later the third!
  5. bobandbill

    bobandbill Winning Smile Staff Member Super Mod

    Reserve post for editing in info later the fourth!
  6. bobandbill

    bobandbill Winning Smile Staff Member Super Mod

    Reserve post for editing in info later the fifth!
  7. bobandbill

    bobandbill Winning Smile Staff Member Super Mod

    Reserve post for editing in info later the sixth hopefully that should be enough!
  8. ForeverFlame

    ForeverFlame WATER TRUMPETS

    I heard on Smogon that Dream World abilities can be passed on by breeding. Is this true?
  9. CyndaquilRules

    CyndaquilRules Well-Known Member

    Oh I hope not. That'd be rather displeasing..
  10. Auraninja

    Auraninja I'm ready to Smash

    I would like to show my 5th Generation Breeding Circle.


    It is a prototype because I (or someone else) need to make extra sure that it is 100% accurate. I do think it is accurate though, but the way to check would be to list all of the interchanges between groups accordingly with the Pokemon that belong to such groups.

    Also, I did a study of what breeding moves have to be taught to a male Pokemon by an obsolete TM in either the 3rd or 4th generation. Then, you have to transport it to the fifth generation and breed it with a female fifth generation Pokemon.

    This list is incomplete, but here is what I found so far:
    Water Pulse

    Teach it to male Snorunt/Glalie through TM.

    Dark Pulse

    Teach it to male Ekans/Arbok, Gyarados, Seviper through TM.

    Skill Swap

    Teach it to a male Natu/Xatu through TM.

    Teach it to a male Abra/Kadabra,Alakazam, Drowzee/Hypno, Mr. Mime, Spinda through TM.

    Shock Wave

    Teach it to a male Koffing/Weezing, Grimer/Muk, Lapras, Dratini/Dragonair/Dragonite, Wingull/Pelipper, Gulpin/Swalot, Castform, Shuppet/Banette, Chimecho, Bidoof/Bidarel, Drifloon/Drifblim, Misdreavus/Mismagius, Spiritomb, Ralts (family) through TM.

    Stealth Rock

    Teach it to a male Chimchar/Monferno/Infernape through TM.

    Endure/Captivate/ Sleep Talk/ Natural Gift

    Any fifth generation Pokemon that can learn the move from breeding can learn it from practically any male Pokemon that is from their breeding group through TM.

    Credits to Jigglychu for pointing out the obsolete TMs to begin with.

    Also know that the Pokemon in the Ground breeding group are excluding because of trans-Smeargleing. I may work on the tutor moves from the past games as well.

    Well, those are my current contributions.

    Edit: I believe I have completed the obsolete TM breeding list. You can VM me in case I made mistakes.
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2010
  11. Rakurai

    Rakurai Well-Known Member

    It is. I've heard that the female is the one who passes down the ability, though. Which is going to make female starters even greater in demand then ever.
  12. Auraninja

    Auraninja I'm ready to Smash

    It appears that Shandera can only learn Heat Wave by breeding it with a male Slugma/Magcargo that learned it through a move tutor. What I find odd though is that Slugma/Magcargo have Heat Wave listed as an egg move, which I don't see how it can inherit since it is just in the Indeterminate breeding group. I guess this would confirm that some egg moves can only be obtained if you teach the male Pokemon a tutor move in the 4th generation. I may upgrade the list I was working on.

    If you would like to help, you can send me a VM.
  13. Hejiru

    Hejiru Rev up those fryers

    Why? Sounds great to me. That way Pokemon can have both a Dream ability and an egg move.
  14. DubaiESP

    DubaiESP Member

    Will I have Zorua with Extrasensory If I put him with Nuzleaf? And Komatama with PsicoCut If I put him with Gallade?
  15. O Fortuna

    O Fortuna Velut luna.

    Interestingly enough, it has been an egg move for Slugma since Ruby and Sapphire were released, but it was not given a way for it to learn the move until Platinum.
  16. CyndaquilRules

    CyndaquilRules Well-Known Member

    Because it takes out some of the fun of the dream world.

    I don't play competetively by the way.
  17. Auraninja

    Auraninja I'm ready to Smash

    First one, yes, they are both in the Ground breeding group (not to be confused with the Ground type). The second one, no, Komatama is in the Humanshape group and Gallade is in the Indeterminate.

    I noticed that it was an egg move, but like you said, there was no way it could get that move until a move tutor.
  18. magikot

    magikot Well-Known Member

    Even if you don't play competitively being able to breed pokemon with rare or useful abilities and egg moves (such as Shadow Tag Shanderra and Hydration Wish Vaporeon) for competitive players can help you fill up your pokedex, shiny dex, or event dex if you're more interested in collecting.
  19. DubaiESP

    DubaiESP Member

    Thanks, then I will have to put Komatama with Medicham I guess.
  20. Mario with Lasers

    Mario with Lasers Unfazeable

    IIRC, Slugma/Magcargo from Pokémon XD had it, just like Razor Wind Scyther.
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