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A Full-Strength Battle Surprise! (922)

1rkhachatryan

Call me Robert guys
Well this battle was a load of crap served up real good and really didn't how Sawyer's progress at all.

Doublade was still lame as hell and for all intensive purposes lost in one hit. Sceptile was Sceptile so that was believable but for Ash to not even land one hit on him was crap, I mean really.

Clawitzer was literal DEM served up on a platter. Oh we know the rest of Sawyer's pokemon are noobs and can't touch Ash so let's give him one that's OP from the beginning so that he actually looks strong without us putting in any effort.

The writers solution for showing that Sawyer improved was for him to basically do to Ash what Ash has been doing to him, one hit KO his other pokemon. Noivern and Hawlucha literally both got one hit KO'd. Even worse is that they had Noivern survive two attacks but made Hawlucha die in one. Really?? The pokemon who only has two battles under his belt lasted longer then his trained "father". Seriously what kind of crap was this??

And on top of all of that mess, they had Sawyer beat Olympia and Wulfric(is seems to be toying with Ash in the next episode and barely trying).
 

AshSerena

Well-Known Member
Xerosic grew some vines with his cell-powered weapon and chased away Officer Jenny and some people. Lysandre said something to the Blue Core.

Squishy tried to contact Blue Core but seemingly couldn't and Bonnie asked it if it was worried about something. Then she sang her stupid song and calmed Squishy down.

Lysandre saying Blue Puni chan turn is more later on,(then goes away)
well i think Shota did a fair good fight againts Ash, i mean Shota use normal sceptile againts Ash who trying to fight using AshGreninja
and i think Ash is relying too much on this power...

and lol Ash's asking himself why he can(transform) able to do it on the first place.
now i cant wait to see Mega Sceptile vs AshGreninja
 
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Janovy

Banned
Clawitzer was literal DEM served up on a platter. Oh we know the rest of Sawyer's pokemon are noobs and can't touch Ash so let's give him one that's OP from the beginning so that he actually looks strong without us putting in any effort. .
It lost after a single blow dealt by Greninja's cut, and it wasn't even Ash-Greninja. Not so much OP.

Clawitzer has a good moveset and its ability only makes it more powerful. Not to mention they made it so it can use Heal Pulse to heal itself (which again is improved by the ability Mega Launcher).
 

Lucario At Service

Calm Trainer
So did Ash fail to sync with Greninja (did the frog transfom?)

Greninja didn't transform, but was close to transforming in a sense.

As for Ash, it seems that he couldn't connect with Greninja at all, and it was the reason why the Sync didn't occur at all.

or did he "purposedly" (the winking at Pikachu someone mentioned?) "hide" the form to Sawyer?

Rather than hide it from Sawyer, it felt more like hiding it from everyone so that they don't worry too much about it.

I think that Ash understands that the Sync with Greninja puts a lots of pressure on him both mentally and physically. And i guess that he also knows that at least Clemont has that idea as well.

So, most likely he hide the facts to not cause them to worry about him.
 

Xuxuba

Well-Known Member
Wow it seemed like a great match, can't wait to see it!

It's perfect that Ash lost now. I know many people complain about Sawyer's progress but I personnaly find it realistic that he should win at least once. (That Clawitzer looked like a beast)
4 "challenges" for Greninja, 4 losses... It all makes sense!

So did Ash fail to sync with Greninja (did the frog transfom?) or did he "purposedly" (the winking at Pikachu someone mentioned?) "hide" the form to Sawyer?

Yeah, i'm fine with Sawyer's progress too. His progress was gradual, everytime he appeared, he was a bit stronger. Sure, he kept losing, but everytime they battled, he lasted a bit more than the last one. His bond with Sceptile is nothing to scoff at and Sceptile already proved to be a strong pokemon, even in his firsts battles against Ash.

I don't mind that some of the development was off-screen. Considering he is a rival and not a main character, he can't appear in every single episode, so off-screen development was bound to happen, but i'm glad he still took some time until he was able to defeat Ash , unlike Trip.

Besides, there is also the fact that Ash's trying to figure out how Greninja's transformation works and that became a disadvantage, because he was more concerned with transforming Greninja than paying attention to the battle.
 

AshSerena

Well-Known Member
Wow it seemed like a great match, can't wait to see it!

It's perfect that Ash lost now. I know many people complain about Sawyer's progress but I personnaly find it realistic that he should win at least once. (That Clawitzer looked like a beast)
4 "challenges" for Greninja, 4 losses... It all makes sense!

So did Ash fail to sync with Greninja (did the frog transfom?) or did he "purposedly" (the winking at Pikachu someone mentioned?) "hide" the form to Sawyer?

i think the way he wink is to hide frustrating that he lose to Shota
 

1rkhachatryan

Call me Robert guys
It lost after a single blow dealt by Greninja's cut, and it wasn't even Ash-Greninja. Not so much OP.

Clawitzer has a good moveset and its ability only makes it more powerful. Not to mention they made it so it can use Heal Pulse to heal itself (which again is improved by the ability Mega Launcher).
Power wise it was OP as heck.

It healed itself after barely being hit by one Boomburst and literally one hit ko'd two of Ash's pokemon.
 

Rohanator

Well-Known Member
Power wise it was OP as heck.

It healed itself after barely being hit by one Boomburst and literally one hit ko'd two of Ash's pokemon.
Noivern got hit by Doublade's Slash beforehand and Dragon Pulse is super effective and boosted by Mega Laucher, so I see no issues with that. Hawlucha could've used another hit, but still, a close range (that matters in the anime, Shota specifically waited for it) Ice Beam, super effective, strong move in its own right, I'm not mad about that either. +There was more focus on Shota's strategic abilities than sheer power, using Dragon Pulse for quick movement and saving Ice Beam for the last second.
 

Lunanight

Well-Known Member
Well this battle was a load of crap served up real good and really didn't how Sawyer's progress at all.

Doublade was still lame as hell and for all intensive purposes lost in one hit. Sceptile was Sceptile so that was believable but for Ash to not even land one hit on him was crap, I mean really.

Clawitzer was literal DEM served up on a platter. Oh we know the rest of Sawyer's pokemon are noobs and can't touch Ash so let's give him one that's OP from the beginning so that he actually looks strong without us putting in any effort.

The writers solution for showing that Sawyer improved was for him to basically do to Ash what Ash has been doing to him, one hit KO his other pokemon. Noivern and Hawlucha literally both got one hit KO'd. Even worse is that they had Noivern survive two attacks but made Hawlucha die in one. Really?? The pokemon who only has two battles under his belt lasted longer then his trained "father". Seriously what kind of crap was this??

And on top of all of that mess, they had Sawyer beat Olympia and Wulfric(is seems to be toying with Ash in the next episode and barely trying).

Honestly, I think you are really bitter that Ash isn't winning every single battle that he's ever in. I don't know why you weren't expecting Sawyer to win given how the anime has been setting Ash up for a streak of losses. I don't know how Sawyer beating Ash wouldn't be progress to you.

Doublade was weak as you said. Sceptile isn't any stronger than one would expect, given how in their last battle, didn't Sceptile have the advantage until Ash-Greninja wrecked him? Its not like Sceptile beat Ash-Greninja, it beat regular Greninja.

Clawitzer wasn't DEM. What is with people on the forums and misusing the word DEM? Especially given that the thing was shown to know Dragon Pulse and Ice Beam. You know, two moves that are super effective against Noivern and Hawlucha respectively coming off of a thing with high power. I don't know why you are comparing Ash OHKO'ing Sawyer's Pokemon with regular attacks to Sawyer OHKO'ing Ash's Pokemon with super effective hits and acting like they are the same thing, those situations are completely different. How would Clawitzer OHKO'ing Pokemon using super effective hits that bad?

Apparently Sawyer isn't allowed to develop given that when he did develop, you seem mad, or rather any Pokemon he has which isn't named Sceptile should be remain weak. Why are you so butthurt that Sawyer beat Olympia and Wulfric? Apparently beating Olympia and Wulfric is a bad thing. I can understand Wulfric given how he probably didn't use Mega Abomasnow (or if he did, it took Sawyer's entire team to beat it like how Ash struggled against Mega Lucario) but complaining that he beat Olympia is just dumb.

If anything, Sawyer probably didn't battle Mega Abomasnow, or Mega Abomasnow was so powerful that it took 3 Pokemon to take it down. We know he lost to Valerie once and then beat her at a later point. So perhaps he lost to Wulfric a few times before he won, we don't know since the anime doesn't tell us how many times it takes rivals to win each of their badges. I still can't get why you are annoyed that Olympia lost given how, for all intents and purposes, she is no greater than any other gym leader. She doesn't have a Mega Pokemon so there is nothing wrong with beating her, and even if Olympia had one (which she doesn't) then it still wouldn't be bad given how Ash got to beat Mega Lucario.

Power wise it was OP as heck.

It healed itself after barely being hit by one Boomburst and literally one hit ko'd two of Ash's pokemon.

You say that like OTK'ing a Pokemon with super effective hits is an impressive feat. Clawitzer OTK'd two of Ash's Pokemon with super effective moves, which makes it justifiable. Its not like it OTK'd Noivern and Clawitzer with regular attacks, unlike Greninja how OTK'd it with Cut. If Clawitzer couldn't OTK Hawlucha and Noivern with super effective moves coming off its raw power (in Dragon Pulse's case, it was boosted by Clawitzer's ability) then I would have considered it to be weak.

I don't see you complaining that power wise, Ash-Greninja was "OP as heck" the previous episode. Even if Diantha is the weakest champion both in the games and the anime, Ash-Greninja is objectively an OP mechanic, stronger than Mega Evolution, exclusive only to Ash (unless someone else uses that same Synchronization at the Kalos League, its exclusive to Ash because DEM). Ash-Greninja is the only OP thing we've seen in a while, the rest is just overrating and exaggeration. If Clawitzer is OP then that makes Ash-Greninja literally DEM.
 
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PAndrews

Well-Known Member
The bat at least got a win so I'm good. Dragon Claw and Draco Meteor were the only moves I actually saw it getting so not shocked with Dragon Claw.

Sceptile > base Greninja.

How is Sceptile > base Greninja?
Greninja was going so fast that Sceptile couldn't keep track and only landed his final KO combo because Ash froze and that distracted Greninja (you literally see him looking away just before Sceptile attacks).

This battle by no means showed Shota being superior, quite the opposite in fact since he only got the win because Ash got distracted and pretty much froze.
He actually barely showed any growth or progress really, his Doublade still got owned badly, his Sceptile needed a distracted Greninja and a new previously unseen Pokemon given a DEM power got 2 quick OHKO's before being OHKO itself by a mere cut.
 

Lucario At Service

Calm Trainer
Power wise it was OP as heck.

It healed itself after barely being hit by one Boomburst and literally one hit ko'd two of Ash's pokemon.

Well Sawyer did utilize logical moves to take them down (i.e., Noivern was taken down by Dragon Pulse and Hawlucha by Ice Beam).

Clawitzer's OP'ness doesn't originate from its power (which is actually at normal level). It originate from his mixed move-set and proper usage of its Ability.

From the start, i have always felt that Pokemon who have a mixed type move-set tend to be more powerful than Pokemon who use only a few different type moves, and focus more on same type moves. And for some reason, the writers rarely give Ash's Pokemon a mixed type move-set, and even if they give him one, most contain basic moves especially of Normal type.
 
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KHWoman

Active Member
i think the way he wink is to hide frustrating that he lose to Shota

Yes, now that I saw the episode pictures, it seems to be the case. From what somebody said I thought he winked during the battle, but it was actually after the loss, kneeling on the ground...

This arc is really well built, it's enjoyable :D
 

Lunanight

Well-Known Member
This battle by no means showed Shota being superior, quite the opposite in fact since he only got the win because Ash got distracted and pretty much froze.
He actually barely showed any growth or progress really, his Doublade still got owned badly, his Sceptile needed a distracted Greninja and a new previously unseen Pokemon given a DEM power got 2 quick OHKO's before being OHKO itself by a mere cut.

If Ash even thought about needing Ash-Greninja to beat Sawyer, Ash is inferior. Ash shouldn't need Ash-Greninja to beat Sawyer given how much more experienced he is, so the fact that he did need it only makes Ash look increasing weak. Its like how Diantha shouldn't need Mega Evolution to beat Ash yet she was forced to use it, thereby showing her weakness.

If Diantha was as good as her title suggested, she would have used regular Gardevoir to curbstomp Greninja before it could even go into Ash-Greninja (or if Diantha was actually as good as Steven/Cynthia, she would have beat Ash-Greninja with or without Mega Gardevoir). Likewise, if Ash was really that good then Greninja would have beat Sawyer's Sceptile without even attempting Synchronization to go into Ash-Greninja, it would have won before that could be a factor. The fact that Ash even thought about using Ash-Greninja against Sawyer's regular Sceptile only makes Ash look weaker, especially since Ash-Greninja is stronger than Mega Evolution. It only makes Ash look like he's relying on a crutch and I think he would come off as a better trainer when he isn't using it.

Personally, I am sick of all the focus and shilling towards Ash-Greninja over the past few months. It makes Ash too dependant on Ash-Greninja rather than winning battles with just regular Greninja or better, yet the other Pokemon on his team. Since we know the Wulfric rematch will be yet another battle to shill Ash's DEM Pokemon some more, that means we basically have another month of the thing (that isn't even getting into the League which would do it even more).
 

Xuxuba

Well-Known Member
How is Sceptile > base Greninja?
Greninja was going so fast that Sceptile couldn't keep track and only landed his final KO combo because Ash froze and that distracted Greninja (you literally see him looking away just before Sceptile attacks).

This battle by no means showed Shota being superior, quite the opposite in fact since he only got the win because Ash got distracted and pretty much froze.
He actually barely showed any growth or progress really, his Doublade still got owned badly, his Sceptile needed a distracted Greninja and a new previously unseen Pokemon given a DEM power got 2 quick OHKO's before being OHKO itself by a mere cut.

Sceptile was able to hit Greninja several times even before Ash got distracted and Sceptile's Leaf Storm did quite some damage to Greninja.
Doublade didn't "get owned badly", he was able to resist several acrobatics before he was knocked down. He wasn't able to do much damage, but that's because he is a defensive pokemon, his job is to resist attacks and leave the opponent tired making him uncapable of avoiding hits or counterattack. That and the fact that Shota brought out Clawitzer's full potential with the Mega Launcher strategy were the reasons why Clawitzer managed to defeat Noivern.

Sawyer definetly became more focused. He used to get distracted by his journal, but now he gives his full attention to the battle and Ash's the one who's getting distracted. He is also a lot more confident and decisive, taking less time to chose his moves and being able to maintain his composture even when his pokemon is being cornered. To say that he didn't progress at all is to ignore every single episode he appeared.
 
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Janovy

Banned
To say that he didn't progress at all is to ignore every single episode he appeared.
You mean every single time he lost?

Because this is his first on-screen win.
 

Rizardon

Boulder Trainer
I'm happy Noivern got a win, I suppose they made it learn Dragon Claw off-screen like Hawlucha's X-Scissor so he had more tools to work with but it's all good.

Now that Ash lost to Shota here, that should mean he's fine for the League. He'll lose, but not to Shota at the very least.
 

Pokemon Fan

Knuckle Trainer
Regarding Clawitzer, is this the first time the anime has done what the games normally do and given a Water pokemon that is lacking proper walking limbs a passive, semi-levitation ability? I'd expected anime Clawitzer to be bouncing around on its claw.
 

Lunanight

Well-Known Member
Regarding Clawitzer, is this the first time the anime has done what the games normally do and given a Water pokemon that is lacking proper walking limbs a passive, semi-levitation ability? I'd expected anime Clawitzer to be bouncing around on its claw.

IIRC, Palmer's Milotic had a semi-levitation ability in a very short movie cameo against Cynthia, though those are movies and not the anime. I think Wallace's Milotic had the same thing during the Wallace Cup, though then again Milotic is a serpent so it wouldn't have walking limbs anyway. I think Clawitzer might be the first time that a Water-type got semi-levitation outside of movies.
 

Xuxuba

Well-Known Member
You mean every single time he lost?

Because this is his first on-screen win.

I wasn't saying he didn't lose, i was saying that today's episode shows that he progressed.

Also, just because he lost those battles doesn't mean that he didn't progress at all between those fights. Each rematch he had, he was able to do more damage to Ash's team than the time before, even though he would still lose at the end.
 
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Soniman

Break the Limit
How is Sceptile > base Greninja?
Greninja was going so fast that Sceptile couldn't keep track and only landed his final KO combo because Ash froze and that distracted Greninja (you literally see him looking away just before Sceptile attacks).

This battle by no means showed Shota being superior, quite the opposite in fact since he only got the win because Ash got distracted and pretty much froze.
He actually barely showed any growth or progress really, his Doublade still got owned badly, his Sceptile needed a distracted Greninja and a new previously unseen Pokemon given a DEM power got 2 quick OHKO's before being OHKO itself by a mere cut.


I will never understand this fourm's hatred for this character.

Yes it did show Shouta being superior, he took what he learned from previous battles and implemented them into this one. Im so sick and tired of people trying to justify that a MC's loss didnt count because of whatever reasons (Serena's mistakes in Tripokalons and now this). Ash lost because he was hesitant, Shouta took advantage of that, Ash showed a breif weakness as a trainer and Shouta was perceptive enough to capatalize on it, HE WON GENUINLEY AND WHOLEHEARTEDLY, give the damn kid a break.

Like dont even whine about Shouta getting OHKOs when that's EXACTLY what Ash has done TWICE in their previous battles, this was more then deserved.

And on top of all of that mess, they had Sawyer beat Olympia and Wulfric(is seems to be toying with Ash in the next episode and barely trying).
Lets whine about Shouta getting anime only badges

now lets whine when he gets actual canon badges
 
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