A Full-Strength Battle Surprise! (922)

[diakyu]

People also need to remember this is the first time Ash tried to pull the form out instead of letting it just happen, which is likely what he does in the next episode after seeing how it didn't work here.

 

[Soniman]

In the end both acted severely out of character, since Ash is too experienced to space out like that and Shota wants to surpass Ash, not suckerpunch him for a cheap win

Ash is to experienced to ever show doubts? fears? apprehension??? He's still human you know, and he's also still ten.

 

[diakyu]

I guess any character that uses any fault of the pokemon or the trainer is a straight savage man and fighting unfair. All's fair in love and Pokemon battles.

 

[dman_dustin]

Are all trainers now required to stop in their tracks because their opponent makes a sad face and they should worry if they're feeling alright? You're really overexaggerating Ash's situation, he was visibly worried and became unfocused for a few seconds but it's not like he was freaking crippled and Shouta did the equivalent of stealing his crutches

Um yes he was he didn't join back into the battle until Greninja was hit with Leaf Storm and by then it was too late. So yes Ash was crippled by the fact Greninja wasn't Ash-Greninja.

And even if it did allow him to win, it just goes with what ASH HIMSELF TAUGHT HIM. Remember when Ash KO'd his Slurpuff while Shota was looking at his notebook? The trainer and Pokemon are one, if the trainer gets distraught the Pokemon will too. It was a legit loss.

That's THE PROBLEM. Ash knows not to rely on anything to keep battling even when things get you down.

That's A problem, Ash always fights until he's down. Being crippled by not becoming Ash-Greninja MAKES NO SENSE. Ash was not fighting his best. Had Ash continued to battle normally and LOST I would've BEEN FINE WITH IT. Sawyer ONLY beat Ash because Ash was distracted. Just like how Ritchie conveniently beat Ash because Charizard decided not to anything.

It makes it perfectly clear that these type of characters cannot legitimately defeat Ash without some special condition. Look at Cameron, as much as I despise Cameron, and while I still think his win against Ash was B.S. I still have to say it was a "legitimate" loss. There was no special condition there. I just call B.S. for overpowering Cameron's Pokemon, but otherwise it was a straight up legitimate loss.

What was so hard for Ash to be confused for a second then continue battling, get at least one shot in, followed by leaf storm and leaf blade?

Why couldn't Ash lose THAT WAY, why did he have to lose conveniently JUST BECAUSE he was shocked about Greninja not becoming Ash Greninja?

Opinons are one thing

But that doesnt mean people cant call them into question if deemed questionable

Really? So just because you disagree with someone somehow justifies questioning someone's opinion. Really? The problem is the complaints about people's opinion rather than actually discussing people's opinions.

 

[knightwolf09]

I don't think Greninja purposefully did not synch with Ash. Their not in control of it like that. I think it's just that Ash wasn't on the same page as Greninja which is why it didn't work. Also for those who are saying that Sceptile catching Greninja off guard was underhanded, what did you expect him to do, stand there and wait to get beat up? If a dude help a knife up to you, do you wait till he's done talking on the phone before trying to get away?

 

[PAndrews]

Ash is to experienced to ever show doubts? fears? apprehension??? He's still human you know, and he's also still ten.

After 5 regions he should know better then to rely on an unmastered transformation (that literally caused him to faint the last 2 times) and then completely freeze when it fails, just like Greninja should know better then to look away from his opponent mid-battle at close range.
Neither are rookies and should have known better.

 

[Master_Tyrell]

I guess any character that uses any fault of the pokemon or the trainer is a straight savage man and fighting unfair. All's fair in love and Pokemon battles.

This means that Ash had to stop battling Diantha because she clearly was not completely focused when Ash-Greninja came out, she was totally caught off guard. Ash is a cheap battler and shouldn't receive any praise for that battle.

 

[NegaiFreak]

I don't think Greninja purposefully did not synch with Ash. Their not in control of it like that. I think it's just that Ash wasn't on the same page as Greninja which is why it didn't work.

Greninja doesn't want to put Ash at risk by fainting, so I could see that as a possibility. However, that begs the question: why do they do that in the next episode?

 

[Soniman]

Um yes he was he didn't join back into the battle until Greninja was hit with Leaf Storm and by then it was too late. So yes Ash was crippled by the fact Greninja wasn't Ash-Greninjaa

It's his own fault that he choose to space out for so long, not because of some A-Greninja mishap, he wasnt physically unable to keep battling.

 

[diakyu]

Um yes he was he didn't join back into the battle until Greninja was hit with Leaf Storm and by then it was too late. So yes Ash was crippled by the fact Greninja wasn't Ash-Greninja.

I seriously don't see why this is a problem. Its not like it's Sawyer's fault Ash got distracted, it was his fault completely and it cost him the match. Also you are right about Ash and Greninja being crippled because of the lack of the form, but we all know what Sawyer and Sceptile are going to do to close that gap.

 

[PAndrews]

Um yes he was he didn't join back into the battle until Greninja was hit with Leaf Storm and by then it was too late. So yes Ash was crippled by the fact Greninja wasn't Ash-Greninja.


That's THE PROBLEM. Ash knows not to rely on anything to keep battling even when things get you down.

That's A problem, Ash always fights until he's down. Being crippled by not becoming Ash-Greninja MAKES NO SENSE. Ash was not fighting his best. Had Ash continued to battle normally and LOST I would've BEEN FINE WITH IT. Sawyer ONLY beat Ash because Ash was distracted. Just like how Ritchie conveniently beat Ash because Charizard decided not to anything.

It makes it perfectly clear that these type of characters cannot legitimately defeat Ash without some special condition. Look at Cameron, as much as I despise Cameron, and while I still think his win against Ash was B.S. I still have to say it was a "legitimate" loss. There was no special condition there. I just call B.S. for overpowering Cameron's Pokemon, but otherwise it was a straight up legitimate loss.

What was so hard for Ash to be confused for a second then continue battling, get at least one shot in, followed by leaf storm and leaf blade?

Why couldn't Ash lose THAT WAY, why did he have to lose conveniently JUST BECAUSE he was shocked about Greninja not becoming Ash Greninja?

You forget to add the worst part, Greninja is shown looking away from the battle at Ash, which Shota notices and orders the attack.
So not only did Ash have to space out, Greninja had to literally look the other way and get sucker punched for the writers to give Shota this win.

 

[PAndrews]

This means that Ash had to stop battling Diantha because she clearly was not completely focused when Ash-Greninja came out, she was totally caught off guard. Ash is a cheap battler and shouldn't receive any praise for that battle.

What? They clash attacks and Ash flatout overpowers her before fainting (and thats after both used multiple attacks).
This is Shota intentionally attacking an opponent who's back is turned to quickly get a cheap win.

The two aren't even remotely similar

 

[Satoshi & Touko]

Ash is to experienced to ever show doubts? fears? apprehension??? He's still human you know, and he's also still ten.

Haha! Not to mention if the plot calls for something to happen, then it will happen XD

 

[PAndrews]

I seriously don't see why this is a problem. Its not like it's Sawyer's fault Ash got distracted, it was his fault completely and it cost him the match. Also you are right about Ash and Greninja being crippled because of the lack of the form, but we all know what Sawyer and Sceptile are going to do to close that gap.

You mean besides it being severely out of character for both them?
Shota wants to surpass Ash, not get a cheap sucker punch win and Ash wouldn't rely on such a form or be that distracted due to its failure.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

I think the problem with the transformation is that Ash subconsciously relies TOO much on it happening that he focuses too much.

In other words... You never make a shonen hero focus MENTALLY! That's for the companions to do for him! He only needs the power of plot to make it happen, not his own brain!

...just like Greninja should know better then to look away from his opponent mid-battle at close range.
Neither are rookies and should have known better.

Actually, this happens to about just anyone in the anime for the sake of unnecessary dramatic effect.

Except Champions. They mastered the art of not fooling around. That is why they are OP (except maybe Diantha).

 

[NegaiFreak]

Haha! Not to mention if the plot calls for something to happen, then it will happen XD

Understatement of the year. But in short, I like that this is how Ash lost. Someone mentioned how Sawyer's Slurpuff lost because he got distracted looking through notes. Seeing that in the same sense here shows that Ash isn't exactly perfect either. He got distracted by believing that he had the advantage.

 

[knightwolf09]

Greninja doesn't want to put Ash at risk by fainting, so I could see that as a possibility. However, that begs the question: why do they do that in the next episode?

That's the thing. Ash and Greninja synch up when they both focus on getting stronger to overpower their opponent, and of course that's natural in a gym battle. Here I think that Ash was too reliant on the power itself rather than getting stronger which is why they're not on the same page.

 

[Master_Tyrell]

How is Ash-Greninja not happening unrealistic? Please, he came from a battle against Diantha where he pushed her to mega evolve (via cheap means, since you guys think attacking someone off focus is cheating) and also discovered an even further form of Ash-Greninja. You could see Ash was incredibly stoked and wanted to show that same form to Shota. This is where the whole problem comes, Ash pushed it too much, he failed to sync with Greninja because of his own fault. Of course he'll be surprised, not that long ago he managed to sync so well that he got that new form, but now it didn't even happen.... that's more than enough reason for Ash to feel shocked.

And no, Greninja was not holding back here. There's no indication whatsoever of that, if anything Greninja was surprise of the lack of transformation than thinking he wanted to not strain Ash.

Every argument used is clearly reaching just to justify the lost, and that's what I don't agree with.

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

You mean besides it being severely out of character for both them?
Shota wants to surpass Ash, not get a cheap sucker punch win and Ash wouldn't rely on such a form or be that distracted due to its failure.

How is noticing a clear opening a cheap Sucker Punch? It's a fight! You take any opportunity you can get, Ash put himself in that position and got punished.
It's fair game.

 

[1rkhachatryan]

I'm sorry but nothing about this battle screamed growth to me. Like I said, if Sawyer used Shelgon or Slurpuff and they did all the things Clawitzer did then I would be semi impressed but Sawyer only being strong with a new pokemon is what bugs me. And no I'm not including Sceptile in this because he was never weak.