A Battle by Any Other Name! (829)

[p96822]

Come guys it was a team effort and Serena did break the machine today and team up with Ash and her rival to blast Team Rocket off not only Ash and Pikachu

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

This episode was kinda funny imo; Millefeui and Serena's rivalry was kinda intense there, spiced up the episode quite a bit. Slurpuff was also somewhat interesting; and I wonder what exactly was it that compelled the Swirlix to get at Serena. Still, nonetheless, it was nice to see Poke Puffs, and Swirlix and Slurpuff were fun too. Overall a neat episode, looking forward to more episodes in the future.

 

[PokemonNation2000]

Didn't like it, honestly: TR were the worst of it, though (gee, that wasn't predictable). Serena and her rival were okay, I guess: nothing positive, yet nothing negative, either-- definitely the strongest characters in this episode, though, make no mistake.

Ash was just kinda there to be there, IMO: boring and flat. Clemont was even more boring and predictable than Ash for once, and that's saying something. Bonnie was Bonnie, I guess. *Yawns*

This is the kind of episode you just go "meh" with after watching it in my case, I guess.

 

[Navin]

But A: It wasnt Ash's plan, in fact he didnt even know what to do until CLEMONT gave him the plan and B: It was still SERENA who freed the Pokemon, ergo SHE WAS THE ONE WHO ACHIEVED THE DESIRED EFFECT. Ash was just helping out like he always does.

Like I said above, Ash's act overshadowed anything the others did. And his physical struggle is what caused that mecha's engine to overheat. Only after this did Serena order Fennekin to use Flamethrower, which pales in comparison. In fact, Clemont did more quite frankly for giving Ash the plan to jump like a lunatic onto the suctioner. I'm sure Pikachu could have single-handedly destroyed that mecha alone at the end with his overpowered Thunderbolt like he usually does.

How about earlier in the episode where Serena needs her Satoshi-kun to save her from those Swirlix?

Why do people act like Ash going head first into a TR death machine is something new? I can count of plenty of times he's done stuff like this, and that's why it feels like a double standard to me to JUST NOW find fault with it when it was never an issue before. It's not like he took the entire mech down single handedly, it was a GROUP EFFORT. This is a thing in EVERY SERIES OF THE SHOW. Or are we going to accusing him of screen hogging whenever he's the one who sends TR blasting off with a thunderbolt because it would be a huge deal now.

That part of the episode could have been written differently altogether with Serena having a greater role.

Anyway, I just don't like the general characterization of Serena so far especially in her last two focus episodes.

 

[Soniman]

Like I said above, Ash's act overshadowed anything the others did. And his physical struggle is what caused that mecha's engine to overheat. Only after this did Serena order Fennekin to use Flamethrower, which pales in comparison. In fact, Clemont did more quite frankly for giving Ash the plan to jump like a lunatic onto the suctioner. I'm sure Pikachu could have single-handedly destroyed that mecha alone at the end with his overpowered Thunderbolt like he usually does.

Ash's blocking a suction whole had nothing to do with physical strength, his body was just big enough to do so.
Serena was the one who freed the Pokemon (which is kinda important so I dont see how it "pales" , that was the main objective) and had a hand in taking down the mech along with Milfy and Ash, at best they contributed equal parts to the whole ordeal, and if you arrived at the conclusoin that Clemont did more, there's were the merit in blamming Ash for hogging the glory when this was portrayed like a team effort as I originally said?

And no Pikachu would have been able to do squat since im sure the Mech was thunderbolt proof, again, something that's been consistent in like every mech related TR confrontatoin, so I don't know how came to this conclusion.

How about earlier in the episode where Serena needs her Satoshi-kun to save her from those Swirlix?

I doubt anyone would have batted a single eyelash if it was Clemont who did the saving. And regardless of that she tried to fight them before being surrounded and sure was pissed enough to scare them away after the fact

 

[PokemonNation2000]

Well, at least this was better than the godawful PokeVision episode, right?

 

[Navin]

Ash's blocking a suction whole had nothing to do with physical strength, his body was just big enough to do so.

He was the one physically struggling under the brunt of its power and had all the others crying out his name. He was the main hero in that entire sequence. I don't see how it was not obvious his act overshadowed all the other contributions.

Serena was the one who freed the Pokemon (which is kinda important so I dont see how it "pales" , that was the main objective) and had a hand in taking down the mech along with Milfy and Ash, at best they contributed equal parts to the whole ordeal, and if you arrived at the conclusoin that Clemont did more, there's were the merit in blamming Ash for hogging the glory when this was portrayed like a team effort as I originally said?

The contributions weren't equal, and Serena's part was lesser than those of Clemont and Ash's.

And no Pikachu would have been able to do squat since im sure the Mech was thunderbolt proof, again, something that's been consistent in like every mech related TR confrontatoin, so I don't know how came to this conclusion.

At the end y'know when all three of them attack the broken down mecha. Pretty sure the rat could have done that solo.

I doubt anyone would have batted a single eyelash if it was Clemont who did the saving. And regardless of that she tried to fight them before being surrounded and sure was pissed enough to scare them away after the fact

They still would have complained about Serena though.

 

[Blue Saturday]

Saw the episode earlier today and it was a bit unexpected, but overall I was delivered mostly everything I expected if that makes sense...

Getting the negatives out of the way, I felt like this was a Serena episode but at the same time I felt like she was sharing too much of her pie with everyone else. Mainly Team Rocket and Ash, who I feel once again did too much in an episode where they should have been in the background or not appear at all in TRio's case. Use of TR comes off as lazy and shoehorning in an episode like this where the conflict could have easily been completely centralized around Serena and her rival. Ash, several times throughout this episode, kept making his presence known which detracted from Serena a bit too often for my taste. He should have been like Clemont and Bonnie, more so in the background with occasional support. But thrice in this episode he got overglorified as an action hero, audience shounen surrogate who beats up TR, makes the bold moves and saves people. Which is okay, but it happens way too often for my liking in episodes that are suppose to be about others and too consistently in normal episodes.

Anyway going directly into the meat of the episode. I actually liked it, Serena got a new rival in Millefeui and she's pretty entertaining. My only issue is I wish more significant screen time was given to the interactions between the two so we could understand a bit more about their dynamic and the spark that came about them interacting with one another. I really like Millefeui's design, love her clothes, love her sharp eyes, color-scheme and all. Slurpuff and Swirlix are my favorite Fairy-type Pokemon so it made me happy to see she had one and it was adorable. Pretty refreshing how her main Pokemon isn't that intimidating but a lovable little, goofy looking Fairy thing. Let's not forget Slurpuff actually fit Millefeui to a tee since its Dex entry says it helps pastry chefs. Millefeui is pretty great and I see great things coming from her in the future, I do hope her and Serena get to duke it out in the future. Plus she doesn't even care about Ash, simply teasing Serena over him is a great way to strike up some conflict and something new out of a rivalry.

I didn't care for any of the PokePuff stuff, it was cute how Serena gave Fennekin a twig for her PokePuff though since Fennekin love eating twigs. The Swirlix clan attacking Serena like that was actually pretty scary-cute, I like how they portrayed as some hissing, man-eating, vampire-fanged Pokemon instead of being kind, cute, gentle fairy floss. But Bonnie still found them cute, I can always count on her for some amusement. She never ceases to make me smile. I just like how Serena got tired of their **** and ordered her Fennekin to spit a Flamethrower at the Swirlix, which is a huge upgrade compared to her being pretty helpless in the beginning of XY. She's taking gradual steps, learned how to fish, tried to get a Pokemon, has been more active in trying to fend off TR and I like how it's in moderation. The Flare music during this scene made the initial Flamethrower and Serena being a BAMF in this moment tie it all in well.

I like how the Swirlix got to contribute to bringing down the TR mecha with their sugary adhesive they used to tie up Fennekin. Fennekin and Slurpuff got to contribute in getting the kill shot against the machine which was nice too, it's usually Ash doing that. So Millefeui leaving those final parting words with Serena leads me to believe Ms.Slurpuff will indeed be a permanent recurring rival. I also think that her being a rival kills the idea of Serena being a Coordinator, I doubt they would give Serena a rival who isn't a Coordinator herself in that case if she were becoming one. Honestly, I'm glad if that is the case because I know that the idea recently came up due to RuSa receiving remakes and I'm still against. Serena's problem isn't that she not a Coordinator, Serena's problem is that she's starved for battle time and some people see fundamental collection quest like getting ribbons as a quick fixer-upper. I honestly don't want to see her do Contest, her goal is to find a goal and she comments early on that she wants to takes a bit of time to find something she really loves and enjoys.

Contest, I've seen twice already with two rookie trainers, Super Contest were basically just more prettier and showy and had more of an emphasis on appealing but other than that. Contest have been maxed out at the moment, I really am not interested in seeing a third Coordinator girl at the moment. After all it only takes a little innovation to make the Battle Maison into some type of quest for Serena, it's a location with girls who are stylish and Serena loves fashion and they could easily functions as benchmarks for Serena's battle progress. But even then I have a stronger appreciation for Serena after this episode without a doubt because not once have we've seen a goal of finding a goal in the anime with any character so it's refreshing and does leave her with the most potential to develop as a character and a person. She just isn't allowed enough screen time to really do that.

I know some love Contest, but honestly, that's not what I want every generation. If Serena did Contest, then what next gen? Will the next girl be a Coordinator too? And so on. Is every chick going to be a Coordinator? Serena can be a great character, with great battling skills, development and all and that doesn't require being a Coordinator at all. Clemont's handled fantastically, if I could change one thing about him it would be that he got more battles but otherwise he's been great so far. So the proof is in the pudding. I'm here for new things and a little change and things could go right or wrong but experimenting and trying new things isn't bad. Serena's character doesn't have a coherent map, she was used for shipping(which was dumb imo) but the fact she doesn't have an arrow pointing in what will happens to her leads to a path of various different routes. I honestly think that annoys and intimidates people because we're used to knowing just how things will go or being able to predict it easily.

Serena could end up being an XtradionarY character and that doesn't require her copying her predecessors as far as I'm concerned, especially going down the formula and conventions of AG automatically and making her into a Coordinator girl.

Oh and I loved the title of this episode so much and the various translations one could get from the title. Swirlix and Slurpuff!! Don’t Sugarcoat the Sweet Battle!?, Swirlix and Slurpuff!! A Sweet Fight Gets Anything But Sweet!? , Swirlix and Slurpuff!! The Sweet Battle isn’t a Piece of Cake!?” I found that oddly amusing for some reason.

Ending things here, Bonnie and that Swirlix moment was seriously wicked. Everybody should aspire to be like Bonnie. If it weren't for her godly presence, XY wouldn't be the same.

 

[Soniman]

He was the one physically struggling under the brunt of its power and had all the others crying out his name. He was the main hero in that entire sequence. I don't see how it was not obvious his act overshadowed all the other contributions.

Because you're portraying it like he was the main focus when all he did was weaken the machine, I just can't see how this means Ash got an incredibly dispportinate amount of the effort to stop TR compared to everyone else, it just really isnt to me.

The contributions weren't equal, and Serena's part was lesser than those of Clemont and Ash's.

Really? Clemont merely gave Ash the plan to enact and hung back protecting Bonnie for the rest of the episode while Serena was out there fighting, you must be kidding if you really expect me to believe she somehow did less then Clemont when she actively had a role in FREEING THE POKEMON and STOPPING TR ALL TOGETHER.

At the end y'know when all three of them attack the broken down mecha. Pretty sure the rat could have done that solo.

And then we'd end up right back where we started and people would complain about not giving the other characters enough screentime, instead we got Serena doing something and helping out, so how is this a complaint even?

They still would have complained about Serena though.

Fair enough.

 

[DaDonYordel]

Well, at least this was better than the godawful PokeVision episode, right?

Nah, because that episode and this one are both enjoyable in their own special way.

 

[Lorde]

That part of the episode could have been written differently altogether with Serena having a greater role.

Exactly. Since this was meant to be her episode, she should've at least had the TR sub-plot to herself instead of having to share that screen-time with others. :x

 

[Blue Saturday]

Exactly. Since this was meant to be her episode, she should've at least had the TR sub-plot to herself instead of having to share that screen-time with others. :x

Yeah, that's probably one of my main issues with it. Millefeui and SerenaFondantshipping should have been the end all be-all of the episode, but they were sharing too much of it with Ash for my liking. It's so weird when Bonnie and Clemont had their jokes but still stayed in their place and didn't intrude too much or often.

 

[SerenaForTheWin]

Well, at least this was better than the godawful PokeVision episode, right?

yup that's true - in here we have serena participate an actual poffle contest unlike the xy 021 we have her shooting for a video with her dressing in chic and fancy outfits( in which is an optional one and something that people even don't look forward and might not even like).

Didn't like it, honestly: TR were the worst of it, though (gee, that wasn't predictable). Serena and her rival were okay, I guess: nothing positive, yet nothing negative, either-- definitely the strongest characters in this episode, though, make no mistake.

This is the kind of episode you just go "meh" with after watching it in my case, I guess.

i bet tr would appear here because they are only after swirlix and slurpuff - if those two pokemons didn't appear then i think tr won't even try to show up unless they are going for pikachu which is already redundant since the old era.

with the bonnie one i think i had to agree with you, what's with her going to propose on a lady( which has been repeated a lot of times for comedic relief) - i bet that part should be taken since it is only a part for entertaining people wherein some people aren't interested

 

[Sephora]

I felt like this was a Serena episode but at the same time I felt like she was sharing too much of her pie with everyone else. Mainly Team Rocket and Ash

I totally see what you mean, and I agree completely. I mean yeah Serena is starting to gradually be more proactive, but I really love her character and want to see more of her. As much as I love Ash and the rest of the gang, I wish that Serena would be in the spotlight for most of her own episode.

I really hope that we get a Serena-centered episode soon with no appearance from TR, or Ashy saving the day (even though it was not solely Ash this episode, I know, but... still).

Nah, because that episode and this one are both enjoyable in their own special way.

Agreed.

 

[RVD_fan]

I've been pretty critical of Serena's development but I was ok with this episode. Yes Ash got the big moment of heroic sacrifice but Serena did enough to show she has become more competent while still being believable. I liked the rival, if Serena's goal is going to be trying different things and finding something she wants to do, I wouldn't mind seeing the two compete again. Also, kudos to the writers for finding ways to keep the find Clemont a wife gag fresh.

 

[zhixun]

Yeah, have to disagree. Ash's Hero Mode act of jumping onto the vacuum completely overshadowed everything else, and had all the others crying out his name; plus his act caused the engine to overheat which then allowed them to finish off the mecha. This could have been written in a million ways, and one of them could have been Ash and the others being unable to act and Serena using Fennekin to take down TR. If this is a Serena-centric episode, I would have wanted her to do the heavy lifting, not Ash.



That was the part that made everything possible.

--------

I mean, this episode was definitely better than the Pokevision one. But still isn't better than the Clemont-centric episodes IMO. The rivalry was just forced IMO. Serena didn't get any real development. No battle, no capture. Return of her irritable side and more of the same from her (cooking/baking).

I guess if you're an Amourshipper you'd probably like this episode.

It would be ridiculous if all the heavy lifting is done by an inexperienced trainer. Note that if Fokko did not use Flamethrower, then Pikachu and Peroppafu is still stuck in the Rokcet machine. So we should not neglect Fokko's contribution.

 

[Navin]

Because you're portraying it like he was the main focus when all he did was weaken the machine, I just can't see how this means Ash got an incredibly dispportinate amount of the effort to stop TR compared to everyone else, it just really isnt to me.

That is exactly what I am say. Because the depiction of Ash's effort trumps that of the others'. Ash himself goes lunatic Hero Mode and blocks the suction thingy, which causes the mecha's engines to break down. All the others are in awe/worried at him. His part in the destruction carries greatest glory. Even more so by himself doing it as opposed to ordering one of his Pokemon.

Really? Clemont merely gave Ash the plan to enact and hung back protecting Bonnie for the rest of the episode while Serena was out there fighting, you must be kidding if you really expect me to believe she somehow did less then Clemont when she actively had a role in FREEING THE POKEMON and STOPPING TR ALL TOGETHER.

Well yeah, I do actually give more credit to Clemont for initiating the plan altogether. Ash gets more credit for doing the heavy lifting. Serena telling Fennekin to Flamethrower it was less important. And honestly Millifue or Ash could have destroyed that broken down mecha at the very end.

Point I'm making is that in a Serena-centric episode, I would have wanted Serena to be the one taking down the bad guys, and not depending heavily on the others.

And then we'd end up right back where we started and people would complain about not giving the other characters enough screentime, instead we got Serena doing something and helping out, so how is this a complaint even?

It all goes with what I was saying above in how that sequence should have been more focused on Serena taking it down, and not Clemont making the plan and Ash destroying the engine with psychopathic glory. By that point, Pikachu or the Slurpuff could have taken it out. Throwing in Serena's Fennkein's attack really wouldn't have changed the outcome.

It would be ridiculous if all the heavy lifting is done by an inexperienced trainer. Note that if Fokko did not use Flamethrower, then Pikachu and Peroppafu is still stuck in the Rokcet machine. So we should not neglect Fokko's contribution.

Why would it be "ridiculous"? This isn't Hunter J, this is Team Rocket. They're like the butt monkeys of this show. And just how long is that "inexperienced trainer" reason going to be used; when is Serena start going to be more self-reliant and getting experience? Through stuff like this.

I'm not saying the episode is garbage. Definitely better than the Pokevision episode with that silly climax over the 3 inch pond. It's just a filler episode which are usually mediocre. If you're an Amourshipper, you might like this episode though.

 

[Soniman]

That is exactly what I am say. Because the depiction of Ash's effort trumps that of the others'. Ash himself goes lunatic Hero Mode and blocks the suction thingy, which causes the mecha's engines to break down. All the others are in awe/worried at him. His part in the destruction carries greatest glory. Even more so by himself doing it as opposed to ordering one of his Pokemon.

And IM saying it's overblown because you and others are acting like this is the literal first time Ash does crazy stuff like this. He's ALWAYS been a action first, think later kind of guy, even back in the Original Series when he single handledly tried to hijack a car with Team Rocket in it (who were stealing a Lapras), this is small potatoes compared to that, but this is the XY anime where its decided that him doing anything of note is the equivalent to shoving Serena or any other character to the cold floor and basking in the spotlight himself, this is starting to happen every time a new episode airs and it's getting a bit irritating. There's a distinct diffidence between him being glorified and just being around to help out

Well yeah, I do actually give more credit to Clemont for initiating the plan altogether. Ash gets more credit for doing the heavy lifting. Serena telling Fennekin to Flamethrower it was less important. And honestly Millifue or Ash could have destroyed that broken down mecha at the very end.

Point I'm making is that in a Serena-centric episode, I would have wanted Serena to be the one taking down the bad guys, and not depending heavily on the others.

All Ash did was give Serena a chance to free the Pokemon, which she did, which is why im confused as to who Ash is the one stealing her glory. It feels like you're severely understating Serena's contribution and overstating Ash's. Really, you say she should have more focus but when she helps out with taking TR out all together you say that "Milfy and Ash could have handled it", that's rather contradictory.

It all goes with what I was saying above in how that sequence should have been more focused on Serena taking it down, and not Clemont making the plan and Ash destroying the engine with psychopathic glory. By that point, Pikachu or the Slurpuff could have taken it out. Throwing in Serena's Fennkein's attack really wouldn't have changed the outcome.

What's wrong with the entire team taking down the TRio together?? I though people WANTED more general camaraderie between the cast members. Does Serena really have to take down TR with just a small fox on her own to prove herself?

Whatever, im done arguing about it and I this is just going in circles

 

[zhixun]

Why would it be "ridiculous"? This isn't Hunter J, this is Team Rocket. They're like the butt monkeys of this show. And just how long is that "inexperienced trainer" reason going to be used; when is Serena start going to be more self-reliant and getting experience? Through stuff like this.

I'm not saying the episode is garbage. Definitely better than the Pokevision episode with that silly climax over the 3 inch pond. It's just a filler episode which are usually mediocre. If you're an Amourshipper, you might like this episode though.

I think we need to calm down a bit. Let us list out all the attacks made by Fokko since her debut.

XY004 Hinoko against Beequeen to make her out of danger.
XY007 Hinoko against Musashi and Kojiro.
XY009 Hinoko against Rarecoil but it dodged.
XY011 Hinoko against Bakeccha.
XY021 Kaen Hosha against Bakeccha and the first victory against a Pokémon, which surprises me because she learn this move with just very few experience. Even faster than Pikachu learn Juuman Boruto in the EP series by considering the number of battles taken.
XY022 Dodged away from attack from a Sunnygo, which says Fokko wants to fight only if necessary for protection.
XY023 Mezameru Pawaa against Nyarth but easily deflected by his Midare Hikkaki.
XY026 More Kaen Hosha than before, but still too weak to fight against wild Pokémon.

All other times that Fokko appeared are just being a pet owned by Serena without making any contribution to battling.

Your argument of Serena should be the one to do all the heavy work is sound. Then what would be your ideal way for her to do it without making too much nonsense? The series has just been aired less than a year ago so be patient, there is still a long way to go before it ends.

Finally all roads lead to Rome, so there are many ways that Serena can develop rather than just being an ordinary trainer.

 

[NPT]

In the Pokévision episode thread, some people were complaining about Ash not participating in making PR videos with the rest of the group. And now people are complaining about Ash "stealing spotlight" from the other cast members?! Wow.

And IM saying it's overblown because you and others are acting like this is the literal first time Ash does crazy stuff like this. He's ALWAYS been a action first, think later kind of guy, even back in the Original Series when he single handledly tried to hijack a car with Team Rocket in it (who were stealing a Lapras), this is small potatoes compared to that, but this is the XY anime where its decided that him doing anything of note is the equivalent to shoving Serena or any other character to the cold floor and basking in the spotlight himself, this is starting to happen every time a new episode airs and it's getting a bit irritating.

There's a distinct diffidence between him being glorified and just being around to help out.

All Ash did was give Serena a chance to free the Pokemon, which she did, which is why im confused as to who Ash is the one stealing her glory. It feels like you're severely understating Serena's contribution and overstating Ash's.

Pretty much this. I agree with everything you said. Ash didn't do all the work, the other cast members helped as well. All of them put equal effort to defeat Team Rocket.

What's wrong with the entire team taking down the TRio together?? I thought people WANTED more general camaraderie between the cast members.

Yeah, teamwork between the main cast members is always nice to see.... but I guess you can't please everyone.

Does Serena really have to take down TR with just a small fox on her own to prove herself?

Besides if that small fox took down Team Rocket's mecha all by herself, some people would complain about Fennekin being overpowered.

Don't Straw Man. I'm not saying this is the first time Ash is going lunatic...

Lunatic?? Ugh, you don't know what you are talking about.

Couldn't Serena have made the plan of attack and not Clemont? Couldn't Serena have found a way to cripple the mecha and not Ash? Couldn't Serena have ordered those Swirlix to string-shot the mecha at the end and not Ash? Couldn't Serena's Fennekin alone have blasted off TR?

Blah blah blah....!

Yeah. No matter what, you'll complain about the same thing over and over again. Get over it already!