A Birdacious Battle! Brave Bird VS Sky Attack!! (1076)

[Aryash Bajaj]

What the above person said is evidently true. I should list the reasons for why I hate it.

1) I dislike how all the buildup done by Omode over Rowlet's determination to win and waking up early to train was dumped by Mr. Fujisaku so he can milk a cheap gag.

2) I dislike that that a new move was used as a DEM to dodge Decidueye's Z move.

3) I dislike that Hau was the only one that used any form of strategy (pinning Rowley down with spirit shackle) and yet Ash won because ..reasons.

4) I dislike that Ash was allowed to go and wake up Rowlet on the field.

5) The battle has no narrative intent, as Rowlet previously defeated Dartix after his shortcomings. And that shortcoming was based on Ash dropping a stone. Great Writing.

6) Finally, I dislike that Feather Dance was used in the Vs Kukui battle to dodge a Solar Beam to the face again without any explanation.

There, I am done with this discussion.

 

[RafaSceptile]

What the above person said is evidently true. I should list the reasons for why I hate it.

1) I dislike how all the buildup done by Omode over Rowlet's determination to win and waking up early to train was dumped by Mr. Fujisaku so he can milk a cheap gag.

2) I dislike that that a new move was used as a DEM to dodge Decidueye's Z move.

3) I dislike that Hau was the only one that used any form of strategy (pinning Rowley down with spirit shackle) and yet Ash won because ..reasons.

4) I dislike that Ash was allowed to go and wake up Rowlet on the field.

5) The battle has no narrative intent, as Rowlet previously defeated Dartix after his shortcomings. And that shortcoming was based on Ash dropping a stone. Great Writing.

6) Finally, I dislike that Feather Dance was used in the Vs Kukui battle to dodge a Solar Beam to the face again without any explanation.

There, I am done with this discussion.

1) It was not dumped by Fujisaku, that was inline with Rowlet's character, who even fallen asleep during Hala's grand trial
2) OK, that can be fair
3) Wait a second, so you are praying Hau's strategy with a movement that doesn't work as in the games (it is similar but not how it should work) but complaining about Ash using a movement that doesn't work as in the games
4) As explained before, the battle was interrupted, this happened in real life events like soccer players refreshing them with water during a VAR revision or during a game with high temperatures
5) You can said the same with other battles in any other Pokémon League, like Paul vs Barry, we don't need to see that battle to know how strong was Paul, and I don't see a lot of people complaining about that
6) Fair as 2) but zero correlation with the episode

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

Grabs popcorn

FIRST THE WRITERS USE PLOT ARMOR TO MAKE ASH LOSE IN KALOS WHERE HE SHOULD HAVE WON AND HAVE GRENINJA A WATER TYPE GO OUT TO BLAST BURN A FIRE TYPE MOVE AND WATER RESISTS FIRE AND THEN THEY USE PLOT ARMOR TO MAKE ASH WIN TO NOT ONLY GIVE HIM A MYTHICAL AND ULTRA BEAST BUT TO PULL ROWLET SLEEPING GAG OUT OF THEIR ASS IN ORDER TO MAKE ASH WIN ALOLA, WHICH IS A JOKE LEAGUE?

XY stans like myself are rightfully salty. Honestly, maybe Ash didn't deserve to win the Alola League but that match was just pathetic. After all THE REASON WHY ASH LOST THE KANTO LEAGUE IN THE FIRST PLACE WAS BECAUSE CHARIZARD WAS SLEEPING SO THEY JUST REVERSE THAT LOGIC IN ORDER TO GIFT ASH THE WIN. And this is why I dislike Ash's Rowlet, even though I like the species. The sleepy gag was funny at first but it got old quick, and it should have never been used during the middle of a battle. I feel bad for Hau, even if he is a bland character... he got screwed by his grandfather. It just felt so forced.

Why the hell didn't he win in Kalos. He was robbed.

LMAO this post is so freaking funny, goddamn is the salt visible. Ash did deserve to win the Alola league, Alola is the region he bonded with most in a spiritual manner, learning so much in Alola as he embraced it's culture and spirit and protected it from danger, had a family here and instead of travelling around stayed here like a second home. That coupled with the fact Ash is the strongest trainer of Alola and completed all the 4 grand trials makes him perfectly viable to win the Alola league. Ash getting an Ultra Beast and Legendary is not plot armour, do you watch the episodes blindfolded or something? They didn't matter in his league win, they didn't make him op enough to win suddenly, Jesus. Also yea the rowlet gag should have been handled better or not been here I agree, but goddamn rants like these just make me laugh and roll my eyes. "XY stans deserve to be rightfully salty" then go be salty in The fiery finish thread, what's the use of bringing it up here. Criticise the action taken in this episode if you must but don't pull anything out of your ass

 

[Lord Starfish]

2) I dislike that that a new move was used as a DEM to dodge Decidueye's Z move.

Deus ex machina (/ˌdeɪəs ɛks ˈmækɪnə, - ˈmɑːk-/ DAY-əs ex-MA(H)K-in-ə,[1] Latin: [ˈdɛ.ʊs ɛks ˈmaːkʰɪnaː]; plural: dei ex machina; English ‘god from the machine’) is a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem in a story is suddenly and abruptly resolved by an unexpected and unlikely occurrence.[2][3] Its function can be to resolve an otherwise irresolvable plot situation, to surprise the audience, to bring the tale to a happy ending, or act as a comedic device.

They literally dedicated a substantial amount of the last episode to showing him training for this move, wherein said training was interrupted while he almost had it down, followed by a point in the fight itself wherein he tried to use it and kinda-sorta succeeded but not really, only for him to finally pull it off at a pivotal moment. That is the OPPOSITE of a Deus Ex Machina. This thing was foreshadowed with gigantic glowing neon letters. And before you protest again that the move "worked wrong"... Moves being portrayed in the anime in ways that don't match what they do in the manga is in no way a common occurrence and this was coming from the same Pokémon whose Seed Bomb attack entails spitting an Everstone in his opponent's face. Which is to say, Mokuroh using moves in unconventional ways that don't really match how said moves act when used by other Pokémon is also a pre-established aspect of his character.

 

[Epicocity]

They literally dedicated a substantial amount of the last episode to showing him training for this move, wherein said training was interrupted while he almost had it down, followed by a point in the fight itself wherein he tried to use it and kinda-sorta succeeded but not really, only for him to finally pull it off at a pivotal moment. That is the OPPOSITE of a Deus Ex Machina. This thing was foreshadowed with gigantic glowing neon letters. And before you protest again that the move "worked wrong"... Moves being portrayed in the anime in ways that don't match what they do in the manga is in no way a common occurrence and this was coming from the same Pokémon whose Seed Bomb attack entails spitting an Everstone in his opponent's face. Which is to say, Mokuroh using moves in unconventional ways that don't really match how said moves act when used by other Pokémon is also a pre-established aspect of his character.

Nah, actually dodging Sinister Arrow Raid was a definite DEM because Rowlet was pinned, we saw him get hit by it...and then he was miraculously okay and no one had any clue how he had actually dodged it, even Rowlet, himself. You could theorize it was the Decidueye cloak, but theoretically that should also have been part of his general shadow and thus bound by Spirit Shackle.

And given the Everstone still works in line with Seed Bomb, and that Rotom outright commented it didn't even look like Feather Dance, one can't be blamed for also calling Rowlet's application of the move a DEM given it was conveniently different just in that moment from the move he was shown and supposedly trying to learn, because it is a special variation that comes out of nowhere at just the right moment for Rowlet to survive. It's not the strictest of definitions, but is in a definite gray area.

 

[Lord Starfish]

Nah, actually dodging Sinister Arrow Raid was a definite DEM because Rowlet was pinned, we saw him get hit by it...and then he was miraculously okay and no one had any clue how he had actually dodged it, even Rowlet, himself. You could theorize it was the Decidueye cloak, but theoretically that should also have been part of his general shadow and thus bound by Spirit Shackle.

Right. That. Sorry, I was distracted by all the other usual talk about the Feather Dance thing and didn't notice that the comment I was responding to was not about that. Well, while I cannot deny that the show undeniably cheats with that scene, it's still not "using a new move as a DEM" since the show doesn't claim that the Feather Dance thing was related to that. They do definitely show him getting hit by it though which... I mean I brought up an explanation for that a while back (basically boiling down to "Kids' show so the staff just cheated figuring the target audience would not question it in the moment") but yeah the way they presented it it does indeed boil down to "He clearly gets hit but then he's unharmed because... because."

 

[Aryash Bajaj]

They literally dedicated a substantial amount of the last episode to showing him training for this move, wherein said training was interrupted while he almost had it down, followed by a point in the fight itself wherein he tried to use it and kinda-sorta succeeded but not really, only for him to finally pull it off at a pivotal moment. That is the OPPOSITE of a Deus Ex Machina. This thing was foreshadowed with gigantic glowing neon letters. And before you protest again that the move "worked wrong"... Moves being portrayed in the anime in ways that don't match what they do in the manga is in no way a common occurrence and this was coming from the same Pokémon whose Seed Bomb attack entails spitting an Everstone in his opponent's face. Which is to say, Mokuroh using moves in unconventional ways that don't really match how said moves act when used by other Pokémon is also a pre-established aspect of his character.

Ah sorry. Epicocity voiced my point better. There was no explanation for how Feather Dance allowed Rowlet to get out of Sinister Shadow Raid (and later Solar Beam).

 

[Epicocity]

Ah sorry. Epicocity voiced my point better. There was no explanation for how Feather Dance allowed Rowlet to get out of Sinister Shadow Raid (and later Solar Beam).

Starfish is right in that Feather Dance didn't allow him to get out of it, though. We have no idea why or how he got out of it. He just...did. Somehow. Heck if anyone knows how, though. Not even Rowlet.

 

[mehmeh1]

Starfish is right in that Feather Dance didn't allow him to get out of it, though. We have no idea why or how he got out of it. He just...did. Somehow. Heck if anyone knows how, though. Not even Rowlet.

I guess it was the decidueye cape thing, but that just makes things more questionable

 

[RafaSceptile]

Nah, actually dodging Sinister Arrow Raid was a definite DEM because Rowlet was pinned, we saw him get hit by it...and then he was miraculously okay and no one had any clue how he had actually dodged it, even Rowlet, himself. You could theorize it was the Decidueye cloak, but theoretically that should also have been part of his general shadow and thus bound by Spirit Shackle.

And given the Everstone still works in line with Seed Bomb, and that Rotom outright commented it didn't even look like Feather Dance, one can't be blamed for also calling Rowlet's application of the move a DEM given it was conveniently different just in that moment from the move he was shown and supposedly trying to learn, because it is a special variation that comes out of nowhere at just the right moment for Rowlet to survive. It's not the strictest of definitions, but is in a definite gray area.

Well yes, it dodged it...somehow, probably Rowlet used "Feather Substitute" for the first time but nobody noticed this thanks to the glow after Sinister Arrow Raid.
That can explain also why Rowlet doesn't had its costume, the same happened after it dodged Solar Beam against Kukui's Venusaur.

 

[Epicocity]

Well yes, it dodged it...somehow, probably Rowlet used "Feather Substitute" for the first time but nobody noticed this thanks to the glow after Sinister Arrow Raid.
That can explain also why Rowlet doesn't had its costume, the same happened after it dodged Solar Beam against Kukui's Venusaur.

Then why did it keep failing if Ash kept calling for the move? And even so, Rowlet himself looks surprised that he somehow emerged unscathed. If he had used a move, you'd think he'd be less surprised. Though even then, it still breaks the move that literally pins your shadow. The whole thing is questionable at best and can't be explained by anything other than "Rowlet survives nuke by...er...he survives a nuke".

I guess it was the decidueye cape thing, but that just makes things more questionable

It makes things a lot more questionable, ranging anywhere from "if the cape is part of the shadow, how did it escape the shadow" to "why was Rowlet allowed an object that helped him in battle?" (and before anyone mentions Hawlucha, he didn't use it in actual battle...).

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

Can we just agree this battle was poorly executed.

 

[RafaSceptile]

Can we just agree this battle was poorly executed.

OK, but can we just agree this episode is not as terrible as half of the comments above treating it as one of the worst episodes ever?

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

OK, but can we just agree this episode is not as terrible as half of the comments above treating it as one of the worst episodes ever?

That depends. This is right next as bad as the weird Guzzlord and Z-Move montage episode, but still pales to the "Battle Royale where only named characters except Kahili all miraculously pass."

 

[RafaSceptile]

That depends. This is right next as bad as the weird Guzzlord and Z-Move montage episode.

But the Guzzlord episode is definitely worse because 1/4 of the episode was reused animation and the plot was OK but super rushed. This episode is at worst in the average, a decent battle but with a very controvertial outcome and the start of Sophocles VS Kiawe looked very good (sad that the 2nd part was a downside)

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

But the Guzzlord episode is definitely worse because 1/4 of the episode was reused animation and the plot was OK but super rushed. This episode is at worst in the average, a decent battle but with a very controvertial outcome and the start of Sophocles VS Kiawe looked very good (sad that the 2nd part was a downside)

I believe anything good that happened in an episode can be thoroughly screwed by the results at the end; something that I only know has happened in this anime in particular. Both episodes, to me, had very bad execution for different reasons, though I rank this episode as the worst because it drew drama for no reason (like why Ash felt like it was the end of the world for him to get taken out when before he was fine with it because he had fun...but apparently this one time he felt like dying or something, implying he didn't have the fun he wanted, or why did he care that much about losing to Hau) that later just...vanished for the rest of the league, and several other things we've discussed already.

 

[RafaSceptile]

I believe anything good that happened in an episode can be thoroughly screwed by the results at the end; something that I only know has happened in this anime in particular. Both episodes, to me, had very bad execution for different reasons, though I rank this episode as the worst because it drew drama for no reason (like why Ash felt like it was the end of the world for him to get taken out when before he was fine with it because he had fun...but apparently this one time he felt like dying or something, implying he didn't have the fun he wanted, or why did he care that much about losing to Hau) that later just...vanished for the rest of the league, and several other things we've discussed already.

Well Ash had a similar dissapointing face in previous leagues, the exceptions were Hoenn, Unova and Kalos. Also unlike other previous leagues, in this one he was questioned about why he chose to use Rowlet when he could use another Pokémon, so Ash probably could feel the fault about his apparently wrong choice

Spoiler: Image

 

[LilligantLewis]

LMAO this post is so freaking funny, goddamn is the salt visible. Ash did deserve to win the Alola league, Alola is the region he bonded with most in a spiritual manner, learning so much in Alola as he embraced it's culture and spirit and protected it from danger, had a family here and instead of travelling around stayed here like a second home. That coupled with the fact Ash is the strongest trainer of Alola and completed all the 4 grand trials makes him perfectly viable to win the Alola league. Ash getting an Ultra Beast and Legendary is not plot armour, do you watch the episodes blindfolded or something? They didn't matter in his league win, they didn't make him op enough to win suddenly, Jesus. Also yea the rowlet gag should have been handled better or not been here I agree, but goddamn rants like these just make me laugh and roll my eyes. "XY stans deserve to be rightfully salty" then go be salty in The fiery finish thread, what's the use of bringing it up here. Criticise the action taken in this episode if you must but don't pull anything out of your ass

Agreed, and even if they did pick the wrong episode, you would think they would pick the final episode of the league, not some random episode in the middle of the league

 

[Twilight-Kun]

He wasn't robbed, Decidueye wasn't stronger than Rowlet, so he lost.

Decidueye beat the unholy tar out of Rowlet, who then tanked a multi-hit Z-Move, multiple physical strikes, and the recoil from Brave Bird twice

Decidueye and Hau got done very, very, incredibly dirty just so Ash could win with an unevolved pokemon

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

Fight was basically this: