1. We have moved to a new forum system. All your posts and data should have transferred over. Welcome, to the new Serebii Forums. Details here
    Dismiss Notice
  2. We have received legal notice about the sharing of certain images for Pokémon Sword & Shield. Due to this, we have a new rule. If you post said images, you will be removed from the forums until 15:00 UTC on November 14th 2019. We have also killed the leak discussion threads for the time being. Thank you for your patience during this. If you have any queries, use the contact form
  3. Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
    Dismiss Notice
  4. If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders
    Dismiss Notice

A Clubsplosion of Excitement! (733)

Discussion in 'Pokémon Black & White - Rival Destinies' started by Serebii, Mar 29, 2012.

  1. RWB

    RWB Dragon busted by Her

    Patronizing someone is among the worst kinds of teasing there are, entering bullying territory(which, by the way, Iris entered full stop in the Don Battles- recording identity theft and abusing it to glorify yourself and humiliate the actual person? Cruel, cruel move that's horribly immoral). Also, she used the phrase even for things that weren't that dumb.

    It's a personality flaw, and I, as a rule, detest hypocritical characters most of the time. I don't care if you say it's "funny", it's still a part of her character. Even if it is funny, it's still a very unpleasant character flaw(but admittedly, a very realistic one).

    Bragging about how you'll win the tournament then calling someone out when said person is in the same seat you were when you made the claim? Yeah, it does not work like that.

    And if you make the claim be about Iris and Georgia instead about the tournament, you are essentially bringing this back to Iris undeserved arrogance from the Don Battle- where she said "you really think you can defeat me?" to the girl who's technically beaten her thrice. Which loops back into Iris being anything but humble.

    It does still not matter if Burgundy made the first move, Iris still proved to be the bigger braggart. And just because the other person says arrogant things, it doesn't make you not arrogant when answering.

    I actually love her character design and the game version, and I certainly don't detest Iris overall in the anime. The anime simply mucked it up by making her a bit of an arrogant jerk. She has some nice sides as well.

    What I dislike is the complete inability for some people to accept the fact that she HAS flaws. It's what makes her a decent character.

    Iris is an undeservedly arrogant hypocrite with a mean streak. But that is an interesting thing in it's own right- but she needs to be called out on it so she can grow- and she never is.

    Essentially, I like Iris, even this "jerkish" version. I just dislike that the writers aren't actually doing anything with it.

    But nice to see that "Saying negative, but true things about a character= MUST BE A HATER" mentality.




    And I will admit that being humble has nothing to do with your ability to back up your boasts. I double-checked the definition:

    1.
    not proud or arrogant; modest: to be humble although successful.
    2.
    having a feeling of insignificance, inferiority, subservience, etc.: In the presence of so many world-famous writers I felt very humble.


    Trip is not actually especially arrogant, so he qualifies as humble. He has a certain amount of arrogance, but it's very, very limited(to Ash, were it's not so much arrogance as just being -_- about him, and to Bianca- which was understandable with her track record). He is, on the other hand, kind of a jerk. XD

    Georgia and Iris are both pretty arrogant, but Iris is more so and can't back her arrogance up. Neither are humble. At all.

    Burgundy isn't notably arrogant, just spiteful. She's not exactly humble, either, though.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2012
  2. Graham Aker

    Graham Aker Well-Known Member

    Well in any case, let's just hope her getting absolutely demolished teaches her something. Given that she wasn't able to do anything at all to Masaomi, and Stephan will...actually y'know succeed.

    Ash and Cilan aren't going to call her out on anything. They're far too nice. Iris is NOT humble though, to say she is...is kinda absurd. Ash is humble.

    I was actually expecting something from Iris considering how horribly she got beaten, but it doesn't look like she really changed that much at all.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2012
  3. Caseydia

    Caseydia Ace Trainer

    The boys don't correct Iris like the others didn't like to correct Brock back then. It's the same annoying cycle. I still don't think that after all of that she will suddenly start doing more training. She might start doing it when they get to the ice mountain, the seventh gym or the eigth. Which I think is a long while.
     
  4. Sushi

    Sushi unspecified Staff Member Super Mod

    ...Just a little bit creeped out by how many people are obsessed with seeing *insert disliked character* get beaten/make mistakes/humiliated. Really? That's where you get your satisfaction from when watching this show? Deciding who deserves it the most, then clasping your hands in delight when it comes true? Feeling like the day's saved when a ten-year-old, or at the most, sixteen-year-old fictional kid gets their face kicked?

    Uhm, you can dislike anyone you want, but trying to find something inherently malicious or fundamentally wrong about Ash, Cilan, Iris, Bianca, Stephan, Georgia, Burgundy or even Trip is ridiculous, not to mention pointless. They may have ego problems, or have difficulties listening to people, or like provoking or teasing others, but none of those characteristics are utilized to actually hurt other people.

    Everyone bar Trip is clearly having a good time - as much as they claim to want to smash someone else's head in, they all end up hanging around together, getting each other fired up for the upcoming matches. Georgia and Burgundy, who're doing their best pretending that they're not friends with their rivals, are staying because they're interested. Burgundy may be horribly rude to Cilan, but all she wants is his attention and acknowledgement as a true rival. She keeps misinterpreting Cilan's friendliness as arrogance and a "holier-than-thou" attitude, which may be a flaw and maybe annoying to others, but in no way is it morally wrong or fixable with b*tchslapping.

    Cilan and Iris didn't suddenly lose interest after their losses and stood on the sidelines with a look of utter boredom on their faces, but are very much looking forward to the semifinals, not once implying that they think Ash can't beat Masaomi. Iris is a tsukkomi-like character so she's there to shoot down others with dry comments - that doesn't imply in any way that she really thinks lowly of others, quite the contrary. I think most manzai duos are friends and portray themselves as such in their sketches. Their special dynamic is what makes the audience laugh in the first place.

    We know that Bianca's always excitement personified and there's no reason to think she'll leave after the semifinals. Trip may be antisocial and should really stop underestimating his opponents, but even he never goes out of his way to talk down on others, preferring to simply stay away from them instead.

    I can see why people aren't fond of some of those portrayals. I'm not very fond of Trip either. But even so, isn't painfully, painfully obvious that there's no "bad guy" among this bunch? None of these people are evil and "deserving" of some thrashing. They're children who want to have fun by participating in a tournament and spending time with others.

    It's one thing to be of the opinion that losses are there to help a character, but for some people the line between that and the rather ominous wish for contentment by seeing someone lying on the ground battered is obviously getting rather blurry.
     
  5. Raptor_Crow

    Raptor_Crow I lied to you all

    Meanwhile I love seeing my favourite characters suffer because I'm weird. Also I view them in different styles- If it's a humorous pain I will laugh, if it's an emotional pain I will cry, if it's regular pain I will think of how much it must have hurt. It's me favouring them so much that I would like to see them go through different experiences. I'll note there's never been a character I've disliked in Pokémon, I'll only go as far as not caring for a character.

    I've never hated a character because I don't want to nitpick things from the show, I watch Pokémon to enjoy it.
     
  6. RWB

    RWB Dragon busted by Her

    Where the heck did you see that? Wanting to see them get comeuppance- as in being called on their mistakes, or unpleasant behaviour is not an obsession of any kind, it's a wish to see the writiting improve. If they don't get called on it, it portrays this as something perfectly okay. To use the tvtropes term, they become Karma Houdinis.

    If there actually was this kind of bile present, could you tell me when? Because I honestly can't find it in the last few pages(though I might have ignored without thinking about it).


    Um, yes, Iris did exactly that during the Don Battles. She also actively chased down her victim. She has a very, very nasty mean streak, which is, an inherently malicious trait.

    Outside of that, I'm willing to agree.

    Iris identity theft stunt to humiliate Georgia on actual film (let's not forget Luke is actually trying to get his films produced) is deeply immoral and an actual, quite severe criminal act. Had she not been 10, she could have served jailtime for it.


    The problem here is when these traits get mixed in with equally bad or worse traits. Iris actually behaves quite a lot like a bully outside her "Tsukkomi" role as well, and this was especially notable in the earlier episodes(and then in the Don Battles).

    I should know, I've been on the receiving end every now and then.


    It doesn't help that her phrase to "shoot them down" is so disgustingly patronizing, as well. I like Deadpan Snarkers, who specilize in shooting people down with sarcastic comments. Iris just isn't that good of one.



    But again, that makes for an interesting character- if you actually do something with it. Which the writers seems to have forgotten to do.

    I like Iris potential as a character, I like the fact that she has a mean streak. But if the writers just show it without acknowledging it, it takes away from the show.
     
  7. RickHoenn

    RickHoenn Banned

    ^^
    You cannot be for real dude, right? You're nitpicking on such things, it makes you look crazy and beyond obsessive, come on now.

    Now Iris is a bully, dear lord hahaha. Friends tease each other almost all the time...
     
  8. RWB

    RWB Dragon busted by Her

    Seeing flaws in a character and wanting the writers to actually use them? Blasphemy!


    Also, Iris has, at several points come off as a bully. It's in the show, deal with it. Ash getting over it doesn't change the fact that she did it. Neither does it make the "humiliate by identity theft on film(supposed to be produced)" moment okay.

    Not to mention this isn't nitpicking, at all. Stop trying to belittle me, because now you are being patronizing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2012
  9. Sushi

    Sushi unspecified Staff Member Super Mod

    No, it's not about that any more. I'm willing to bet some people here are satisfied with certain characters getting knocked down at every chance without them changing - because change has the possibility of removing the source of their complaints which would obviously be horrifying.

    It's safe to say that the characters have presented most of their facets for now, disregarding future development for now. So if you're looking at the very essence of a character and don't like it, it's very unlikely that you're going to like it in the future. And that's okay. It's a shame, but it's okay. However, there's something deeply disturbing when someone voices their satisfaction about a character's defeat, the more crushing the better. I'm not one to engage in impossible missions, ergo I won't even attempt to get everyone to play nice and friendly with each other, which would, of course, also be horrifying. That doesn't stop one from pointing out that thinly veiled character bashing is still character bashing and might get infracted if taken to extremes, though.
    I'm sorry, but this is just downright disturbing. A little girl pulls a childish prank on a girl clearly older than her. Older girl is annoyed by said antics and snaps at younger girl for it, but, clearly unshaken in her self-confidence, continues to approach younger girl and tease her, evoking various reactions ranging from annoyance to motivated proclamations that she'll defeat her. Unless I was comatose when I got my criminal law credit last year, I'd say the amount of criminality - from both sides - in this situation was below zero.

    Your bully theory might've had a leg to stand on if we saw Georgia - or anyone - actually feeling bullied. Becoming insecure hearing Iris' words. Letting herself be intimidated. Getting attacked by Iris despite efforts to stay away from her. That's simply not the case. I'm pretty sure Georgia actually likes Iris to an extent. She doesn't feel threatened by anything Iris says or does because she has no reason to. Iris scares no one and she clearly has no intention of scaring anyone either. I realize Iris is an ambiguous character who clearly isn't everyone's cup of tea. She's prone to being disliked. She can easily catch people on the wrong foot and be perceived as annoying, I'll give you that. But she's not a bully. That's simply going too far.

    Anyhow, can we please discuss this elsewhere, if at all? This is getting way too much about general character discussions and this simply isn't the place for that. I realize I'm at fault for this as well and for that I apologize. It's really time to end this though, at least in this thread.

    ---

    I really, really like the Georgia/Burgundy duo. Especially Burgundy with her blue "I'm-in-such-a-bad-mood" aura, wishing for irrational things like curses or that nobody wins the championship. Even Georgia was disturbed... only to join her later after she lost as well 8D They both look so cute in pouting mode.

    Another moment that strangely made me laugh was when Masaomi refused training with Ash and Stepheyn. He and Throh'd turned their backs on them and were walking away already, when suddenly, the rocks around them give a loud bang and become smaller, for seemingly no reason at all. They didn't even crumble into pieces as the result of an aftershock, part of them just exploded and disappeared into thin air. What was that about?

    Speaking of Stephan... Yukgaejang? What? Poor guy's name is slowly drowning in the world of asian cooking.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2012
  10. Spider-Phoenix

    Spider-Phoenix Go, Go Power Rangers

    Well, I don't think Iris is mean. I think it's just her way to have fun with her friends.

    This. So much.
     
  11. Lorde

    Lorde Banned

    That's the only reason why I'm here to be honest.

    But to be quite honest, I'm very upset that Trip lost; not because Bianca defeated him, but because he continues to become more and more weak/irrelevant as this series progresses. I was also upset about Cilan and Pansage; why is it that Cilan only wins a battle when he's using his Crustle? I just really dislike the writers and their favoritism. As for Iris and Excadrill, I hope that people stop complaining about them now that they've lost. It seems like everyone thinks of them as being invincible, but that's obviously not true.
     
  12. AuraChannelerChris

    AuraChannelerChris "Am I supposed to laugh?"

  13. Raptor_Crow

    Raptor_Crow I lied to you all

    Nope, Cilan didn't get to do his tasting because Stephan interrupted it by having Sawk use Karate Chop on Pansage. Cilan lost because Sawk is a strong opponent, Stephan didn't need Cilan to explain his battle style.
     
  14. AgentPierce

    AgentPierce Mad science FTW!

    I find it hilarious that Graham Aker is pushing for Iris to learn humility and get "proper development" since she's "had so little", when his userpic is of Paul, who just might be the poster child for bad character development in the Pokemon anime, with a smugass smirk on his face.

    I've said it before, so here it is again: if Trip had WON and won frequently, people would call foul because he's a being a Paul clone and "too invincible for a rookie trainer".

    I don't buy that Trip is becoming weak and irrelevant at all; his character is developing naturally. This fandom just has a ridiculous ingrained bias against him.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2012
  15. That doesn't make Iris any better.
     
  16. AgentPierce

    AgentPierce Mad science FTW!

    It's not a matter of whether Iris is any better or not.

    If you're flaunting a userpic of PAUL, then you yourself have no grounds to say anyone needs development or has to learn humility.
     
  17. JennaJayfeather

    JennaJayfeather jflkdjkfgjafgaf

    Well to be fair Paul is a rival. It is a bit weird to have an overconfident character on the main cast...so that can (depending on the person) can make some uncomfortable. Kind of funny that Dento/Iris/Trip/Langely/Cabernet have all been shown to be a bit cocky xD isn't it funny how they show Americans (I've heard from people that we seem a bit prideful)? xD
     
  18. pokefandt

    pokefandt Well-Known Member

    Yikes Pansage and Excadrill got murdered out there.

    The Bisharp vs Emboar battle was way too bloody short for the title match of the whole episode, come on writers really.
     
  19. Quintsa

    Quintsa Roblox FTW

    I wonder whos gonna win the tournement *rolls eyes*

    Stephan wins the tournement. The end. Thats why he pwned cilan
     
  20. Grey Wind

    Grey Wind Only rescues maidens

    Um. No. You're taking this show far too seriously. She's ten. She was teasing, and Georgia teased back. Just because Georgia is your favourite character (who has done her fair share of teasing) doesn't mean that Iris is evil.

    These forums sometimes...

    Agreed, I've always loved those two. I wish they'd appear outside of the tournaments though :/ I also love how they seem (to me, at least) to be portrayed as good friends because their rivals travel together. They're always shown eating together, and they're a great duo.

    I find it hilarious that you're entire argument is based on a member's avatar. Grasping for straws, much?

    You say that Paul had no development at all, yet you say that Trip does? Trip has done very little in the anime so far. The only time he got anything in regards to development was with Alder. And you seriously think that that is more than Paul? Obviously, Trip hasn't finished his run on the show, but I remember Paul having a hell of a lot of development. His brother, Chimchar, his training methods, gradually gaining respect for Ash and Infernape, his loss to Brandon... no development?

    And you have ridiculous ingrained bias towards him.
     

Share This Page