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A Battle Festival Exploding With Life! VS Mega Lucario!! (1114)

thedarkdragon11

P4P Elite
I don't understand the point of this post?

This was because some were speculating that the "Mega Evolution Guru" in the cast list is another character since there are still some who believed that Ash's journeys outside Kanto won't be referenced in this series at the time, and that Gurkinn wasn't listed in the cast as such before (he has a name)...
 

mehmeh1

Not thinking twice!
Protagonists winning is not anything new. Think back to the original Yu-Gi-Oh.. as far as I remember, Yugi's only 2 losses came in nonstandard rulesets: Pegasus using a clock and Kaiba almost suiciding. In duels with traditional rulesets (correct me if I'm wrong) he never lost even once. Yet, the show still managed to be compelling in its own way
He did have a legit loss to Raphael, but it was a filler arc
 

LilligantLewis

Bonnie stan
This was because some were speculating that the "Mega Evolution Guru" in the cast list is another character since there are still some who believed that Ash's journeys outside Kanto won't be referenced in this series at the time, and that Gurkinn wasn't listed in the cast as such before (he has a name)...
Gotcha. Maybe it makes sense that he wasn't listed that way since he never even said his name in the episode lol
 

Almighty Zard

He has returned.
He also lost to Jounouchi during their duel over the Red Eyes B. Dragon. Albeit off screen but still

there is no gaurantee of that, for all we know Joey could've still lost and simply proved enough he was capable of getting his card back, and also worth noting that was anime only, Joey never got the card back in the manga.

So it did. Before I rewatched the scene all I remember was Gengar saving some construction workers :p

I still fail to see how one loss is enough to label Gengar as weak though.

Besides it took quite a few physical hits before going down, a couple of hits that were super effective too (bone rush due to it having lost levitate)

the gengar line's always been fragile when it comes to physical combat anyway, heck Ash's Noctowl took out Morty's Gengar with a practically one tackle after using foresight
 

Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
there is no gaurantee of that, for all we know Joey could've still lost and simply proved enough he was capable of getting his card back, and also worth noting that was anime only, Joey never got the card back in the manga.



I still fail to see how one loss is enough to label Gengar as weak though.

Besides it took quite a few physical hits before going down, a couple of hits that were super effective too (bone rush due to it having lost levitate)

the gengar line's always been fragile when it comes to physical combat anyway, heck Ash's Noctowl took out Morty's Gengar with a practically one tackle after using foresight
It wasnt just anime only. He also had his Red Eyes B. Dragon in Dark Side of Dimension which was set in the manga's continuity
 

Almighty Zard

He has returned.
It wasnt just anime only. He also had his Red Eyes B. Dragon in Dark Side of Dimension which was set in the manga's continuity

Yugioh R was also set in the manga continuity, essentially being the counterpart to the waking the dragons arc in the anime, taking place after battle city.

During that story Yugi still had the Red Eyes (if Joey had gotten it back he would've used it but he never did), so perhaps Yugi returned it to joey after his duel with Atem, but not before then, so my point still stands.

either way this isn't the best place to discuss this kind of stuff.
 
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RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
Protagonists winning is not anything new. Think back to the original Yu-Gi-Oh.. as far as I remember, Yugi's only 2 losses came in nonstandard rulesets: Pegasus using a clock and Kaiba almost suiciding. In duels with traditional rulesets (correct me if I'm wrong) he never lost even once. Yet, the show still managed to be compelling in its own way
He did have a legit loss to Raphael, but it was a filler arc

He also lost to Jounouchi during their duel over the Red Eyes B. Dragon. Albeit off screen but still

So it did. Before I rewatched the scene all I remember was Gengar saving some construction workers :p

You forget his most legit L:
Against the true Yugi in the last duel of the series

Returning to the episode, I like more how writers made the Kalos debut introducing an old stablished character instead of what they did with Johto/Hoenn/Sinnoh/Unova debuts. Gengar was very bad during this battle, but Dragonite was impressive. And no, Korrina was not "nerfed" during this battle. People have to stop justifying that Ash can defeat other characters by lacking the strength of those he defeats, because when this happened during XY, no one was complaining.
 

Almighty Zard

He has returned.
Well, I REEEALLY want to say more to support the fact she was nerfed something fierce (not to mention her whole team - which she clearly had trained since we last saw her - got steamrolled by Ash's fresh Dragonite who lacks any training perse), so...

she trained her Mineshao alright, but her Lucario didn't have any new moves or attacks going for it.

if her Lucario knew some form of attack that wasn't fighting or ground based, her chances of winning against Dragonite would've improved, but that was not the case, it only used Aura Sphere and Power-up Punch against Dragonite who resists both of them, and we all know how much pain the dragonite line can take in the anime, training or no training.
 

AuraChannelerChris

I can't Kominicate.
she trained her Mineshao alright, but her Lucario didn't have any new moves or attacks going for it.

if her Lucario knew some form of attack that wasn't fighting or ground based, her chances of winning against Dragonite would've improved, but that was not the case, it only used Aura Sphere and Power-up Punch against Dragonite who resists both of them, and we all know how much pain the dragonite line can take in the anime, training or no training.
Sooo screw having an exclusive power up and more time to train, then.
 

Almighty Zard

He has returned.
Sooo screw having an exclusive power up and more time to train, then.

a gimmick can only get you so far, especially if your opponent knows what's coming.

look for what it's worth Korrina did train her Mineshao pretty good considering it got solo'ed by Hawlucha in her first fight with Ash, but was able to help Lucario tag team Gengar in submission.

however when it came to her Lucario, NOTHING had changed since she last fought Ash, it had the same moves (aside from Metal Sound maybe, but we'll never know) and Ash had prior experience facing it, it could've gotten stronger sure, but we all know strength alone can only take you so far in fight, strategy and your pokemon being flexable are also needed, Korrina didn't have said flexability

Besides look back at how much of a tank Iris Dragonite was when she started using it and it didn't obey her, it ripped her rival's Beartic and Dawn's Mamoswine down despite having type disadvantage then.

Why is it so weird that when the situation is reversed that Ash's Dragonite couldn't win given the fact that it's opponent only spammed moves against it that were not very effective.

Like I said before, if Korrina had taught her Lucario some other form of attack, her chances of winning would've definitely improved and heck given the right move she could've won, but that ain't what happened, and again Ash had fought it before so since it had nothing new to offer, he knew how to counter it.

complaining isn't going to help matters.
 

AuraChannelerChris

I can't Kominicate.
a gimmick can only get you so far, especially if your opponent knows what's coming.

look for what it's worth Korrina did train her Mineshao pretty good considering it got solo'ed by Hawlucha in her first fight with Ash, but was able to help Lucario tag team Gengar in submission.

however when it came to her Lucario, NOTHING had changed since she last fought Ash, it had the same moves (aside from Metal Sound maybe, but we'll never know) and Ash had prior experience facing it, it could've gotten stronger sure, but we all know strength alone can only take you so far in fight, strategy and your pokemon being flexable are also needed, Korrina didn't have said flexability

Besides look back at how much of a tank Iris Dragonite was when she started using it and it didn't obey her, it ripped her rival's Beartic and Dawn's Mamoswine down despite having type disadvantage then.

Why is it so weird that when the situation is reversed that Ash's Dragonite couldn't win given the fact that it's opponent only spammed moves against it that were not very effective.

Like I said before, if Korrina had taught her Lucario some other form of attack, her chances of winning would've definitely improved and heck given the right move she could've won, but that ain't what happened, and again Ash had fought it before so since it had nothing new to offer, he knew how to counter it.

complaining isn't going to help matters.
Sooo they made her unimpressive in order to sell Ash's Dragonite being the ****.
 

AuraChannelerChris

I can't Kominicate.
i really don't get what your trying to say at this point, and to be honest i don't want to know.

seriously though can't you just enjoy the episode instead of nitpicking?
Sorry. I can't enjoy it when glaring points like those exist. You can't force anyone to like something just because you saw it differently in an amazing writing move. To me, this felt cheap. It's like the writers keep devaluing Mega Evolution every time it appears nowadays by now making Korrina incapable of defeating a fresh Dragonite when she should know better to work around threats like that, even if she lacked the right moves to use. She's a Gym Leader, for goodness' sake.

(I personally liked the fact Korrina just got screwed. She's annoying.)
 

Almighty Zard

He has returned.
I used to think Mega Evolution was so powerful that Ash needed one of his own to counter it, but i also realized i was basing this off Alain, and his overpowered Charizard X which I should not have done.

Mega Evolution does make a pokemon stronger but it's not something that guarantee's victory in battle, i mean we've seen Mega's beaten by standard pokemon on several occasions, even if it took more than 1 to do it, sure some of those encounters were due to Z-moves, but gimmicks alone don't always equate to wins.

on the other side, you have to realize the Dragonite species has always been shown to be buff in the anime, taking extreme measures in combat to be beaten because of their high endurance, and let's not forget as well that when you look back at the chaos iris dragonite was capable of in it's first couple of fights where it was untrained and took down pokemon who had type advantage over it, I would say Ash's, which was actually used to capacity beforehand has more breathing room.

in the context of this battle, Mega Lucario might have had more power, but in the end Dragonite had more endurance which is why it was able to win, and again Lucario was only use moves that were not very effective against Dragonite, if it had any other form of attack it could've pulled off a win, but that's not what happened.

The writers are at fault for not giving Korrina's Lucario any new moves to work with leading to it's loss, Dragonite can't be held responsible for that.
 

AuraChannelerChris

I can't Kominicate.
I used to think Mega Evolution was so powerful that Ash needed one of his own to counter it, but i also realized i was basing this off Alain, and his overpowered Charizard X which I should not have done.

Mega Evolution does make a pokemon stronger but it's not something that guarantee's victory in battle, i mean we've seen Mega's beaten by standard pokemon on several occasions, even if it took more than 1 to do it, sure some of those encounters were due to Z-moves, but gimmicks alone don't always equate to wins.

on the other side, you have to realize the Dragonite species has always been shown to be buff in the anime, taking extreme measures in combat to be beaten because of their high endurance, and let's not forget as well that when you look back at the chaos iris dragonite was capable of in it's first couple of fights where it was untrained and took down pokemon who had type advantage over it, I would say Ash's, which was actually used to capacity beforehand has more breathing room.

in the context of this battle, Mega Lucario might have had more power, but in the end Dragonite had more endurance which is why it was able to win, and again Lucario was only use moves that were not very effective against Dragonite, if it had any other form of attack it could've pulled off a win, but that's not what happened.

The writers are at fault for not giving Korrina's Lucario any new moves to work with leading to it's loss, Dragonite can't be held responsible for that.
Or she wasn't smart enough as a Gym Leader. Dragons apparently give her nightmares.
 
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