A Birdacious Battle! Brave Bird VS Sky Attack!! (1076)

[AuraChannelerChris]

You want someone robbed? That was Hau. I don't even care about his existence in this anime, but even this felt cheap to him.

 

[RafaSceptile]

You want someone robbed? That was Hau. I don't even care about his existence in this anime, but even this felt cheap to him.

He wasn't robbed, Decidueye wasn't stronger than Rowlet, so he lost.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

He wasn't robbed, Decidueye wasn't stronger than Rowlet, so he lost.

dude would you please stop pointing out the sad facts and instead show sympathy where it is due

 

[Red and Blue]

The only one really at fault is Nanu for not telling the difference between a knock out and status condition

 

[RafaSceptile]

dude would you please stop pointing out the sad facts and instead show sympathy where it is due

I have more sympathy for Ash than Hau, and glad because Hala did the right thing

 

[Aryash Bajaj]

I have more sympathy for Ash than Hau, and glad because Hala did the right thing

By allowing Ash to go on the field to wake up his Pokemon instead of continuing the battle in the state of Rowlet being asleep ? By allowing Ash to go on a field to cure a status condition of his Pokemon that he should have faced the consequences for ?

 

[mehmeh1]

Remove that entire scene and this becomes a pretty decent fight. But for some reason they wanted to make a scene that invalidates the Alola League as a professional event and makes it look like Rowlet never developed. Plus it screws over poor, poor Hau

 

[RafaSceptile]

By allowing Ash to go on the field to wake up his Pokemon instead of continuing the battle in the state of Rowlet being asleep ? By allowing Ash to go on a field to cure a status condition of his Pokemon that he should have faced the consequences for ?

Yes, any overturned decision has direct or indirect consequences, and again, each league has different rules

Remove that entire scene and this becomes a pretty decent fight. But for some reason they wanted to make a scene that invalidates the Alola League as a professional event and makes it look like Rowlet never developed. Plus it screws over poor, poor Hau

That reasoning is as dumb as trying to invalidate a Soccer World Cup because a referee made a mistake (spoiler: no World Cup has been invalidated because of that)

 

[Almighty Zard]

The only one really at fault is Nanu for not telling the difference between a knock out and status condition

is sleeping by your own volition truly being asleep though?

either way yes Nanu was at fault.

By allowing Ash to go on the field to wake up his Pokemon instead of continuing the battle in the state of Rowlet being asleep ? By allowing Ash to go on a field to cure a status condition of his Pokemon that he should have faced the consequences for ?

and yet he didn't actually touch Rowlet where as Hau was already hugging his pokemon in "victory"

I wish people would let this fight go, I know people don't want to accept the fact that starter beat it's fully evolved form, but Rowlet to date is the only pokemon who can actually get away with it without having to resort to "outside" moves like TM or egg attacks, and not having it seem DEM due to it's typing being super effective against itself in all forms.

 

[Aryash Bajaj]

is sleeping by your own volition truly being asleep though?

either way yes Nanu was at fault.



and yet he didn't actually touch Rowlet where as Hau was already hugging his pokemon in "victory"

I wish people would let this fight go, I know people don't want to accept the fact that starter beat it's fully evolved form, but Rowlet to date is the only pokemon who can actually get away with it without having to resort to "outside" moves like TM or egg attacks, and not having it seem DEM due to it's typing being super effective against itself in all forms.

Remind me if Ashish was allowed to wake Snorlax in battle when it fell asleep and when Ash asked it to use Rest.

Remind me if Ash was allowed to go on the field to wake Sceptile when Darkrai used Dark Void.

Hugging your Pokemon in victory after an (incompetent) judge declared victory is not an entirely new thing, it has been done by Ash himself many times. Waking up your Pokemon after "Chief Refree" stops the celebration for the battle to continue hasn't been done before and is not acceptable in the same timeline where resectable tournaments like Sinnoh League have never allowed it. If the Referee's were wrong, then it questions the prestige of the league as a whole.

And Rowlet already has made the battle a DEM without considering it's gag. No one has a problem with first stages beating final stages. You are the only one who brought in game logic.

And since you did bring game logic, explain to me Feather Dance works as an instant get out of anything Substitute instead of lowering the attack stat. How it worked on Special attack's like Venusaur's solar beam ?

And Ash's Bulbasaur and Squirtle are far more capable than Rowlet without any asspull. So the 'only Pokemon's arguement doesn't work.

Yes, any overturned decision has direct or indirect consequences, and again, each league has different rules

Having different rules doesn't excuses bad rules. Anyone can steamroll the entire league with Snorlax alone because he will just tell him to use Rest then go wake him up without any drawbacks of using rest. Sleep Powder and Spore are just useless because the trainer can just wake them up.

 

[RafaSceptile]

Remind me if Ashish was allowed to wake Snorlax in battle when it fell asleep and when Ash asked it to use Rest.

Remind me if Ash was allowed to go on the field to wake Sceptile when Darkrai used Dark Void.

Hugging your Pokemon in victory after an (incompetent) judge declared victory is not an entirely new thing, it has been done by Ash himself many times. Waking up your Pokemon after "Chief Refree" stops the celebration for the battle to continue hasn't been done before and is not acceptable in the same timeline where resectable tournaments like Sinnoh League have never allowed it. If the Referee's were wrong, then it questions the prestige of the league as a whole.

And Rowlet already has made the battle a DEM without considering it's gag. No one has a problem with first stages beating final stages. You are the only one who brought in game logic.

And since you did bring game logic, explain to me Feather Dance works as an instant get out of anything Substitute instead of lowering the attack stat. How it worked on Special attack's like Venusaur's solar beam ?

And Ash's Bulbasaur and Squirtle are far more capable than Rowlet without any asspull. So the 'only Pokemon's arguement doesn't work.




Having different rules doesn't excuses bad rules. Anyone can steamroll the entire league with Snorlax alone because he will just tell him to use Rest then go wake him up without any drawbacks of using rest. Sleep Powder and Spore are just useless because the trainer can just wake them up.

1.-The battle was not interrupted for any of those Snorlax or Sceptile examples. Even in real sports an interrumpted event allows you to do anything "over the rules", a match in soccer suspended by rain, snow or anything allow players to refresh them with water during the reglamentary time and even worse when the match is suspended and reprogrammed to another day, because there is not rules during an interruption
2.-You don't know if that was allowed in the Sinnoh League, you missed between 55-60 offscreen battles
3.-Nobody is using game logic, people just complain about this battle forgetting how bad other battles were like Ash VS Ritchie or Ash VS Elesa, and trying to invalidate the entire battle and an entire arc by 5 minutes during a 17 episodes aka approximately 374 minutes arc (less than 2% of the arc)
4.-Yes, Ash's Bulbasaur is better than Ash's Rowlet with a similar Win Rate but far more experienced, but Ash's Rowlet is definitely better than Ash's Squirtle

 

[Morax]

Grabs popcorn

FIRST THE WRITERS USE PLOT ARMOR TO MAKE ASH LOSE IN KALOS WHERE HE SHOULD HAVE WON AND HAVE GRENINJA A WATER TYPE GO OUT TO BLAST BURN A FIRE TYPE MOVE AND WATER RESISTS FIRE AND THEN THEY USE PLOT ARMOR TO MAKE ASH WIN TO NOT ONLY GIVE HIM A MYTHICAL AND ULTRA BEAST BUT TO PULL ROWLET SLEEPING GAG OUT OF THEIR ASS IN ORDER TO MAKE ASH WIN ALOLA, WHICH IS A JOKE LEAGUE?

XY stans like myself are rightfully salty. Honestly, maybe Ash didn't deserve to win the Alola League but that match was just pathetic. After all THE REASON WHY ASH LOST THE KANTO LEAGUE IN THE FIRST PLACE WAS BECAUSE CHARIZARD WAS SLEEPING SO THEY JUST REVERSE THAT LOGIC IN ORDER TO GIFT ASH THE WIN. And this is why I dislike Ash's Rowlet, even though I like the species. The sleepy gag was funny at first but it got old quick, and it should have never been used during the middle of a battle. I feel bad for Hau, even if he is a bland character... he got screwed by his grandfather. It just felt so forced.

Why the hell didn't he win in Kalos. He was robbed.

I can agree that alola league was underwhelming af but kalos was no better. What bothers me is the fact that ash never managed to defeat alan and the only explanation for that is status quo. It's not that charizard was stronger than greninja but the higher-ups weren't ready to make him win yet. Had that battle occurred anywhere else in the universe i'm sure Ash would have won but only because it was the league finale, not even arceus could have helped him win.

 

[Red and Blue]

is sleeping by your own volition truly being asleep though?

Yes. Pokemon can fall asleep on their own during a battle as evident by the move Rest

 

[RafaSceptile]

I can agree that alola league was underwhelming af but kalos was no better. What bothers me is the fact that ash never managed to defeat alan and the only explanation for that is status quo. It's not that charizard was stronger than greninja but the higher-ups weren't ready to make him win yet. Had that battle occurred anywhere else in the universe i'm sure Ash would have won but only because it was the league finale, not even arceus could have helped him win.

MCX beated 10 megaevolutions in a row including an E4 member, battled against Steven's Mega-Metagross, Primal Groudon, Primal Kyogre and Zygarde 50%, are you sure that MCX wasn't genuinely stronger than Ash-Greninja? I think the result was decently obvious from a logical perspective, but we joined to the hype train and we ending extremely dissapointed

 

[Morax]

MCX beated 10 megaevolutions in a row including an E4 member, battled against Steven's Mega-Metagross, Primal Groudon, Primal Kyogre and Zygarde 50%, are you sure that MCX wasn't genuinely stronger than Ash-Greninja? I think the result was decently obvious from a logical perspective, but we joined to the hype train and we ending extremely dissapointed

Ash's strength depends on what the plot demands, it's that simple. When they want him to win they give him all kinds of contrived power-ups ( pikashunium z, naganadel etc) and when they don't, not even a deus ex machina (ash-greninja) can save him.

 

[Aryash Bajaj]

1.-The battle was not interrupted for any of those Snorlax or Sceptile examples. Even in real sports an interrumpted event allows you to do anything "over the rules", a match in soccer suspended by rain, snow or anything allow players to refresh them with water during the reglamentary time and even worse when the match is suspended and reprogrammed to another day, because there is not rules during an interruption
2.-You don't know if that was allowed in the Sinnoh League, you missed between 55-60 offscreen battles
3.-Nobody is using game logic, people just complain about this battle forgetting how bad other battles were like Ash VS Ritchie or Ash VS Elesa, and trying to invalidate the entire battle and an entire arc by 5 minutes during a 17 episodes aka approximately 374 minutes arc (less than 2% of the arc)
4.-Yes, Ash's Bulbasaur is better than Ash's Rowlet with a similar Win Rate but far more experienced, but Ash's Rowlet is definitely better than Ash's Squirtle

The first four points were directed to the Zard person. He brought in game logic to say Rowlet's victory was justifiable.

1) Even worse, you can drug your Pokemon during the interruption and no one would say anything. Because Hey, there are no rules during an interruption.

2) Ash vs Tobias happened in Sinnoh League. Dark Void was used in Sinnoh League. Heracross fell asleep in Sinnoh League. Sceptile fell asleep in Sinnoh League. Ash wasn't allowed to wake them up.

3) Zard guy said Rowlet victory was not a DEm because there were no egg moves or TM introduced. I wanted to know how Feather Dance works as a get out of anything move. Can anybody explain.

4) I would have asked 'Hau' (bad pun, I know) but you really brought win rate into power scaling.

 

[RafaSceptile]

The first four points were directed to the Zard person. He brought in game logic to say Rowlet's victory was justifiable.

1) Even worse, you can drug your Pokemon during the interruption and no one would say anything. Because Hey, there are no rules during an interruption.

2) Ash vs Tobias happened in Sinnoh League. Dark Void was used in Sinnoh League. Heracross fell asleep in Sinnoh League. Sceptile fell asleep in Sinnoh League. Ash wasn't allowed to wake them up.

3) Zard guy said Rowlet victory was not a DEm because there were no egg moves or TM introduced. I wanted to know how Feather Dance works as a get out of anything move. Can anybody explain.

4) I would have asked 'Hau' (bad pun, I know) but you really brought win rate into power scaling.

1) Yes, but using a drug Pokémon during a battle can be against the rules, so not a good counterexample
2) Again, you missed between 55-60 offscreen battles, you can't assume that what happened in onscreen battles applies to the rest of the battles, not even in real life events you can do that
3) Because this is the anime and moves don't necessary works as in the games
4) Win Rate is a decently good comparison between Pokémon, yes, you need context which is why I ranked Bulbasaur with a lower win rate over Rowlet with a higher win rate

 

[Morax]

The first four points were directed to the Zard person. He brought in game logic to say Rowlet's victory was justifiable.

1) Even worse, you can drug your Pokemon during the interruption and no one would say anything. Because Hey, there are no rules during an interruption.

2) Ash vs Tobias happened in Sinnoh League. Dark Void was used in Sinnoh League. Heracross fell asleep in Sinnoh League. Sceptile fell asleep in Sinnoh League. Ash wasn't allowed to wake them up.

3) Zard guy said Rowlet victory was not a DEm because there were no egg moves or TM introduced. I wanted to know how Feather Dance works as a get out of anything move. Can anybody explain.

4) I would have asked 'Hau' (bad pun, I know) but you really brought win rate into power scaling.

i have no bone in this argument but people should just stop with the power scaling ****. This ain't dragon ball Z, power levels have never been consistent in this anime.

 

[Aryash Bajaj]

I don't even know why I was wasting my time with this discussion. I hate this battle. For reasons other than just the gag.

 

[RafaSceptile]

I don't even know why I was wasting my time with this discussion. I hate this battle. For reasons other than just the gag.

Yes, but you can't be here and just said "I hate this episode" without explaining why, that is not how episode discussions threads works, which is why when I talk about when I don't like an episode, I explain why so people can talk or at least know my reasons

As I said before, this episode was decent overall, the animation was solid especially during the Kiawe VS Sophocles first part (and better than the second half), and Rowlet was able to beat its rival, as it deserved.