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A Full-Strength Battle Surprise! (922)

Royal_Qeca

Pokémon Blue
Greninja beat Clawitzer with a OHKO with Cut, how strong actually is Greninja, damn man... .-.

It's not really an OHKO if it got damage from previous mons.
 

PAndrews

Well-Known Member
Ash wasnt looking away?? He was frozen for 5 seconds, and he choose to do that, this isnt a fainting situation where he didnt have a choice, he let himself falter and Shouta,the challenger, was perceptive enough to take advatange of the opening. Shouta won fairly and I will argue this to hell and back

Look at the fight
The sync fails and Ash freezes, Greninja is shown looking away to see what just happened and Sceptile then quickly hits it with Leaf Storm and then Leaf Blade while its airborne.
Shota won, but I wouldn't call exploiting a sync fail and a distracted opponent a "fair win" and am actually surprised Shota accepted it, since his goal was surpassing Ash, not get a cheap win off Ash.

As I said, I have no problem with Ash freezing, the problem is the adding of Greninja slowing down and looking away mid battle and Shota cheaply exploiting it, making it seem like that is the only way Sceptile could get his win (why bother adding something so crucial at such a vital battle moment). I'd have prefered it if Greninja remained focused on the battle and lost due to Shota outright being stronger or if Shota refused to accept this as a win and said they'd have a proper fight at a later date (would show nice character growth). This win for Shota feels about the same as Ash's pity badges or the Badges in which he used more Pokemon then his opponent.
 

Garbodor.

Well-Known Member
I keep seeing people thinking now that Ash lost this battle, it means he will defeat Shota at the league. Clearly they will face at least once more as we've seen small footage of Ash-Greninja vs mega Sceptile. So will he also lose the next battle too in order for him to defeat Shota at the league? I don't see Ash losing to this kid after mastering the Ash Greninja form, assuming he masters it before their next battle.
 

Soniman

Break the Limit
Look at the fight
The sync fails and Ash freezes, Greninja is shown looking away to see what just happened and Sceptile then quickly hits it with Leaf Storm and then Leaf Blade while its airborne.
Shota won, but I wouldn't call exploiting a sync fail and a distracted opponent a "fair win" and am actually surprised Shota accepted it, since his goal was surpassing Ash, not get a cheap win off Ash.
It's a battle, Shouta is not required to show sympathy for poor Ash because he coudlnt get his snowflake power up to jump start (why should Shouta allow that to happen anyway??), you either come into battle prepared or get wrecked.


As I said, I have no problem with Ash freezing, the problem is the adding of Greninja slowing down and looking away mid battle and Shota cheaply exploiting it, making it seem like that is the only way Sceptile could get his win (why bother adding something so crucial at such a vital battle moment).
Why does it feel like you're placing the blame on Shouta for Ash having a lapse in confidence? IT'S NOT HIS RESPONSIBILITY.


I'd have prefered it if Greninja remained focused on the battle and lost due to Shota outright being stronger or if Shota refused to accept this as a win and said they'd have a proper fight at a later date (would show nice character growth). This win for Shota feels about the same as Ash's pity badges or the Badges in which he used more Pokemon then his opponent.

LooooLLLLL. This is not the same as Ash using the sprinkler system and Brock's mercy as and advantage to seek a win man. We dont even know if Shouta was even AWARE of Ash being messed up, all he noticed was that Greninja lost it's focus and took advantage of it, he earned this win.
 
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Lunanight

Well-Known Member
It's not really an OHKO if it got damage from previous mons.

A Heal Pulse boosted by Mega Launcher heals 75% of the target's (Clawitzer's) full HP. Unless it had 25% or less HP remaining, which it really didn't look that way, Heal Pulse fully restored Clawitzer from whatever it was at to being fully healed. So it basically was an OHKO given how even thought Clawitzer took prior damage, it went back to full health, then got OHKO'd from full health down to zero.

Its even dumber than Paul's Drapion being able to basically OHKO Ash's Torterra given that Toterra took damage, healed it up with Synthesis, then Drapion did the OHKO. However at least when Drapion did its borderline OHKO, it used a super effective move and Torterra probably wasn't even at full health after Synthesis given how Synthesis healed less than a Mega Launcher-boosted Heal Pulse. It helps that Toxic Spikes may have influenced things even if Torterra recovered to full health.

Greninja being able to just OHKO Clawitzer like that seemed dumb, given how Clawitzer would be at full health after the 75% recovery. What was the point of Heal Pulse if Greninja was just going to OHKO the thing with Cut? Its not like Clawitzer took a super effective hit, nor did it battle Ash-Greninja but merely regular Greninja. I feel like Heal Pulse was merely so they could show off Mega Launcher/Heal Pulse, since I feel like it would have been better if Greninja just came in and picked off the weakened Clawitzer rather than an unrealistic OHKO the way it did.
 
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UltimateNinja

Praying for the holy relics
A shame to all people who seriously think Ash would always win against the important rival. And making it worse, some praise Greninja to be the Messias in every situation without an exception. Guy's this is the normal Greninja fighting against Sceptile, not Ash-Greninja. Greninja was only slightly more experienced than Sceptile the last time they battled. Ash was distracted after the Ash-Greninja wasn't activated. That was the chance for Scpetile to finally defeat Greninja by that moment. Ash focused to much on the transformation than battling with normal Greninja only. This is Ash fault of losing here, not because Shota suddenly got stronger than anything else. Noivern hasn't battled that much and Hawlucha also for a longer time. And Greninja also battled to much as Ash-Greninka against strong opponents.

That says more about XY being poorly written than anything. The fact that Ash isn't really being challenged is just bad writing. I don't understand why some people praise XY for making Ash this borderline Gary Stu who crushes everyone in battle without so much as being challenged, and when he loses, its either because he fainted or tried to use Synchronization and failed.

Probably because Ash is more experienced than all of his former selfes? You can see it in the Diantha battle last week why Ash is so praised, or do you find a champion to be no real challenge to Ash? And then there's still Alain who defeated Ash twice and the gym leaders. No main rival like Gary or Paul doesn't automatically mean that there's no challenge in XY. The same for AG.

WHO CARES THO, SM WILL BE HERE SOON LUL.

Pretty much the whole anime forum because it's still the running season unlike SM, where we have no information about?

Let's just hope that SM won't be a reset for Ash and the quality of the series like BW was.
 

1rkhachatryan

Call me Robert guys
Honestly, I think you are really bitter that Ash isn't winning every single battle that he's ever in. I don't know why you weren't expecting Sawyer to win given how the anime has been setting Ash up for a streak of losses. I don't know how Sawyer beating Ash wouldn't be progress to you.

Doublade was weak as you said. Sceptile isn't any stronger than one would expect, given how in their last battle, didn't Sceptile have the advantage until Ash-Greninja wrecked him? Its not like Sceptile beat Ash-Greninja, it beat regular Greninja.

Clawitzer wasn't DEM. What is with people on the forums and misusing the word DEM? Especially given that the thing was shown to know Dragon Pulse and Ice Beam. You know, two moves that are super effective against Noivern and Hawlucha respectively coming off of a thing with high power. I don't know why you are comparing Ash OHKO'ing Sawyer's Pokemon with regular attacks to Sawyer OHKO'ing Ash's Pokemon with super effective hits and acting like they are the same thing, those situations are completely different. How would Clawitzer OHKO'ing Pokemon using super effective hits that bad?

Apparently Sawyer isn't allowed to develop given that when he did develop, you seem mad, or rather any Pokemon he has which isn't named Sceptile should be remain weak. Why are you so butthurt that Sawyer beat Olympia and Wulfric? Apparently beating Olympia and Wulfric is a bad thing. I can understand Wulfric given how he probably didn't use Mega Abomasnow (or if he did, it took Sawyer's entire team to beat it like how Ash struggled against Mega Lucario) but complaining that he beat Olympia is just dumb.

If anything, Sawyer probably didn't battle Mega Abomasnow, or Mega Abomasnow was so powerful that it took 3 Pokemon to take it down. We know he lost to Valerie once and then beat her at a later point. So perhaps he lost to Wulfric a few times before he won, we don't know since the anime doesn't tell us how many times it takes rivals to win each of their badges. I still can't get why you are annoyed that Olympia lost given how, for all intents and purposes, she is no greater than any other gym leader. She doesn't have a Mega Pokemon so there is nothing wrong with beating her, and even if Olympia had one (which she doesn't) then it still wouldn't be bad given how Ash got to beat Mega Lucario.



You say that like OTK'ing a Pokemon with super effective hits is an impressive feat. Clawitzer OTK'd two of Ash's Pokemon with super effective moves, which makes it justifiable. Its not like it OTK'd Noivern and Clawitzer with regular attacks, unlike Greninja how OTK'd it with Cut. If Clawitzer couldn't OTK Hawlucha and Noivern with super effective moves coming off its raw power (in Dragon Pulse's case, it was boosted by Clawitzer's ability) then I would have considered it to be weak.

I don't see you complaining that power wise, Ash-Greninja was "OP as heck" the previous episode. Even if Diantha is the weakest champion both in the games and the anime, Ash-Greninja is objectively an OP mechanic, stronger than Mega Evolution, exclusive only to Ash (unless someone else uses that same Synchronization at the Kalos League, its exclusive to Ash because DEM). Ash-Greninja is the only OP thing we've seen in a while, the rest is just overrating and exaggeration. If Clawitzer is OP then that makes Ash-Greninja literally DEM.

I wasn't expecting Sawyer to not win, in fact I was expecting pretty much what we got. However I wanted Ash to faint again or something to interrupt this travesty. It isn't progress because Sawyer didn't show any progress with anything he already had. Doublade still got pwned and we already know Sceptile was strong and was gonna be his ace, nothing about that was shocking.

If Sawyer came in there with Slurpuff or Shelgon, and beat both Noivern and Hawlucha, then I would of said wow, you can see he clearly trained, not wow he caught a strong pokemon out of nowhere.

That's exactly why it was DEM. It was a fully evolved pokemon who had everything it needed to defeat Ash's pokemon without even knowing what pokemon he was gonna use. It is freaking bad because Sawyer OHKO'ing a pokemon of Ash's at all(other then Noivern since he's still now) is ridiculous. Hawlucha has taken so many hit before so for him to lose in under a minute like that is stupid to me. In what world does it make more sense for Noivern to last long then his mentor.

Because the writers are literally making it seem like Wulfric is toying with Ash next weak and not even putting in the effort or breaking a sweat beating him yet somehow Sawyer beat him?? If Ash who's been able to demolish Sawyer multiple times can't even dent Wulfric, then in what world does Sawyer stand a chance against him?? Especially since he didn't show anything today that should do well against Wulfric.

Also Greninja isn't OP because he has ALWAYS been shown to be strong and battle competent. It is not like the writers took Scraggy and made it that level strong and do well against a champion, now that would be BS and DEM. It's no different then Ash bringing back Sceptile or Charizard and them doing decent against Diantha after mega evolving.
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
Alright I more disliked this episode more than anything.

1. Noivern vs Doublade was more than okay, surprising dragon claw was a surprise, but that being said, I'm VERY disappointed in its moveset. I really hope supersonic gets replaces.

2. Clawitzer vs Noivern- That was okay not like we didn't know Noivern was going to lose

3. Hawlucha vs Clawiter- I'm calling B.S. for multiple reasons. At first I was upset, then I was like Oh maybe they're leading somewhere with this like a tie with Sceptile vs Greninja, then of course that outcome happened, and I'm even more upset with this battle. Way to screw Hawlucha over. I mean it looks bad enough that you're screwing Talonflame in the next gym battle, what is Hawlucha winning against Avalugg (presumably) to make up for its loss against Clawitzer. Would've preferred Pikachu here. The only upside is Hawlucha got to battle. But lost to a measly ice beam and you're expecting me to believe he's using Hawlucha against Wulfric over PIKACHU.

4. Greninja vs Clawitzer- I was salty because of Hawlucha, so I'm glad Greninja one shotted Clawitzer.

5. Sceptile vs Greninja- What absolute garbage this battle was, thank you writers for shoving Ash under the bus for presumably relying on the Ash Greninja that Ash was confused as to why Greninja wasn't transforming. I mean REALLY come on now. I know he wanted Ash Greninja, but that should NOT have been what happened, it should've ended in a tie. Also because of this loss, there's literally NO reason for Ash NOT to beat Sawyer in the league. Ash should've battled his hardest and still should've had a proper conclusion. Not one where Ash is like "WHY NO ASH-GRENINJA?" and Sawyer takes that opportunity to knock out Greninja.

Really writers? What the hell! Way to screw Ash's character over. Ash should NOT be relying on the Ash-Greninja form that Ash is confused/shocked as to why its not actually happening. Are you kidding me with this bull? I was expecting a pretty decent battle against Sawyer, but all you gave us was a pretty convenient loss against Sawyer.

And ON TOP OF THAT Ash-Greninja is seen battling Wulfric in the VERY NEXT EPISODE. Are you KIDDING ME? At least be consistent when you do or do not want Ash Greninja to happen that actually makes storyline/plot sense, and I will address this in the Gym Battle preview thread.

Did NOT enjoy this episode at all outside of Noivern vs Doublade, and Greninja one shotting Clawitzer for screwing Hawlucha over and to make matters worse, we see Greninja beating a Scizor in the beginning of the battle, and yet Greninja HAD to beat something of Sawyer's.

Ugh. Well, look how far the quality of battles dropped drastically after the Diantha episode.


Well this battle was a load of crap served up real good and really didn't how Sawyer's progress at all.

Doublade was still lame as hell and for all intensive purposes lost in one hit. Sceptile was Sceptile so that was believable but for Ash to not even land one hit on him was crap, I mean really.

Did you WATCH the battle, Doublade was hit with multiple acrobatics and a Dragon claw?
 

PAndrews

Well-Known Member
It's a battle, Shouta is not required to show sympathy for poor Ash because he coudlnt get his snowflake power up to jump start (why should Shouta allow that to happen anyway??), you either come into battle prepared or get wrecked.

So should Alain have done the same when Ash fainted? He saw something happened to Ash and instead of showing any kind of sympathy or worry for his friend he quickly attacked a foe who basically had its back turned.
For someone who's goal is surpassing Ash, going for such a cheap win seems pretty out of character.

Why does it feel like you're placing the blame on Shouta for Ash having a lapse in confidence? IT'S NOT HIS RESPONSIBILITY.

Never said I placed any blame, I said he intentionally went for a cheap win.
Greninja was pretty stupid for looking away mid-battle, it was completely unneccasary and the writers should have just given Shota a proper legit win and not one clearly dependent on Ash's brain getting switched off and Greninja looking away.

LooooLLLLL. This is not the same as Ash using the sprinkler system and Brock's mercy as and advantage to seek a win man. We dont even know if Shouta was even AWARE of Ash being messed up, all he noticed was that Greninja lost it's focus and took advantage of it, he earned this win.

You can not be serious, for all he knew Ash just had a seizure (he literally froze mid-command and stared blankly ahead) everyone was shocked and worried about him, Shota knew something was wrong and instead of showing any kind of concern he quickly intentionally attacked in what was pretty much the equivelant of a sucker punch. No matter which way you try to spin it, he got this win due to Ash screwing up and not due to his own skill and ability.
 

Soniman

Break the Limit
thank you writers for shoving Ash under the bus for presumably relying on the Ash Greninja that Ash was confused as to why Greninja wasn't transforming.
This only confirms what ive been saying of people are only salty because Ash lost and god forbid we have that for one episode

And ON TOP OF THAT Ash-Greninja is seen battling Wulfric in the VERY NEXT EPISODE. Are you KIDDING ME? At least be consistent when you do or do not want Ash Greninja to happen that actually makes storyline/plot sense, and
It's almost as if Ash has no control over Ash Greninja in terms of when it activates, almost like he hasnt mastered it yet, almost like that's the entire point of this character arc.

So should Alain have done the same when Ash fainted? He saw something happened to Ash and instead of showing any kind of sympathy or worry for his friend he quickly attacked a foe who basically had its back turned.
For someone who's goal is surpassing Ash, going for such a cheap win seems pretty out of character.
Ash had no control over fainting, he CHOOSE to lose his composure here. Fainting in the middle of battle is a LOT diffrent then spacing out because you were just confused about your power up not working. Why they hell would Alan want to take advantage of that? Ash physically could not battle anymore, he already won. The situations arent even comparable.

Never said I placed any blame, I said he intentionally went for a cheap win.
Greninja was pretty stupid for looking away mid-battle, it was completely unneccasary and the writers should have just given Shota a proper legit win and not one clearly dependent on Ash's brain getting switched off and Greninja looking away.
Again, should the opponent be operating at 100% peak for Shouta to get a legit win? It doesnt count unless they're perfect and capable AND STILL lose?

You can not be serious, for all he knew Ash just had a seizure (he literally froze mid-command and stared blankly ahead) everyone was shocked and worried about him, Shota knew something was wrong and instead of showing any kind of concern he quickly intentionally attacked in what was pretty much the equivelant of a sucker punch. No matter which way you try to spin it, he got this win due to Ash screwing up and not due to his own skill and ability.
Are all trainers now required to stop in their tracks because their opponent makes a sad face and they should worry if they're feeling alright? You're really overexaggerating Ash's situation, he was visibly worried and became unfocused for a few seconds but it's not like he was freaking crippled and Shouta did the equivalent of stealing his crutches

Again I wouldnt be so anal about this if I didnt know people wouldnt be on Ash's *** if he did the same thing.
 
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Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
LOLOL Ash lost. So much for Sawyer winning at the League.

That's the only reason I'm okay with Ash losing to the noob. Shuts that theory down the drain.
 

diakyu

Well-Known Member
"Ash didn't lose properly" what the heck am I reading.

Ash messed up. Full stop. He didn't become incapacitated like when he fought Alain. Sawyer saw the weakness and capitalized on it. A battle consists of the trainer just as much it does the Pokemon. if one part messes up there's goes the battle. Sceptile has always been shown to be close to Greninja. Heck, if not for Ash-Greninja it's very likely Sceptile would have won last time (but of course people forget this). Some of you guys need to realize just because Ash had a fairly good fight against Diantha it doesn't mean he should be dropping fools left and right, and this goes moreso for Sawyer because he has fought Ash on multiple occasions AND LITERALLY HAS A BOOK ON HIS STRATEGIES. Add in the fact that Ash was nervous before he tried to activate Ash-Greninja and you have a pretty good explanation for why Ash lost.

Then you have Clauncher capitalizing on SE moves at close range with MEGA LAUNCHER (something Sawyer was clearly trying to capitalize on). Sawyer ain't the fool many people think he is. He's very good at countering Ash now that he has fought him a few times (notice Noivern only won because Sawyer had never fought it before and had no way of anticipating Noivern's echolocation, which Sawyer noted in his book).

Can't wait for the episode before the league where Mega Sceptile and Ash-greninja fight to a tie and people go "SAWYER IS CHAMPION LEVEL????? WRITERS WHY".
 
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dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
This only confirms what ive been saying of people are only salty because Ash lost and god forbid we have that for one episode
I would've been fine with Ash losing to Sawyer, if he lost legitimately not conveniently because Ash was shocked that Greninja wasn't becoming Ash Greninja. If Ash didn't care that Greninja wasn't becoming Ash Greninja and still fought and ended up losing, I WOULD'VE liked this episode a LOT more.

No, instead Ash loses focus, and basically let's Greninja loses. Just like how Slurpuff lost to Hawlucha in their first battle because Sawyer was writing notes, Ash didn't deserve something similar to have happen to him relying SOLELY on Ash-Greninja form, despite that Greninja beat Sciscor and Clawitzer in its base form.

It's almost as if Ash has no control over Ash Greninja in terms of when it activates, almost like he hasnt mastered it yet, almost like that's the entire point of this character arc.

Read what I said in the Wulfric Gym Battle thread, and you'll see why I said this.

"Ash didn't lose properly" what the heck am I reading.

Ash messed up. Full stop. He didn't become incapacitated like when he fought Alain. Sawyer saw the weakness and capitalized on it. A battle consists of the trainer just as much it does the Pokemon. if one part messes up there's goes the battle. Sceptile has always been shown to be close to Greninja. Heck, if not for Ash-Greninja it's very likely Sceptile would have won last time (but of course people forget this). Some of you guys need to realize just because Ash had a fairly good fight against Diantha it doesn't mean he should be dropping fools left and right, and this goes moreso for Sawyer because he has fought Ash on multiple occasions AND LITERALLY HAS A BOOK ON HIS STRATEGIES. Add in the fact that Ash was nervous before he tried to activate Ash-Greninja and you have a pretty good explanation for why Ash lost.
Convenient losses are not legitimate. Since when has Ash ever relied on a magical power boost, and is shocked when the power boost doesn't work.

If Ash continued to battle normally and THEN lost THAT would've been a legitimate lost. Not "Why isn't Greninja transforming. * CONFUSED FACE * That's not like Ash to do that to be completely imbolized from Shock of something "NOT HAPPENING" Seriously Ash made NO attempt to stop Greninja from being hit with Leaf Storm, he only snapped back into the battle when that happened. Be shocked for a second or two. DON'T JUST STARE INTO SPACE AND DO NOTHING UNTIL YOUR POKEMON IS HIT.
 
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PAndrews

Well-Known Member
It's almost as if Ash has no control over Ash Greninja in terms of when it activates, almost like he hasnt mastered it yet, almost like that's the entire point of this character arc.

Seems to be Greninja who refused to use the form here, If you compare the patterns on Clemont's screen in both this battle and the Diantha battle, you'll see Ash's are the same, yet in this one Greninja's line remains close to a straight line. Guess this symbolizes the intro in which it seems that Greninja lost faith in Ash, though him using it again fine in the very next episode is just plain bad, unless this means that (subconsciously) Greninja deemed Shota not a big enough threat to use the form. But it seems the episode after the gym battle focusses on their bond, so maybe that episode will address what happened here.

Though its weird that the time the form flatout fails is the moment Ash gives Clemont his scanning equipment back :S
 

Soniman

Break the Limit
"Ash didn't lose properly" what the heck am I reading.

Ash messed up. Full stop. He didn't become incapacitated like when he fought Alain. Sawyer saw the weakness and capitalized on it. A battle consists of the trainer just as much it does the Pokemon. if one part messes up there's goes the battle. Sceptile has always been shown to be close to Greninja. Heck, if not for Ash-Greninja it's very likely Sceptile would have won last time (but of course people forget this). Some of you guys need to realize just because Ash had a fairly good fight against Diantha it doesn't mean he should be dropping fools left and right, and this goes moreso for Sawyer because he has fought Ash on multiple occasions AND LITERALLY HAS A BOOK ON HIS STRATEGIES. Add in the fact that Ash was nervous before he tried to activate Ash-Greninja and you have a pretty good explanation for why Ash lost.

Then you have Clauncher capitalizing on SE moves at close range with MEGA LAUNCHER (something Sawyer was clearly trying to capitalize on). Sawyer ain't the fool many people think he is. He's very good at countering Ash now that he has fought him a few times (notice Noivern only won because Sawyer had never fought it before).

Thank you man, this is exactly what ive been trying to say

Seems to be Greninja who refused to use the form here, If you compare the patterns on Clemont's screen in both this battle and the Diantha battle, you'll see Ash's are the same, yet in this one Greninja's line remains close to a straight line. Guess this symbolizes the intro in which it seems that Greninja lost faith in Ash, though him using it again fine in the very next episode is just plain bad, unless this means that (subconsciously) Greninja deemed Shota not a big enough threat to use the form. But it seems the episode after the gym battle focusses on their bond, so maybe that episode will address what happened here.]
This is completle conjecture and is given no evidence in the episode, it's easier to just assume Greninja and Ash werent in synch in this instance and thats it.

Though its weird that the time the form flatout fails is the moment Ash gives Clemont his scanning equipment back :S
I assume that's what he always does after every Ash Greninja session???
 

Rohanator

Well-Known Member
I didn't expect THIS much salt over this fight, daium. It's also mad hypocritical to be so upset about Hawlucha falling to an Ice Beam but defend Doublade falling to not very effect physical attacks (multiple or not). The point of both victories was to show how the trainers used STRATEGY, Ash with Noivern's Supersonic in the dust cloud and Shota with the Dragon Pulse maneuvers and saving the most effective move for the right moment.

Sceptile did NOT beat Greninja only because "Greninja was looking away", they made the point to show Sceptile's speed with how quickly it cut down the shadow clones, how it landed a Leaf Storm on Greninja and dodged multiple of its moves BEFORE we saw Ash hesitate. His moment of weakness might've helped Shota land the final blows but he was by no means struggling before that.

And even if it did allow him to win, it just goes with what ASH HIMSELF TAUGHT HIM. Remember when Ash KO'd his Slurpuff while Shota was looking at his notebook? The trainer and Pokemon are one, if the trainer gets distraught the Pokemon will too. It was a legit loss.
 
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PAndrews

Well-Known Member
"Ash didn't lose properly" what the heck am I reading.

Ash messed up. Full stop. He didn't become incapacitated like when he fought Alain. Sawyer saw the weakness and capitalized on it. A battle consists of the trainer just as much it does the Pokemon. if one part messes up there's goes the battle. Sceptile has always been shown to be close to Greninja. Heck, if not for Ash-Greninja it's very likely Sceptile would have won last time (but of course people forget this). Some of you guys need to realize just because Ash had a fairly good fight against Diantha it doesn't mean he should be dropping fools left and right, and this goes moreso for Sawyer because he has fought Ash on multiple occasions AND LITERALLY HAS A BOOK ON HIS STRATEGIES. Add in the fact that Ash was nervous before he tried to activate Ash-Greninja and you have a pretty good explanation for why Ash lost.

Then you have Clauncher capitalizing on SE moves at close range with MEGA LAUNCHER (something Sawyer was clearly trying to capitalize on). Sawyer ain't the fool many people think he is. He's very good at countering Ash now that he has fought him a few times (notice Noivern only won because Sawyer had never fought it before).

And yet despite all that he still needed to attack a distracted Greninja looking away at a frozen Ash due to his sync mode failing to activate

Sceptile did NOT beat Greninja only because "Greninja was looking away", they made the point to show Sceptile's speed with how quickly it cut down the shadow clones, how it landed a Leaf Storm on Greninja and dodged multiple of its moves BEFORE we saw Ash hesitate. His moment of weakness might've helped Shota land the final blows but he was by no means struggling before that.

You seem to be neglecting a key part there. Greninja tried its speedblitz and got countered, then tried again and UPPED THE SPEED, followed by a worried Sceptile who clearly couldn't keep up anymore. Ash flatout gained the upperhand right there, then froze due to his synch not working and Greninja looked away from the battle, to which Shota saw and quickly attacked. He might have still gotten the win had the fight continued, but the undiniable fact is he got the win due to Greninja being distracted and not due to speed, power or strategy (which was just bad writing). He didn't even get an accidental win due to the distraction, he intentionally used it.
 
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1rkhachatryan

Call me Robert guys
Alright I more disliked this episode more than anything.

1. Noivern vs Doublade was more than okay, surprising dragon claw was a surprise, but that being said, I'm VERY disappointed in its moveset. I really hope supersonic gets replaces.

2. Clawitzer vs Noivern- That was okay not like we didn't know Noivern was going to lose

3. Hawlucha vs Clawiter- I'm calling B.S. for multiple reasons. At first I was upset, then I was like Oh maybe they're leading somewhere with this like a tie with Sceptile vs Greninja, then of course that outcome happened, and I'm even more upset with this battle. Way to screw Hawlucha over. I mean it looks bad enough that you're screwing Talonflame in the next gym battle, what is Hawlucha winning against Avalugg (presumably) to make up for its loss against Clawitzer. Would've preferred Pikachu here. The only upside is Hawlucha got to battle. But lost to a measly ice beam and you're expecting me to believe he's using Hawlucha against Wulfric over PIKACHU.

4. Greninja vs Clawitzer- I was salty because of Hawlucha, so I'm glad Greninja one shotted Clawitzer.

5. Sceptile vs Greninja- What absolute garbage this battle was, thank you writers for shoving Ash under the bus for presumably relying on the Ash Greninja that Ash was confused as to why Greninja wasn't transforming. I mean REALLY come on now. I know he wanted Ash Greninja, but that should NOT have been what happened, it should've ended in a tie. Also because of this loss, there's literally NO reason for Ash NOT to beat Sawyer in the league. Ash should've battled his hardest and still should've had a proper conclusion. Not one where Ash is like "WHY NO ASH-GRENINJA?" and Sawyer takes that opportunity to knock out Greninja.

Really writers? What the hell! Way to screw Ash's character over. Ash should NOT be relying on the Ash-Greninja form that Ash is confused/shocked as to why its not actually happening. Are you kidding me with this bull? I was expecting a pretty decent battle against Sawyer, but all you gave us was a pretty convenient loss against Sawyer.

And ON TOP OF THAT Ash-Greninja is seen battling Wulfric in the VERY NEXT EPISODE. Are you KIDDING ME? At least be consistent when you do or do not want Ash Greninja to happen that actually makes storyline/plot sense, and I will address this in the Gym Battle preview thread.

Did NOT enjoy this episode at all outside of Noivern vs Doublade, and Greninja one shotting Clawitzer for screwing Hawlucha over and to make matters worse, we see Greninja beating a Scizor in the beginning of the battle, and yet Greninja HAD to beat something of Sawyer's.

Ugh. Well, look how far the quality of battles dropped drastically after the Diantha episode.




Did you WATCH the battle, Doublade was hit with multiple acrobatics and a Dragon claw?

Fine two hits, but clearly Iron Defense hits are gonna do little to no damage overall.
 
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