A question for the fans

[JoshYEAH]

Well. I must say that this whole new VA thing is simply delightful! I've been reading that topic as it progressed, and well, I'm simply stunned, in all honesty. I'm stunned at several things really. Hey, you should be stunned too though, I mean, we have several of the voice acotrs - old and new - posting here, and of course, we've got ourselves a delightful argument! Or rather, discussion. Yeah, we'll keep it at that.

Because I'm like this, I'm going to put forth a question to the fans, myself. I hope you take the time to contemplate the answer! I actually brought this up in the chat, not too long ago. Here's the log for you all to look over.

(7:31:27 pm) «+Josherific» i've been reading the thread, tbh, seems like much ado about nothing :/
(7:31:30 pm) «+Josherific» but hey, that's fans
(7:32:04 pm) «+Josherific» although i question just how big a fan people are, because, all the members of the forum seem to do is complain about the dub
(7:32:16 pm) «+Josherific» there are very few posts commenting on what's good about it
(7:32:27 pm) «+Josherific» seems like everyone just focuses on the bad points. Yeah, that's the fans.

So then. I really would like to ask why everyone seems to be focusing on what's bad about this new direction. Seems to me like it's just a simple case of people not liking change, and being all hyperactive about it, really. Nintendo Wii, anyone?

I'm sure you all know that I'm not especially learned too well in the pokemon anime, and what I may be saying here is what you might call Grade-A bullcrap, but, alas, I simply do not understand how the fans seem to react this way, and not even attempt to focus on the good points, and then attempt to call themselves fans!

I perfectly understand the whole "omfg I don't like the voices" argument. because it's in the simplest form possible, naturally. However, there are people that complain all day and all night about the dub, and never see anything good about it whatsoever. It's all well and good being critical darlings, but there's a line. From what I can see, the pokemon anime is attacked from all angles (or rather, 4kids, who apparentley are to blame for everything and anything that goes wrong in the world) and there is nothing actually mentioned about the dub that reflects on the good points of it. Please don't ask me to state the good points, as I don't actually know that much about it. What I do know is that the "fans" that habit these forums aren't really being very fan-like at all.

However, I'm not really stating much more than mere opinion based on direct observation. I've probably made several mistakes in this post about whatever it is you think, and that's fine. You can yell at me if you like, I encourage you to! Be a fan, huh?

I'm running out of things to say. So I think I'll leave this post at that. I'll probably be flamed or something, but then, when isn't that happening? Oh yeah, Gaiash, I can understand the things that are said about you after reading that thread. If I learned anything, it's that.

This will probably be my one and only broadcast here, I don't know. I just thought I'd add my thoughts on the whole reaction to this, rather than my thoughts towards the new voices.

I'll leave you with a final note in regards to the VA's being here;

It's great to see the VA's getting involved with the fan community, that's always a great sign, and it shows that there are people that care about what the fans think.

Have fun.

-Josh

(I had origionally posted this in the central thread, however Serebii stated it'd be better suited within it's own. So that's that.)

 

[Fatal]

I didn't really complain about it, I dunno, I'm not that big of a fan of the Pokemon anime anymore. I still like it, but not like I play the games or watch other anime.

I don't think the VA's should have been replaced, but they were, and now I don't really think there's any changing that. Sure, we were all used to the old voices, but I think after some time we can get used to these. I think perhaps the Pokemon anime will lose some fans, strictly because of the new voices, and I partially agree that they're not giving it much of a chance.

Some of the new ones are all right, and some can use a lot of improvement. I have grown up with the same character voices since I was a small kid, but maybe I can grow to like these somewhat. Yeah it's a change, but they're not completely bad. =/


-Fatal

 

[Fez the Mysfit Elf]

The fans are complaining about the new VA's because they're terrible! They don't sound at all like the real VA's. The don't even try to sound like them, and the one's that do try are just plain bad! People aren't saying good things about the special because there wasn't anything good about it. And we aren't afraid of change; we just wish that if they were forced to change, they could have at least done a good job about it.

 

[The Benmeister]

The fans are complaining about the new VA's because they're terrible! They don't sound at all like the real VA's. The don't even try to sound like them, and the one's that do try are just plain bad! People aren't saying good things about the special because there wasn't anything good about it. And we aren't afraid of change; we just wish that if they were forced to change, they could have at least done a good job about it.

But they're just dub voices. None are supposed to sound like the 'real' VA's - they're just voices, and had you grown up with the new ones instead, you would have complained had they been changed. Josh has made a good point - it's just the change that's getting everyone. You all have the right to complain of course, but in the end they're just voice overs trying to earn a living.

 

[halloweenghost]

The fans are complaining about the new VA's because they're terrible! They don't sound at all like the real VA's. The don't even try to sound like them, and the one's that do try are just plain bad! People aren't saying good things about the special because there wasn't anything good about it. And we aren't afraid of change; we just wish that if they were forced to change, they could have at least done a good job about it.

So wrong there saying they are not trying to sound like them. Yes they do sound like they are trying to sound like them,..just not carbon copy.

Now if Ash sounded like lt surge, Brock sounded like max, max sounded like mickey mouse and so on I'm sure you get the picture here,..... now that would sound like they are not even trying to sound like the original voices.

 

[Jesse GS the II]

The primary reason that I gripe about the anime is because 4Kids turned it into a completely different show in America. It used to be this smart-alecky, irreverent anime with a lot of goofy visual humor and a deep, underlying sense of strong characterization amid the great writing. Then 4Kids saturated it with Westernization and took away a huge percentage of its charm, rendering it no different than anything else one might find on Saturday mornings. I miss what the show used to be, and if I say anything positive, it's in praise of the Japanese producers for still managing to stick it out and try their darndest to maintain a sense of artistic integrity under an American dubbing company's iron thumb. Hopefully, come Season 9, PUSA will wise up.

 

[Pyreo]

You hear people complain more because when you're satisfied with parts of a show, you don't go around voicing it. You just go ahead and keep watching. People who find something to nitpick about will go and state their opinion so it seems like everybody hates the show.

I guess I shouldn't complain anyway, since I fell out of keeping up with the animé when the episodes started become carbon copies of each other. It was much more amusing to watch years ago, either because the show had substance or I was just younger.

People will complain about new voices because, except for a very small percentage of episodes, these are the only voices we've had. We've become INCREDIBLY used to them and the regular voices is all we have to compare the new ones to, not like a single bad plot line out of 50 or so.

Now I'm starting to get the feeling I'm not making sense...

I complain almost non-stop about every fandom I'm in because somewhere along the way, they let me down. That's about it.

 

[Fez the Mysfit Elf]

So wrong there saying they are not trying to sound like them. Yes they do sound like they are trying to sound like them,..just not carbon copy.

Now if Ash sounded like lt surge, Brock sounded like max, max sounded like mickey mouse and so on I'm sure you get the picture here,..... now that would sound like they are not even trying to sound like the original voices.

Okay, this is what I said:

They don't sound at all like the real VA's. The don't even try to sound like them, and the one's that do try are just plain bad!

You'll notice that I said the VA's that try to sound like them are terrible. I didn't say that all of them weren't trying to sound like the real VA's, just mainly May and Ash. They don't even try to sound like how the characters are supposed to. The new VA's tried to give them entirely new voices. Why would they even do that, if people wanted the originals?

 

[Ampris]

While 4Kids dubbing is almost as far from perfect as possible, and they have also, as Jesse GS the II said, negatively influenced Shogakukan to change a wonderful show for the worse, I can't write them off completely because without them I would have likely never seen Pokemon.
I don't have access to the original Japanese, so the dub is my only means of watching it. If I could, seeing the original sounds fantastic, but the fact is that I simply can't.
Yes, the griping about 4Kids is perfectly justified, but the ones who never have anything good to say about it probably aren't confined to the dub alone. I have complained about, and even mocked 4Kids quite frequently, but without them I would have nothing at all, and in my opinion that's much worse than having a poorly dubbed show.


And about the new VA's,

But they're just dub voices. None are supposed to sound like the 'real' VA's - they're just voices, and had you grown up with the new ones instead, you would have complained had they been changed.

You're right, if the new actors had been the ones who were here for such an extensive time, it would be exactly the same. It the roles were reversed and they were hiring Taylor, Stuart, and Lillis to replace the current 'new' VA's, if they had been with the show for so long, we would be fighting to save them. If they had had years of time to grow into the roles, and whether we thought they were perfect or not(there have been many complaints about the original's voicing), we wouldn't stand by and let them be changed. But it just happens that it's the current cast that has become such an integral part of the show for so many fans, so they are the ones we're sorry to see let go.


Edit-

They don't sound at all like the real VA's. The don't even try to sound like them, and the one's that do try are just plain bad!

You'll notice that I said the VA's that try to sound like them are terrible. I didn't say that all of them weren't trying to sound like the real VA's, just mainly May and Ash. They don't even try to sound like how the characters are supposed to. The new VA's tried to give them entirely new voices. Why would they even do that, if people wanted the originals?

The new VA's *were* trying to sound like the originals, that's been established. The voices are a staple in any animated production, so PUSA wouldn't completely change them all in one swoop, especially with something as huge as Pokemon.
The old actors were familiar to so many people, and PUSA knew that so they had the new cast imitate the old VA's to maintain continuity.
They didn't do quite as well as desired, no offense to the new VA's, but they were definitely trying to sound like the original voices.

 

[The Great Butler]

I enjoy the dub, and I found the one subbed episode (which was Electric Soldier Porygon) that I watched unbearable except for the infamous Seizure Rave part. So I guess that makes me the black sheep of the Serebii family.....

.....or should I say I *enjoyed* the dub. Mastermind of Mirage Pokémon was better than just going ahead to the random Onix filler ep, but the PUSA script was utterly horrible. They tried to squeeze almost everything that ever happened in Pokémon's eight years into a one hour show. They ripped Misty's character to shreds, insulted all the May fans (that's right, I'm actually sticking up for you guys here) and made Brock look like an online predator (can't you picture him now, stalking Officer Jenny on the internet?) And that's three things that were badly wrong with it without the words 'New Voice Actors' in them.

Al Kahn might be the biggest jerk in the world. 4Kids might just be interested in their business without a care for entertainment. But what I saw last Saturday, if it was to be a forecast of what's to come, was chilling. PUSA needs to get their act together NOW. They need to tighten up the scrips a lot, repair the characters they destroyed, and push the voices to get better.

 

[Chris]

But what I saw last Saturday, if it was to be a forecast of what's to come, was chilling. PUSA needs to get their act together NOW. They need to tighten up the scrips a lot, repair the characters they destroyed, and push the voices to get better.

Huge difference between a special originally written intended for the American fanbase and a series originally written for the Japanese fanbase that's then later adapted for the American one. ;\

 

[Pyreo]

You're right, if the new actors had been the ones who were here for such an extensive time, it would be exactly the same. It the roles were reversed and they were hiring Taylor, Stuart, and Lillis to replace the current 'new' VA's, if they had been with the show for so long, we would be fighting to save them.

That's not entirely true, it's not all just opinion. Some voices, mainly May, for example, just do not fit the character, at all. There are reasons to gripe about a new cast other than that they're new, not that I'm saying the old voices were totally perfect.

And besides, it the fact that we were accustomed to those voices all that meaningless? Having the actors replaced detracts from my enjoyment of the show and that's not what they should be trying to do, for whatever reason.

 

[The Great Butler]

Huge difference between a special originally written intended for the American fanbase and a series originally written for the Japanese fanbase that's then later adapted for the American one. ;\

I still wouldn't want to see season 9 dubbed with scripts similar to Mastermind's........even though I enjoyed it. (The enjoyable wickedness of Dr. Yung and the battles managed to overcome the awful script....but not every episode can do that, obviously.)

 

[Chris]

That right there is my biggest complaint about you guys.

Once again, you're assuming the worst of things that are to happen. And I thought the dub haters were bad for assuming just about the worst of 4Kids. You haven't even seen how Season 9 is going, or if it's even in dubbing production, and already the lot of you are screaming and crying about it going to be bad or the possibility of being like the special. :|

 

[The Great Butler]

That right there is my biggest complaint about you guys.

Once again, you're assuming the worst of things that are to happen. And I thought the dub haters were bad for assuming just about the worst of 4Kids. You haven't even seen how Season 9 is going, or if it's even in dubbing production, and already the lot of you are screaming and crying about it going to be bad or the possibility of being like the special. :|

Whoa, hold the phone. All I said was I didn't want to see the awful scripts become consistant.

I still wouldn't want to see season 9 dubbed with scripts similar to Mastermind's........even though I enjoyed it. (The enjoyable wickedness of Dr. Yung and the battles managed to overcome the awful script....but not every episode can do that, obviously.)

See? I said I didn't want it to happen, not that I assumed or expected it to.

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

But they're just dub voices. None are supposed to sound like the 'real' VA's - they're just voices

It's thinking like that that gives us bad dubs to begin with. If we don't expect more out of dubs, they're never going to get better.

 

[Heracross]

Where to begin? I for one am looking forward to seeing just how exactly PUSA will handle the series. As I didn't see the special in its entirety, and the Japanese version still has yet to air, I really don't have much to go by as far as judging the actual dubbing process, but I was certainly pleased to hear good music being played for the first time in several years in a new non-movie dub.

Positives about 4Kids's dub? Well, there certainly were many more of those back in the day, to say the least. Even though their policy on the culture was absurd at best, I was still able to enjoy the show as a majority of the original music was kept. And even before I saw a single episode in the original language, it was very clear to me that the music was far superior in those days as opposed to the formulaic and emotionless synthesizer rubbish passed off as a musical score in recent years. And James's voice is not unlike the music in that it started out brilliantly and ended up being so hateful to my ears that I found I couldn't enjoy the show any longer.

In short, 4Kids's dub in the beginning, while far from perfect, was certainly enjoyable. They screwed up, now I can't stand it, and am looking to PUSA to correct the things which I have found to be inadequate. If they don't live up to my expectations either, I'll simply continue not watching the dub. No big loss. ;/

 

[Willow's Tara]

You know, everyone complains about everything, people who claims they love Lost or Charmed are complaining. People who loved Pokemon are complaining.

And now I been having a what you call it (Epipany?), I watch Charmed, I watch Lost, I watch Smallville and Pokemon and try to see what everyone's problem is, but you know what I think? They don't love it enough, a true fan stays close to the show and doesn't care what it does. Sure it has to have a decent quality in it but still.
People complain Home and Away doesn't have a good day, but what would the point be if they did?
People complain Lost has too many questions- Who cares! It keeps us interested, or aleast me.
People complain because Charmed has a magic school- I say, hey a good idea, why not? Who care sif it relates to Harry Potter.

And the final and on topic one...Pokemon: People complain about dub voices who they will never know, people complain, Do they actually listen? I think the voices are good, sure Brock's sounda a bit wierd and James's doesn't sound good at all (But I migght change my mind, dunno).
People complain about the Dub titles, but who cares about that? As long as Pokemon is there I am find, and there are still decent episodes out there coming...

I thought Mastermind of the Mirage Pokemon was really good, but it just me or are people actually saying it's bad?


I done alot of thinking lately, and I wonder if these who complain, are really true fans?

 

[Wobbuffeted]

I think you can be a fan and complain, just like I've known people who may like someone, but treat them like dirt. Maybe some people just get so attached that they lose their objectivity, or they get so attached that they get mad when the object of their fandom doesn't live up to what they want. People have different ways of showing their affection.

 

[zonic the hedgehog]

*shrugs*

Well, I actually did enjoy the special quite a bit, even though the story wasn't that great (although it was American-written...).

The new dub voices weren't THAT bad, IMO.

Sure, some of them sure sounded like PUSA was really taking the piss on who they choose for voice actors, but at least they sounded somewhat in-character and familiar (they HAVE to change James, however. CAN NOT STAND THAT NEW VOICE OF HIS).

I was actually enticed by the fact that the action, music and drama can actually make up for a bad voice acting cast.

So I don't really mind in that aspect, and I'm pretty sure these new voice actors won't get WORSE, but BETTER as time goes on.

I don't see why people are still complaining and actually are crazy enough to WANT 4kids to dub an anime.