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A Meeting of Two Journeys (909)

Master_Tyrell

Well-Known Member
What's there exactly to claim Greninja hasn't mastered Ash Greninja form? The exhaustion Ash feels?

It was never about the shared pain. We are shown Ash-Greninja can use the water shroud to make that giant Shuriken on his back and also make a water sword of some sort. He has not used the shroud in anyway so that's why I believe he hasn't mastered it yet.
 

BJack

Zura
What's there exactly to claim Greninja hasn't mastered Ash Greninja form? The exhaustion Ash feels? What is Ash gonna do? Go to the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and have him and Greninja stay in the form forever to build up stamina? There's really nothing they can do for, at this moment in time, anime exclusive form that makes any sense. You don't magically just forget how to forget pain and you certainly can't ditch that strong of flaw after a couple sparring matches, training, etc... And to that point, with how many times Ash has taken Pikachu's head on attacks, you'd figure they'd give Ash Greninja a completely different and critical flaw instead of the owner suffering from what Greninja suffers from.

The lack of the giant shuriken on its back
 

Joltik-Kid

Careful? Where's the fun in that?
I excluded Best Wishes because, let's face, it didn't handle the rivals in the best possible way.
I can respect that... but the writing hasn't exactly improved so drastically from a season/saga/series ago that I have the utmost faith that they'd do the right thing. If it's not Sawyer who's beating Ash, then it's CoTD who's showcased right before the league with the team that heavily counters Ash's.

It was never about the shared pain. We are shown Ash-Greninja can use the water shroud to make that giant Shuriken on his back and also make a water sword of some sort. He has not used the shroud in anyway so that's why I believe he hasn't mastered it yet.
Not entirely sure how a Water Shuriken would make him on pair with Mega Sceptile, especially considering it heavily resists Water... Mastered or not doesn't matter, unless Greninja gets an Ice Attack, him beating Mega Sceptile is like Ritchie's Sparky beating Ash's Charizard because it decided to sleep out of disrespect. Horrible. I can tolerate this show's lack of common sense to type advantages to a point, but you can not convince me that Aerial Ace is a reason why Greninja can win. Rookie or not, Greninja has the same amount of experience that Sceptile has.
 

Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
So the episode I watched didn`t have subtitles yet. Did Sawyer mentioned any newly acquired badges?
 

Master_Tyrell

Well-Known Member
Not entirely sure how a Water Shuriken would make him on pair with Mega Sceptile, especially considering it heavily resists Water... Mastered or not doesn't matter, unless Greninja gets an Ice Attack, him beating Mega Sceptile is like Ritchie's Sparky beating Ash's Charizard because it decided to sleep out of disrespect. Horrible. I can tolerate this show's lack of common sense to type advantages to a point, but you can not convince me that Aerial Ace is a reason why Greninja can win. Rookie or not, Greninja has the same amount of experience that Sceptile has.

I never said Water Shuriken will beat Mega Sceptile. I'm perfectly aware of how strongly Mega Sceptile resists Water. But, if Mastering the Water Shroud and being able to use it more offensively by making Aerial Ace into 2 Water Swords increasing the power significantly, then I don't see it impossible or unbelievable if it were to win. Of course, both Pokémon have the same, or relatively similar, experience, which is why the difference will lay on the trainer's calls and outsmarting the opponent.
 

Janovy

Banned
They just battled, Alain might as well have been a CotD for how much they interacted.
Except he wasn't. We know Alain will appear again in the future, so I see no reason to be disappointed. It's not like this is going to be Alain's one and only interaction with Ash.

I mean, f*ck, they even managed to neuter the whole pain-split thing because I guess eating a blast burn = taking a decently long walk.
Right, the blast should have just sent Ash straight into coma. I mean the Pokemon was covered in in a veil of water, fire isn't effective against water.

Neither is XY :x

(I miss DP)

True, but I trust XY that it will do us right based on its writing.
 

AuraChannelerChris

Easygoing Luxray.
Sooooo is this were Greninja's depression arc starts? He looks pretty happy to me.

And I only expect Scottie Sawyer to have a decent battle against Ash at the league. A win is a bit too much for someone who was literally stepping on your footsteps.
 

1rkhachatryan

Call me Robert guys
Good god Sawyer is pathetic. And people got mad at me when I said they gave him anime only badges because he was too weak to earn real ones. The Kalos gym leaders would of wiped the floor with his butt.

Seriously, that's 3 of his pokemon now that have gotten 1 hit KO'd. Bagon/Shelgon multiple times smh -_-....
 

Janovy

Banned
Sooooo is this were Greninja's depression arc starts? He looks pretty happy to me.
At what point in this episode did it look like to you as if Greninja's "depression arc" was starting?
 

RickHoenn

Banned
Amazing episode, I hope Ash and Sawyer have a great battle at the league, obviously Ash winning or maybe a powerful rival appears and beats Sawyer just like it happened to Barry at the Sinnoh league.

I want Alain to start collecting badges, plz!!
 
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Janovy

Banned
Never. People kept assuming it was a thing because of wasted opening material. Just adding fuel to the fire here.
But there's no fire? Obviously, even if there's an arc, it's not starting here.
 

Master_Tyrell

Well-Known Member
Never. People kept assuming it was a thing because of wasted opening material. Just adding fuel to the fire here.

I still think, personally, that something between them might happen. I mean, Olympia did say they should not forget their love and all of those things. There's no reason to mention it, plus show those scenes in the opening, if nothing is going to happen.... But well, could just be to hype something that will never happen which would be unfortunate.
 

nuzamaki90

Well-Known Member
They just battled, Alain might as well have been a CotD for how much they interacted.

I mean to Ash he really is. There was nothing significant about Alain that would really warrant Ash to go "oh hey this guy is important". He pretty much acted the same way he did to Ayaka in the movie; Battle, greet, comment on suigoi mega shinka and then leave.
 

phanpycross

God-king
Except he wasn't. We know Alain will appear again in the future, so I see no reason to be disappointed. It's not like this is going to be Alain's one and only interaction with Ash.


Right, the blast should have just sent Ash straight into coma. I mean the Pokemon was covered in in a veil of water, fire isn't effective against water.
You dont say?

Didnt say coma, but a small burn or something at least, when you consider it killed an E4's mega.
 

Blue Saturday

Unfurl your Blessed Wings!
As nice as off-screen training and improvement is, I still want these rivals to at least showcase their prowess in person. Collectively so far we have on-screen in terms of confrotations:

Tierno

-Losing each Summer Camp event.
-Losing the final battle.
-Getting rocked by Numelgon / Pikachu.
-Getting showed up by Serena's green Eevee.

Yet we're told he won the Voltage Badge but lost the Psychic Gym Badge Battle, the latter being meant as hype for Satoshi's future victory.

Shouta

-Gets beaten by Citron.
-Gets beaten by Satoshi.
-Gets beaten by Mache-san. (But this is meant as hype to boost Satoshi's victory.)
-Gets beaten by Satoshi again.
-Gets smashed here by Satoshi again.

But we're told he got five badges and that he's not going to the Eisetsu Gym because it's too strong for him (but this is meant to glorify Satoshi's future victory over it).

Trova

-Lost the Summer Camp events.
-Lost the Team Battle.
-Lost to Satoshi.

He snapped a picture of Fire though so that's an achievement but it's nothing he rivals Satoshi in, he got the Bug Badge off-screen too.

Millefeui

-Lost Poffle comp.
-Lost TriPokalon.
-Lost to Serena's new Nymphia.

Sana

- Lost to Serena.
- Lost camp events.
- Lost final team battle.

She did win the first TriPokalon but it got downplayed by Yashio because she deemed her uninspirational trash in-comparison to Serena, oh and Serena never really got to compete SMH. She got a Key off-screen too.

Nene

- Lost TriPokalon in Theme Performance.
- Lost another TriPokalon in Free Performance.

Got two keys off-screen.

Musashi

- Lost a bunch of these things until she got her first key later on, fair and square. Win was not downplayed and everything was just.

In-general, I'm sick of this trend of rivals being used as tools to make the main characters look better. I want on-screen self-proclaimed victories so I can actually see the prowess of these characters, this is what a "rival" is. I don't care if Serena is a prodigy at beauty pageants or of Satoshi "five regions of experience" (You should all know by that point that doesn't even matter given Satoshi has slayed way more experienced trainers several times himself.) At this point, I'm wondering if this is going to go on forever, which is why I'm starting to think Shouta might just turn things around at the league because everything's so lopsided at this point. Shouta can show "better power" with a more aesthetically pleasing team and more keen eye all he wants but actually winning is something else in itself. You cannot have a main rival lose forever. Serena already has her dream killer with the Shiny mon and all set and ready so this might it for her too.
 
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LizardonX

Banned
It's too bad Charizard didn't finish Greninja off with a flare blitz or dragon claw.

Otherwise the ep is pretty good. Plenty of action and we get to see best Charizard in action put down the invincible special snowflake frog.

Could have used more Chespin humor though.

8.5/10.
 

Soniman

Break the Limit
Shouta

-Gets beaten by Citron.
-Gets beaten by Satoshi.
-Gets beaten by Mache-san. (But this is meant as hype to boost Satoshi's victory.)
-Gets beaten by Satoshi again.
-Gets smashed here by Satoshi again.

But we're told he got five badges and that he's not going to the Eisetsu Gym because it's too strong for him (but this is meant to glorify Satoshi's future victory over it).
The first battle with Ash was interrupted, Ash did not win (I know you might argue that he would've won but that's not what happened)


Millefeui

-Lost Poffle comp.
-Lost TriPokalon.
-Lost to Serena's new Nymphia.
Serena lost the Poffle comp to so that doesn't count.

She did win the first TriPokalon but it got downplayed by Yashio because she deemed her uninspirational trash in-comparison to Serena, oh and Serena never really got to compete SMH. She got a Key off-screen too.
This actually isn't true at all and im not sure why the you keep insisting it is. Yaisho hated Serena JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE and expressed very mild curiosity/interest in her at the end when she saw her with her Pokémon. AT NO POINT did the narrative ever imply she thought she was better then Shauna, and for the record Serena was in the Tripokalon so yes she did compete and Shauna did in fact "beat" her.
 
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