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A Fire Battle! Marowak Shows Up! (977)

Xuxuba

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure what you are saying here. The writers didn't replace any of the other trials. We saw the Brooklet Hill Trial in SM33 (Lana may have been the one to complete it instead of Ash, but we still saw it), and we are going to see the Lush Jungle Trial (which it seems Ash is going to complete) in SM35. After SM35, we will have seen all of the Akala Island Trials except for the Wela Volcano Trial. Since the Trials are akin to Gyms in SM, I still believe we are going to see the Wela Volcano Trial and Totem Salazzle at some point. As of right now, it seems that is going to be after Olivia's Grand Trial in SM36.

I wouldn't really define that as a trial since it wasn't a task that a trainer had to do in order to progress in the island challenge.
Ash and Lana just randomly decided to fish somewhere and a Wishiwashi happened to appear there.
IMO, it was more of a nod to the games than a trial per se.
 

Akkipeddi

Materia Hunter
I wouldn't really define that as trials since it wasn't a task that a trainer had to do in order to progress in the island challenge.
Ash and Lana just randomly decided to fish and a Wishiwashi happened to appear there.
IMO, it was more of a nod to the games than a trial per se.

That's true actually. I don't think Ash is even taking the Island Challenge since it hasn't been been explicitly stated that Ash is formally an Island Challenger. He's just trying to collect Z Crystals to use and that's why he might be trying to challenge Olivia since Gladion did tell him about the Rockium Z.
 
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Satomine Night

The Power of Z!
I wouldn't really define that as trials since it wasn't a task that a trainer had to do in order to progress in the island challenge.
Ash and Lana just randomly decided to fish somewhere and a Wishiwashi happened to appear there.
IMO, it was more of a nod to the games than a trial per se.
Or it was the anime's version of a Trial. We already know that Trials in the anime are different than Trials in the games. There are no Trial Captains to conduct the Trials and reward Island Challengers with Z-Crystals; instead, the task of rewarding Z-Crystals is in the paws/fins/feelers of the Totem Pokémon, and at their discretion (recall that Hala said Totem Pokémon don't usually reward Island Challengers with Z-Crystals).

Remember, in the games, the battle against the Totem Pokémon is just part of a Trial--the final task--and Totem Pokémon are trained by the Trial Captains for that purpose. In the anime, it's different. IIRC, Hala said Totem Pokémon obey the will of the Tapu guardians and assist in the Island Challenge. No mention has been made of them being trained by humans for that purpose. Since there are no Trial Captains in the anime, Trials can't be conducted the same way. Hala conducting the Verdant Cave Trial might have been an exception, rather than the standard, as a way of introducing Trials and Totem Pokémon in the anime.

That's true actually. I don't think Ash is even taking the Island Challenge since it hasn't been been explicitly stated that Ash is formally an Island Challenger. He's just trying to collect Z Crystals to use and that's why he might be trying to challenge Olivia since Gladion did tell him about the Rockium Z.
It was explicitly stated that Ash is an Island Challenger--by Ash himself in SM09, when he first met Hala. In fact, he introduced himself to Hala as an Island Challenger.
 
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Akkipeddi

Materia Hunter
It was explicitly stated that Ash is an Island Challenger--by Ash himself in SM09, when he first met Hala. In fact, he introduced himself to Hala as an Island Challenger.

OK then I stand corrected. But still, to me personally, the pacing and manner of handling the Trials has been kind of weird and underwhelming. I can't understand putting them back to back and rushing them.
 

Satomine Night

The Power of Z!
OK then I stand corrected. But still, to me personally, the pacing and manner of handling the Trials has been kind of weird and underwhelming. I can't understand putting them back to back and rushing them.
I agree that the pacing and handling of the Trials has been kind of weird, but I'm going to be optimistic and give the writers the benefit of the doubt and assume/hope that they are planning something.
 
Y'know, I don't think the replacement of Totem Salazzle was unjustified, considering that it's the signature Pokemon of Plumeria. It actually makes a lot of sense to me, especially considering how Marowak has a connection to the Fire Trial and so makes a good replacement for it.
 

Nebbygetinthebag

Well-Known Member
This episode was good.There some development for kiawe,The battle with Marowak was great and Hiker David photobombing was hilarious.Overall this episode was good,The battle with Ash vs Kiawe was decent.I give it a 8/10.
 

Satomine Night

The Power of Z!
Y'know, I don't think the replacement of Totem Salazzle was unjustified, considering that it's the signature Pokemon of Plumeria. It actually makes a lot of sense to me, especially considering how Marowak has a connection to the Fire Trial and so makes a good replacement for it.
Except Totem Salazzle hasn't been replaced, because as far as I could tell, this episode was unrelated to the Wela Volcano Trial. This episode was about Alolan Marowak and Kiawe, centered around an Akala Island festival; I don't think it had anything to do with the Trials. There is still a chance we will see Totem Salazzle.
 

Xuxuba

Well-Known Member
Or it was the anime's version of a Trial. We already know that Trials in the anime are different than Trials in the games.
I was referring to the anime's version of trials though.
In the anime, Rotom said that grand trials come after the smaller trials.
So, IMO, if it's not a task required to face the kahuna and Ash can just skip it, then it's not really one of the smaller trials.

There are no Trial Captains to conduct the Trials and reward Island Challengers with Z-Crystals; instead, the task of rewarding Z-Crystals is in the paws/fins/feelers of the Totem Pokémon, and at their discretion (recall that Hala said Totem Pokémon don't usually reward Island Challengers with Z-Crystals).

Just because someone receives a Z-Crystal doesn't mean that person completed a Trial. After all, correlation doesn't prove causation.
Yes, the totem pokemon appeared and yes, the z-crystal did too. But does that make it a trial? Not really.
 
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Satomine Night

The Power of Z!
I was referring to the anime's version of trial though.
In the anime, Hala said that in order to face the Kahuna, Ash had to complete the island's trial first.
Then, IMO, if it's not a task required to beat the kahuna and Ash can just skip it, then it's not really a trial.
When did Hala explicitly state that Ash had to complete the Trial before he could face him, the Kahuna, in the Grand Trial? As as I have been able to find, he never said such a thing. He said his question for Ash (regarding how to solve the problem of the Rattata and Raticate infestation) was a test to see if Ash had what it takes to participate in the Island Challenge, but he never said the Trial was a prerequisite to the Grand Trial.

Let's say the all the Kahunas test new Island Challengers. Even then, Olivia has no reason to test Ash herself to see if he is worthy of taking on the trials, as she can assume, based on his Z-Ring (which she probably recognizes as one designed by Hala), that Hala already tested him.

Just because someone receives a Z-Crystal doesn't mean that person completed a Trial. After all, correlation doesn't prove causation.
Yes, the totem pokemon appeared and yes the z-crystal did too. But does that make it a trial? Not really.
Just because someone receives a Z-Crystal doesn't mean he or she has not completed a Trial, either. There are no Trial Captains to conduct Trials or reward Z-Crystals, and Totem Pokémon obey the will of the island's guardian Tapu, not of humans. Who's to say the Totem Pokémon aren't conducting Trials in their own way? Who's to say that, in Totem Wishiwashi's eyes, Lana didn't pass some sort of trial?
 

Xuxuba

Well-Known Member
When did Hala explicitly state that Ash had to complete the Trial before he could face him, the Kahuna, in the Grand Trial? As as I have been able to find, he never said such a thing. He said his question for Ash (regarding how to solve the problem of the Rattata and Raticate infestation) was a test to see if Ash had what it takes to participate in the Island Challenge, but he never said the Trial was a prerequisite to the Grand Trial.

Let's say the all the Kahunas test new Island Challengers. Even then, Olivia has no reason to test Ash herself to see if he is worthy of taking on the trials, as she can assume, based on his Z-Ring (which she probably recognizes as one designed by Hala), that Hala already tested him.


Just because someone receives a Z-Crystal doesn't mean he or she has not completed a Trial, either. There are no Trial Captains to conduct Trials or reward Z-Crystals, and Totem Pokémon obey the will of the island's guardian Tapu, not of humans. Who's to say the Totem Pokémon aren't conducting Trials in their own way? Who's to say that, in Totem Wishiwashi's eyes, Lana didn't pass some sort of trial?
Oh sorry, it was actually Rotom the one who did, back in SM09.

He said "Only those who have first passed a trial can take on the grand trial". He wasn't just talking about Hala's grand trial, he was talking about grand trials in general.
 
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Soniman

Break the Limit
Good episode this week, nice growth for kiwae, a good capture and a good battle, thats all I wanted
 

Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
Lana's case is an iffy one, but personally I count it as a trial. Olivia sent Lana and Ash to the Brooklet Hill with the mention that they might find a Totem pokémon there. It may not be as officially stated as with Hala's trial, but to me it does seem as if Olivia intended for Lana or Ash to battle Wishiwashi. Wishiwashi was then treated by Lana and Lana also managed the first quest from the old guy (he was like a make-shift trial captain I guess) by capturing Feebas. Together this resulted in Wishiwashi accepting Lana as a worthy challenger. Olivia also knew that Lana had just found a Z-ring but didn't have a Z-crystal yet. It wouldn't surprise me if she sent Lana purposefully in the direction of a trial for her to obtain a Z-crystal.
 

Xuxuba

Well-Known Member
Lana's case is an iffy one, but personally I count it as a trial. Olivia sent Lana and Ash to the Brooklet Hill with the mention that they might find a Totem pokémon there. It may not be as officially stated as with Hala's trial, but to me it does seem as if Olivia intended for Lana or Ash to battle Wishiwashi. Wishiwashi was then treated by Lana and Lana also managed the first quest from the old guy (he was like a make-shift trial captain I guess) by capturing Feebas. Together this resulted in Wishiwashi accepting Lana as a worthy challenger. Olivia also knew that Lana had just found a Z-ring but didn't have a Z-crystal yet. It wouldn't surprise me if she sent Lana purposefully in the direction of a trial for her to obtain a Z-crystal.

That is one way to see it, but, personally, i think she just mentioned it because the pokemon lived there and she wanted them to be careful while fishing.
It's hard for me to consider it as a trial when the word was never mentioned, none of the characters expressed any intentions of completing a trial and Lana was just out there fishing when the Wishiwashis attacked her (probably because they were angry after TR hurt their friend). Sure she received the z crystal after that but TR is the living proof that you don't need to beat a trial to receive a z-crystal.
Anyway, that is why i consider it more of a nod to the games than a trial.
 
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Satomine Night

The Power of Z!
That is one way to see it, but, personally, i think she just mentioned it because the pokemon lived there and she wanted them to be careful while fishing.
I just can't consider it as a trial when the word was never even mentioned, none of the characters actually expressed any intentions of completing a trial and Lana was just out there fishing when the Wishiwashis attacked her because they were angry after TR hurt their friend. Sure she received the z crystal after that but TR is the living proof that you don't need to beat a trial to receive a z-crystal.
No, Olivia specifically suggested Ash and Lana go to that lake and try to catch the Lord of the Lake. I have a feeling Olivia is aware the Lord of the Lake is a Totem Pokémon (she is the Island Kahuna, after all, and just as Hala knew where Totem Gumshoos lived, it makes sense that she knows where her island's Totem Pokémon live). She made that suggestion after Lana seemed unsure of whether or not she truly deserved the Z-Ring, so it's possible Olivia encouraged her to go to that lake so the Totem Wishiwashi could test her. Just because the word "trial" was never mentioned doesn't mean it wasn't a trial and Olivia wasn't just being subtle or manipulative.

Team Rocket's situation is different. They essentially stole the Darknium-Z; it just so happens that they (or, rather, Jessie's bloodthirsty Mimikyu) defeated Totem Raticate in the process. Whether or not that means they truly earned it is up for interpretation.
 

Xuxuba

Well-Known Member
No, Olivia specifically suggested Ash and Lana go to that lake and try to catch the Lord of the Lake.

Well, if she didn't actually mention a totem pokemon, she just told them to catch a big fish called the Lord of Lake, then i can't say i'm convinced that was definetly a trial, especially since she used the word catch and not defeat.


I have a feeling Olivia is aware the Lord of the Lake is a Totem Pokémon (she is the Island Kahuna, after all, and just as Hala knew where Totem Gumshoos lived, it makes sense that she knows where her island's Totem Pokémon live). She made that suggestion after Lana seemed unsure of whether or not she truly deserved the Z-Ring, so it's possible Olivia encouraged her to go to that lake so the Totem Wishiwashi could test her. Just because the word "trial" was never mentioned doesn't mean it wasn't a trial and Olivia wasn't just being subtle or manipulative.

Team Rocket's situation is different. They essentially stole the Darknium-Z; it just so happens that they (or, rather, Jessie's bloodthirsty Mimikyu) defeated Totem Raticate in the process. Whether or not that means they truly earned it is up for interpretation.
That's one way to see it, but, at least, you'd have to agree with me that you can't say for certain it was a trial, like you did here:
The writers didn't replace any of the other trials. We saw the Brooklet Hill Trial in SM33 (Lana may have been the one to complete it instead of Ash, but we still saw it), and we are going to see the Lush Jungle Trial (which it seems Ash is going to complete) in SM35. After SM35, we will have seen all of the Akala Island Trials except for the Wela Volcano Trial. Since the Trials are akin to Gyms in SM, I still believe we are going to see the Wela Volcano Trial and Totem Salazzle at some point. As of right now, it seems that is going to be after Olivia's Grand Trial in SM36.
 
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Satomine Night

The Power of Z!
That's one way to see it, but, at least, you'd have to agree with me that you can't say for certain it was a trial, like you did here:
Did you misread my post that you quoted? I said I do believe the battle against Totem Wishiwashi in SM33 was the Brooklet Hill Trial--just that Lana completed that Trial instead of Ash. So, no, I don't agree with you.
 

TheWanderingMist

Paladin of the Snow Queen
As expected, Hiker David was the best part of the episode. I still wish my Salazzle jumping them theory had panned out. I guess we know all of Kiawe's Pokemon's move, bar Charizard, who isn't a battler anyway. I know the anime isn't the games but Kiawe used Shell Smash and then a -6 priority move, negating the entire point. Hiker David ending was perfect. Other than that, eh, didn't really care about it that much. What was the point of the crown? Some sort of placebo effect?

Regarding the Z-crystal theory about them evolving, while I'm unsure about the starters/Togedemaru/Turonator/Tsareena(Steenee)[that's a lot of T's] getting their own Z-crystals through the "evolving Z-crystal theory", I'm more positive than ever that Ash's Electrium-Z will become Pikashunium-Z through a phenomenon similar to evolution or however Ash-Greninja worked. All you have to do is look at the crystal to see it's the only one that's different.
 
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1rkhachatryan

Call me Robert guys
I'm more surprised they actually put in the game stat lowering and rising animation lol, I can't remember ever seeing it before.
 

doofinc

Elite Four
I'm more surprised they actually put in the game stat lowering and rising animation lol, I can't remember ever seeing it before.

They've used it before in XY&Z with Tierno/Ash vs. Sawyer whenever they physically came in contact with Aegislash's King's Shield
 
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