A hypothetical Gen 6 PMD game

[Sunset Star]

I recall reading somewhere that GTI had the amazing selection of 144 Pokémon. Wow. If they're not going to include every Pokémon, they should at least choose good ones: Conquest never felt GTI-empty despite only having ~200 Pokémon due to there being diversity and all generations well-represented.

 

[TheCharredDragon]

Actually, the main reason there should be more Pokemon in the next PMD is not "Gotta recruit 'em all", it's so that there is variety between dungeons. I've just started another playthrough of GTI and I'm seriously bored at how every dungeon seems to have Cottonee, Petilil, Vullaby and the like. And, as someone already pointed out, they don't even fit the dungeon you find them in. What are Tympole doing in Canyons and Caves? Gothita in mountains?

Another thing that slightly bugged me was how you could find story-related Pokemon even in the early dungeons. In the previous games, you couldn't find any species which already had a Pokemon of its kind in the story, or who were townsmons. In GTI I've just become a proper team and I already have Pokemon whose species already exist in town on my team. I guess there were fewer Pokemon so they couldn't afford to save any for the postgame, but that's the point.

We need more Pokemon to increase the immersion factor, not because we want to complete the list.

Yeah, although recruiting them all can be something one can do if they really want to acheive everything. The other thing that was nice about variety is that, like I said, you can pretend the Pokémon you're using or recuited are your characters.

I recall reading somewhere that GTI had the amazing selection of 144 Pokémon. Wow. If they're not going to include every Pokémon, they should at least choose good ones: Conquest never felt GTI-empty despite only having ~200 Pokémon due to there being diversity and all generations well-represented.

I haven't played much of Conquest, but I think I've played enough to agree on that.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

I recall reading somewhere that GTI had the amazing selection of 144 Pokémon. Wow. If they're not going to include every Pokémon, they should at least choose good ones: Conquest never felt GTI-empty despite only having ~200 Pokémon due to there being diversity and all generations well-represented.

>144
>Amazing

LOL no. It takes at least 200-250 for good selection, "amazing" would be more like 400+.

 

[R_N]

>144
>Amazing

LOL no. It takes at least 200-250 for good selection, "amazing" would be more like 400+.

I am pretty sure sunset star is using "amazing" sarcastically as shown by the last half of the quote

 

[Kartik]

You know, I could be wrong, but if you ask me, GTI felt kinda uninspired, I mean, it felt like the developers started enthusiastically but lost interest half-way.

1. There is only one game. While not a big thing, but having two versions for the spin-offs too was kinda nice. Also, we never got a "third", better version with Special Episodes and the kind. And I'm pretty sure we aren't getting it now either. GTI ended with one game.

2. Of course, the lack of Pokemon. I know doing all those 3D graphics is time consuming, but they could have at least given us 300 so that there was some variety. The world of GTI feels so small. Even while doing job requests, it feels like I'm helping the same Haxorus get out of Desolate Canyon 5th Floor for the 100th time.

3. There are just 5 starters. I know, I know, all your starters have special sequences where they use different animations like when they pump their fist, or get in a fighting stance before a boss fight, or go to sleep, or scream while falling off the skies, but the previous games had most of that too, but they still had at least 10 starters. The decision of only 5 starters felt less like "You guys should appreciate these dudes too" and more "There's no way in hell we're doing all these special animations for 15 critters" to me.

4. All the starting dungeons, you'll see, have cool field obstacles you must clear by reaching a certain floor and pushing logs off of it, or jumping on buttons to raise up stumps to jump to the next floor from. But as the game progresses, these start to disappear, like they were just there to mesmerize you during the first few levels so that you start playing. As the story progresses, you'll see that eventually these field obstacles are completely gone and it's normal dungeon crawling again. The obstacles were a very novel idea, but seemed to be ditched half way through.

5. There is almost no postgame. The only thing you've got it is that one time where you delve into the final story dungeon and bring your starter back to the Pokemon world. And... that's it. Game over. That's when the world starts to feel really lonely. Now you don't even have the story to accompany you. EoT/D/S did this so well, I expected an awesome postgame arc form this game too. But I was disappointed.

Now, I know I could get beat up real bad for saying this, but I'll risk it anyway - The game seems to be lazily done. It seems like it was done in a haste, actually. Like they thought we'd just buy it because of the glory of its predecessors. Its only strong points are the gripping story and awesome music. While this alone is a lot, you can't help but be disappointed because the predecessors had these two and other stuff to content you with. It would be a good game but the minute you compare it to the previous two, it sucks.

 

[Kyrix]

2. Of course, the lack of Pokemon. I know doing all those 3D graphics is time consuming, but they could have at least given us 300 so that there was some variety. The world of GTI feels so small. Even while doing job requests, it feels like I'm helping the same Haxorus get out of Desolate Canyon 5th Floor for the 100th time.

Here's the irksome thing about this:

You gotta keep in mind the time frame this game came out: March 24, 2013. Hmm, what else came out recently for the 3DS? Why...the Pokedex 3D Pro during November 2012!

GTI uses the same models as the Pokedex, which is why it always INFINITELY irked me that they didn't have all the pokemon. It's not like it required more work from them - if anything, it required LESS work than previous PMD games because, unlike those games, they already had these models in development/developed by the time this game was in the works, whereas they had to create the asymmetric, 8-facing sprites for Every. Single. Pokemon. in Red/Blue/Time/Darkness/Sky.


The limited pokemon is just so...strange. It makes little sense from a series stand-point; Pokemon, as a whole, is about catching them ALL, but more specifically, the PMD games were all about giving us colorful, cohesive worlds built around that single idea "what if there were only pokemon?" and it simply doesn't work with so few pokemon to build that world. In fact, to make matters EVEN STRANGER: Fine, if the game had every gen 5 pokemon only, then a couple fan favorites, I could understand. It would still be weird, but whatever. It's a gen 5 game. Gen 5 game, gen 5 mons. A bit cut-n-dry, but whatever. But it doesn't have every gen 5 pokemon! It has 144 pokemon, 31 of which are from gens 1-4, leaving 113 pokemon from gen 5. But there are 156 gen 5 pokemon, meaning 43 were left out! They couldn't even add the entire generation!


I just don't understand it. I would love to know what was going on behind the scenes. But I will say it definitely seems rushed, mostly due to things like obvious menu and options being curiously absent from the game, such as text speed settings. Seriously, this is the first game in like...20 years that I've played that didn't have text speed options.

 

[Kartik]

Oh, I didn't know that. You know, this really makes me wonder why they did this then... it's almost like they were deliberately trying to make this game suck...

A real shame. I always prefer PMD even to the main series. These are the only games(in the Pokemon franchise) which have any real feels, gripping story and actual character development. Personally I found most main series games disappointing, other than Black/White, because I'm big on the story in video games.

Best case scenario - This game was just some sort of reminder, a "Hey, we're still around!". Maybe this was, like, a filler game while they are working on PMD 4, which would be the real ****.

I read somewhere that Rockstar did exactly this with GTA IV. It was just sort of a stall while they were developing GTA V. I know, Rockstar and Spike Chunsoft are poles apart, but it is a possible explanation.

Worst case scenario - They've just lost enthusiasm, and interest in PMD. They really just wanted to end the series or something... Although this doesn't really make sense. The PMD games have been doing good, they won't do this unless they really hate money. Besides, when you end a game series, you don't go out with a whistle, you go out with a BANG!

I just wish PMD 4 comes out soon, and it outshines EoT/D/S. You know, once Pokemon Z/X2/Y2 is released, all Gen VI Pokemon would have been released. The Generation would be officially over. GTI waited till Gen V finished, maybe PMD 4 is, too.

 

[shreyasthegreat]

i would give my right arm to see PMD4 come out, because frankly i've loved every PMD game so far. Red Rescue Team was a part of my childhood as much as the main series games were, and EoT was amazing, not to mention that it became even better in EoS. The character development and the heavy dose of emotion (Grovyle, I still cry when I think about you </3) really made the games gripping and engrossing. The one thing about GTI that bugged me was the exclusion of most non-Unova pokemon except like Pikachu and Dunsparce and a handful of others, especially considering that its predecessor had such a vast variety of pokemon. However, the storyline towards the end was really good and I am not ashamed to admit that I cried wept like a child at the end. The one thing I'd really love to see in PMD4 is how they incorporate Mega evolution. Maybe one Mega per dungeon? Or one Mega-evolution every five or ten floors? Maybe only in specific dugeons? Who knows?

 

[Kartik]

Well, we had something slightly similar to Mega Evolution in EoS, through Shaymin's Sky Forme, which boosted its stats and let it travel at double speed. Although it lasted for the entirety of the dungeon. Now, it was all right for that time, Sky Forme Shaymin isn't really so strong, and it's only recruit-able postgame, but Mega Evolutions provide big stat improvements, so if they lasted throughout the dungeon, they'd be game breakers.

Obviously, the two player characters would never be able to use it though, considering the evolution ban lasting throughout the game. But recruits might use it. I'm pretty sure there will be boss battles against Mega Evolved Pokemon too...

There's also the thing about humans being necessary for a Pokemon to Mega Evolve. Does that mean only the player's party would be able to use Mega Evolution?

Personally, I really hope there are other secret human-turned-Pokemon in the next game, some on your side, some against, similar to Gengar in the original Red &Blue Rescue Teams.

And Mega Evolution throughout the story would be cool too. Imagine an ally gets beaten up brutally in a cutscene and then you power it up to let it Mega Evolve.

Personally, I think Gen VI has some pretty cool new mechanics and Pokemon lore that would be excellent for a PMD game.

 

[Sunset Star]

I personally wouldn't really like Mega Evolution to be included in the next game, purely because it might be a little awkward to implement, and Our Friendly Starters would probably be limited to Pokémon with Megavos, so no Gen 6 starters for us.

@shreyasthegreat: You'd give up your right arm? Was that intentional?

 

[Zalbar]

The hunger mechanic returned to all maps.

Bring back IQ skills, or create some form of skill tree that each of your pokemon can slowly unlock every 4 or 5 levels to get the old IQ based passive skills. Base the trees off the type(s). Example: At level 15 your Rock type Pokemon might get to choose between Aggressor OR Defender. Meanwhile your Grass Pokemon at level 15 could be faced with choosing between Wise Healer or Wary Fighter. In the case of dual types, simply take one option from each type and now the player with a level 15 Lileep on their team (Grass/Rock) is choosing between Wise Healer or Defender.

Agreeing (of course) that a return to a larger roster should be implemented.
Not even all of the Pokemon need to be in it, but at least toss in all the fairy types since there are so few in comparison to the others currently, and give us a large enough representation of all the types that we can REALLY come up with our own unique team combos again.

Move growth is cool and all, but if the trade off is between that and skill link, I hope skill link makes a comeback.
I just found it far more useful.

Keeping things well rounded in type availability.
This is a minor gripe of mine, but one I've had with every single PMD game to date.
Certain types (and it seems to vary slightly by which installment you're playing) just aren't available until late game or post game. Why not open up the playing field slightly with the next installment so that at least by the 5th or 6th dungeon there is at least 1 recruitable representative from all the 18 types? Even if it's something that most players will upgrade past later in the game as they gain access to better species from that type?

Zoom the camera back out to the distance it was at in previous installments, I can't even tell if something is behind the 4th party member in hallways in GtI, which often leads to them fighting something at an intersection I've passed up and me needing to back track so they won't go wandering off alone after the battle.

Not really sure why I want this one, buuuuut... Make it 2d sprites again.
The polygons look alright, but the 2d sprites just seemed to have a certain charm to them for me that I'm not quite getting with the 3d look. Probably just nostalgia or whatever, but I preferred the visual art style of the 2d mystery dungeon games to the new 3d art style. Plus some of the dungeons "clutter" is visually distracting or misleading now.
I find myself trying to walk into walls a lot in some dungeons now with GtI because it looks (to me) like a continuation of or fork in the path because the background and foreground tiles sets don't have enough differation or depth between them. Never really had that issue with the older games.

Also, I would love it if they added back in a larger roster of starters.
Maybe a dozen-isn't. Like the current Gen 6 starting trio, Pika, Riolu, and a smattering of other random Mon.

Infinite Story Mode!
After the main game completes, set it up so that a randomly generated mini story arc shows up every 10-12 filler days. They should last from 3 to 5 dungeons in length, all with varying floor levels. Set them up in dungeons that aren't accessible normally, kind of like Magnagates are now in GtI. Recruiting should be disabled when entering the dungeons related to these mini-stories, and the end bosses should be Mega-Evo baddies that are actually the leaders of such and such evil team, or are planning to do ____ that will cause ____ natural disaster. Just totally random (this game knows AddLibs!) setups that would come with 3 or 4 treasure chests at the end of the arc to reward the player for bringing down the latest threat. It would be even cooler if the ShopMon and TownMon commented on how ____ baddie was causing such a stir lately as you played through all the mini-arcs.

Oh, and finally, I hope with the next iteration, they break the mold a little bit and actually give the player control of the partner and team mates when their turn to attack comes around. Hoping your Charmander buddy uses Ember on that Jumpluff over there and having it try to dig against the Pidgeotto next to it (and other random situations like that) is kind of annoying. lol
All that being said, I am actually having a lot of fun with GtI. It really is a great game so far, but having played Blue Rescue and EoD already, I can see to some extent why a lot of people seem to dislike Gates. I'm loving it personally, but I do have to agree that it doesn't quite live up to the standards already set with the first 2 generations of the series.

/end wall o' text

 

[Rainbowdashtheawesome]

The reason why I didn't get GTI was because it only went up to gen 5 but was released after they announced that there was a gen 6 coming, so if they had released it a few months earlier I would have gotten it. If they make a gen 6 MD game, they should probably do so before confirming the production of gen 7.

As for what happens, I'd llike it if they just make it like the original games in terms of format (in other words, with friend areas and a house modeled after your character), just with a different plot. I can think of a nice Mystery Dungeon style plot for the story arc:
In the initial story arc, the final boss is Yveltal. When the good guys learn Yveltal is coming, they go to a dungeon to awaken Xerneas. Xerneas is awakened, but ends up losing to Yveltal, so your characters need to go and take it down before it's too late.
After the main story arc, the next big crisis is that the imbalance of Life and Destruction that happened as a result of the clash has awakened and angered Zygarde, whose rage is (possibly unintentionally) causing tremors that threaten to destroy much of the region, so you have to go and battle Zygarde to calm it down.

 

[tommytoe]

Best case scenario - This game was just some sort of reminder, a "Hey, we're still around!". Maybe this was, like, a filler game while they are working on PMD 4, which would be the real ****.

I read somewhere that Rockstar did exactly this with GTA IV. It was just sort of a stall while they were developing GTA V. I know, Rockstar and Spike Chunsoft are poles apart, but it is a possible explanation.

Worst case scenario - They've just lost enthusiasm, and interest in PMD. They really just wanted to end the series or something... Although this doesn't really make sense. The PMD games have been doing good, they won't do this unless they really hate money. Besides, when you end a game series, you don't go out with a whistle, you go out with a BANG!

I really hope Chunsoft is going for option 1 since the PMD series is easily my favorite in the Pokemon franchise but #2 seems more likely. The PMD games aren't exactly huge sellers even in Japan and dungeon crawlers are fairly niche in the US. Explorers of TIme and Darkness for instance sold about 4 million copies worldwide while Diamond and Pearl sold about five million is a couple of months, and that was just in Japan.

I haven't actually played GTI but from what I've heard it sounds like a stripped down game that no one put 100% into which might well mean it's supposed to the last gasp of a dying franchise. I really hope I'm wrong but I doubt we'll be seeing any PMD games in the near future, if ever.

 

[Rakurai]

The fundamentals of GtI (The music, story, and gameplay) were still enjoyable, and it actually did quite a few things better then the past games did. It's really mostly the lack of side content that held it back.

What I'm more scared about now is the fact that two Pokemon spin-offs have gone the way of cheap freemium titles. If that happens to PMD, then I'd consider it dead.

 

[Lorde]

I haven't played the PMD games in years, but I'd like to play future Gen 6 PMD games if they're released for the 3DS. I don't have a big wishlist of new features that I'd want to see included; I just want good graphics obviously, and a long storyline reminiscent of Explorers of Time/Darkness would be nice.

 

[Spacial]

I think if there were to be new games, I'd much prefer pretty much everything to be done more like PMDEOD/T/S and Blue/Red Rescue Team rather than like PMDGTI, which was downright horrific. What I'd like the most is actually an engaging story like PMDEOD/T/S has (I actually cried at the bit after you defeat Dialga, I sh*t you not) which balances the story with regular gameplay. This balance was one of the things that PMDGTI got horribly wrong. Basically a stronger story with better antagonists, generally longer and also unpredictable.

Also: graphics. For me, gen 6 graphics look terrible. The roundness is ridiculous and it's all too smooth. I'd love to see some great blocky graphics akin to those from the original PMD games, but revamped.

It would be quite cool for a new style of battling to be introduced which would replace the press-a-button-and-attack-in-turns style that PMD has had - perhaps a move is assigned to each button (A,Y,R,L?) and pressing that button causes you to use that move, but the difference is that the battling style is more like in the anime instead of a turn-based formula. Could add something new, idk.

A jukebox feature like in PMDEOS would be nice, and I feel a personality test is NECESSARY. The choice in PMDGTI was ridiculous. I'd like to see more possible protagonists like in the older games - all of the starters with a mix of Pikachu and Eevee and Skitty and whatnot.

 

[tommytoe]

It would be quite cool for a new style of battling to be introduced which would replace the press-a-button-and-attack-in-turns style that PMD has had - perhaps a move is assigned to each button (A,Y,R,L?) and pressing that button causes you to use that move, but the difference is that the battling style is more like in the anime instead of a turn-based formula. Could add something new, idk.

I'm not sure how well Pokemon's battle system would translate to real time combat. Even if things like power points, abilities, and attack's accuracy ratings were removed, the type advantages, disadvantages, and immunities would still be a lot to keep track of in real time, especially if the player had to manage multiple Pokemon at once. It might work but I'd prefer Chunsoft stick with the current PMD formula and just put more effort into the next game.

 

[Rakurai]

I'll never understand the complaints about GtI's graphics.

That was one of the things about it that drew me in the most, honestly.

 

[Kyrix]

I'll never understand the complaints about GtI's graphics.

That was one of the things about it that drew me in the most, honestly.

The problem with GtI's graphics, and this is putting it as kindly as I can, is that the game looks like an early PS2 game. Low-quality, non-emotive polygonal characters with no distinctive art style coupled with higher quality 2.5D surroundings (mixture of 3D and 2D graphics depending on where corners could be cut). The game looked DATED as hell the moment it was released; those character models are roooouuugggghhhhhhhhh. And with the release of XY less than a year later (11 months for Japan, 7 months for US, and 5 months for Europe), GtI looks even worse by comparison: XY's Pokemon have a clean, stylistic design with the cel-shading technique; heck, it's what has made Wind Waker, graphically, such a timeless classic.

Now sure, this is where you could argue that the original PMD games are outdated, and that's a fair point. I mean, the Rescue Team series were designed with the GBA in mind, and the Explorers series simply reused those art assets, but as with any transition from 2D to 3D, a good looking 2D sprite will always long outlast a bad looking 3D model - the N64 and PS1 are proof of concept on this one - and the two original series, while old and definitely in need of a tune up, is at least still acceptable today.


I will say one area that GtI definitely beats the old games, graphically, is the dungeon aethetics. But even this comes with its own downsides. Because of the unique appearances and special floor layouts in GtI, like the long passageway to a dead-end, lined with trees or ores or what-have-you, the dungeon designs became very...predictable, in GtI. If you saw certain features on the map, you could bet money what the floor layout would look like. There were too few special rooms, that appeared too frequently, in order to showcase the improved dungeon graphics that it actively inhibited the core gameplay feature of exploring dungeons. It was less of a completely randomly generated dungeon, and more of a room built of 6-8 randomly selected puzzle pieces slotted together with only 20 pieces total to choose from.


Praise the music, praise the improved character development your team got over the last games, but definitely don't give GtI a free pass just because it happens to be in 3D.

 

[Rakurai]

I'm aware that it hardly has the best 3D graphics around, but it still was a heck of lot more appealing to me then the spritework in previous titles.

I kind of doubt they'll ever go back to 2D at this point, especially when considering that it's easier to animate an existing 3D model then it is to draw up a multitude of high quality sprites.