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A Fire Battle! Marowak Shows Up! (977)

ShadowForce720

Well-Known Member
From what we saw, Turtonator was terribly outclassed. I'm judging from what we saw, and it was clear that Turtonator was no match whatsoever for Pikachu.

Again that was a training match. And plus we never saw the outcome of that battle. You can't say that oh well this pokemon has a weakness that can easily be exploited so that means that it must be weak, because having a weakness is not the same thing as being weak so it's not indicator of ones strength.
 
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345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
Again that was a training match. And plus we never saw the outcome of that battle.

I know that, but implications of a Pokemon's strength can be drawn brom a practice battle. Since that battle was not fully shown it's highly probable that the two didn't complete the battle and left it unfinished.
 
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ShadowForce720

Well-Known Member
I know that, but implications of a Pokemon's strength can be drawn brom a practice battle. Since that battle was not fully shown it's highly probable that the two didn't complete the battle and left in unfinished.


Not really, as the pokemon could just be holding back as the purpose of the battle was just for Kiawe and his Turtonator to be able to figure out a way to counter Alolan Marowak's speed.
 
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345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
Not really, as the pokemon could just be holding back.

They were practising for amending Turtonator's speed problem, so probably not. Plus Kiawe isn't an E4 or Champion, so why should he hold back?
 

ShadowForce720

Well-Known Member
They were practising for amending Turtonator's speed problem, so probably not. Plus Kiawe isn't an E4 and Champion, so why should he hold back?

Because the purpose of the training battle was just to figure out a way to fix the speed problem and it was not knocked out Pikachu. Plus you don't have to be an E4 member or a Champion to hold back.
 

345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
Because the purpose of the training battle was just to figure out a way to fix the speed problem and it was not knocked out Pikachu. Plus you don't have to be an E4 member or a Champion to hold back.

Generally E4 and Champions are shown to hold back in this show. Plus as the battle was a test for improving Turtonator's speed, they won't be able create the amount of pressure needed for improvement if they didn't tryhard.
 
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345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
Either way it doesn't mean Turtonator isn't strong.

It won't say isn't strong, but compared to Pikachu at this point I would say it's comparatively weak.
 
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ShadowForce720

Well-Known Member
It won't say wasnst strong, but compared to Pikachu at this point I would say it's comparatively weak.

We don't know how they fully stack up against each other because we seen them have a actual full battle against each other where the goal would be to knock each other out. And plus Pikachu has 6 regions worth of experience built into so of course some of the other pokemon would seem weak when compared to it, but that still doesn't change the point that Turtonator is still a strong pokemon.
 

Akkipeddi

Materia Hunter
It won't say wasnst strong, but compared to Pikachu at this point I would say it's comparatively weak.

Well Turtonator definitely isn't as strong as Pikachu, but that's an unfair comparison anyway, since at this point, Pikachu would fry every companions Pokémon given the big difference in power and experience of Pikachu and everyone else's Pokémon. Turtonator being weaker than Pikachu doesn't mean it's weak, but rather, Pikachu is just that strong.

Anyway, Pikachu vs Turtonator wasn't even a real battle since Ash was only helping Turtonator to try and overcome issues against speedy Pokémon, so this isn't an accurate way to gauge Turtonator's capabilities.
 
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345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
We don't know how they fully stack up against each other because we seen them have a actual full battle against each other where the goal would be to knock each other out. And plus Pikachu has 6 regions worth of experience built into so of course some of the other pokemon would seem weak when compared to it, but that still doesn't change the point that Turtonator is still a strong pokemon.
I would say Turtonator is obviously stronger than the Pokemon of the other cast members except Ash. But that's it.

Well definitely Turtonator isn't as strong as Pikachu, but that's an unfair comparison anyway, since at this point, Pikachu would fry every companions Pokémon given the big difference in power and experience of Pikachu and everyone else's Pokémon. Turtonator being weaker than Pikachu doesn't mean it's weak, but rather, Pikachu is just that strong.

Anyway, Pikachu vs Turtonator wasn't even a real battle since Ash was only helping Turtonator to try and overcome issues against speedy Pokémon.
Pretty much this. Though without tryharding they won't be able to create the pressure needede for the improvement, so I'd assume they were tryharding.
 

ShadowForce720

Well-Known Member
I would say Turtonator is obviously stronger than the Pokemon of the other cast members except Ash. But that's it.


Pretty much this. Though without tryharding they won't be able to create the pressure needede for the improvement, so I'd assume they were tryharding.

I'm sorry but no matter how you look at it Litten, Rowlet, Rockruff are not stronger then Turtonator right now.
 

345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
I'm sorry but no matter how you look at it Litten, Rowlet, Rockruff are not stronger then Turtonator right now.

I won't be so sure about that. If either one of Rowlet, Litten and Rockruff beats a Totem soon(Litten most probably will), I'd say something otherwise.
 

ShadowForce720

Well-Known Member
I won't be so sure about that. If either one of Rowlet, Litten and Rockruff beats a Totem soon(Litten most probably will), I'd say something otherwise.

Don't kid yourself here, there not stronger then Turtonator, just because they beat Totem Lurantis does not make them stronger then Turtonator.
 

345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
Don't kid yourself here, there not stronger then Turtonator, just because they beat Totem Lurantis does not make them stronger then Turtonator.

Totems are quite powerful naturally. And moreover, if Rowlet and Rockruff pull off a win against Olivia then I'll definitely say they can be stronger.
 
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ShadowForce720

Well-Known Member
Totem are quite powerful naturally. And moreover, if Rowlet and Rockruff pull off a win against Olivia then I'll definitely say they can be stronger.

Again that wouldn't necessarily mean there stronger then Turtonator, as there are more factors that go into determining the winner of a battle for instance let's say for arguments sake Rowlet and Rockruff manage to win in episode 36, given from what we know if they do win again Oliva's pokemon in episode 36 it wouldn't be because there stronger then the opposing pokemon, but it would instead be because they used a better strategy then their oppenents or using some other advantage.
 
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345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
Again that wouldn't necessarily mean there stronger then Turtonator, as there are more factors that go into determining the winner of a battle for instance let's say for arguments sake Rowlet and Rockruff manage to win in episode 36, given from what we know if they do win again Oliva's pokemon in episode 36 it wouldn't be because there stronger then the opposing pokemon, but it would instead be because they used a better strategy then their oppenents or using some other advantage.

Well Olivia would be a hell of a tough Kahuna I bet. Pulling off a win against her would be an incredible task, and achieving that would place them higher, even if so by strategy. For example, Pikachu wasn't as strong as Tobias's Latios, but due to Ash's strategy the draw it pulled off makes many fans consider that it was Ash's strongest Pokemon upto that point.
 

ShadowForce720

Well-Known Member
Well Olivia would be a hell of a tough Kahuna I bet. Pulling off a win against her would be an incredible task, and achieving that would place them higher, even if so by strategy. For example, Pikachu wasn't as strong as Tobias's Latios, but due to Ash's strategy the draw it pulled off makes many fans consider that it was Ash's strongest Pokemon upto that point.

Your comparing apples to oranges here, you do realize at that time Pikachu had 4 regions worth of experience so compared to Ash's other pokemon it was that far out there to think that Pikachu was probably his strongest pokemon, however in this case Rowlet, and Rockruff don't even have a full region worth of experience let alone multiple regions worth so you can't compare the two situations and say they are the same.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Some great fighters can be really put off their game when put in a strategy they are unused to. Remember what happened to Torterra.

Turtonator was used to just being able to tank all speedy opponents because that is the usual ratio of things; speedy but weaker Pokemon. I suspect he could sumo stronger slower Pokemon (actually I'd love to see a battle like that in action). This episode was about Kaiwe having to work out of his usual comfort zone with Turtonator.
 
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345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
Your comparing apples to oranges here, you do realize at that time Pikachu had 4 regions worth of experience so compared to Ash's other pokemon it was that far out there to think that Pikachu was probably his strongest pokemon, however in this case Rowlet, and Rockruff don't even have a full region worth of experience let alone multiple regions worth so you can't compare the two situations and say they are the same.

Without that Latios feat, I doubt fans would have considered Pikachu Ash's strongest upto that point.

And though Rowlet and Rockruff aren't experienced, but pulling of a win against Olivia would mean that the assessment of their strength would be quite different after that.
 
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