A Rant on Journey Fics

[Breezy]

Posting this here because this forum is dead, and we need a semi-intelligent discussion. Or at least something to debate. It is a little dated as I wrote this a few months ago; the quote I'm using as the basis of my argument is from an actual reviewer, so I waited for a bit in hopes that everyone won't know who it is from.

If you're a journey fic writer or have at least read a few of journey fics, you may have noticed a review such as the following:

Here's my completely honest opinion: I cannot stand these kinds of stories. The journey thing has just become so cliche and uninteresting because the order of events are almost always the same, as is the outcome. Now I'm not going to say to "stop writing this story" because this is really good practice for you. Not only that, but I want to challenge you. Write something in this journey fic that has never been done before that you know will surprise us all. Think of a situation, action, or whatever to captivate us all.

This, unfortunately, is how a good number of people, who probably have not written or quit their own journey fic, feel about this pokemon genre.

I am tired of people saying that journey fics are boring. That they're cliche. That they're all the same. Admittedly, most do start the same: Wake up, walk to lab, get pokemon. I will also admit that most do follow the backbone plot of character following dream to becoming pokemon champion by obtaining badges, thus leading to some form of league, in either the Elite 4 game canon, or more anime with a series of battles -- or it seems that way. To say that they're uninteresting, though, is pushing it. Of all the COMPLETE journey fics I have read or ones that have an author who has the will to continue with his journey fic, I cannot say that I was not interested, if not captivated, by the world the author has weaved or the characters he has created. To look at a journey 'fic that has been in the works for quite some time, even if it's not your cup of tea, and say that's it's just "a kid after badges" is a lie.

If I were to estimate the amount of journey fics there are at SPPf, I'd probably estimate a good few hundred. 90% (probably more) won't make it past the first five chapters. This number will dwindle; less then half will reach the "midway" point of their story. From this number, most people will take the route of what seems to be what I like to call the topical "chosen one" plot twist, breaking away from what this reviewer would consider a "basic journey fic." If the writer chooses--no pun intended--not to go the "chosen one" genre, then there is some sort of twist or plot point that deviates away from what many a reviewer would call a regular journey 'fic.

And, well, that's the thing. How do you exactly define a journey fic? Despite similar back plots, no two journey fics are similar. However, for the sake of argument, I will try to sum it up using stereotypes:

1. a scene for character(s) to get pokemon, usually at a lab, or by other common means (an egg, inherited from a parent, etc.)
2. a "quest" of some sort for character(s) to go to. This usually refers to--but not limited to--character traveling the region to obtain badges or ribbons to qualify for some sort of league or festival. The main point is that the character is, ahem, journeying for some purpose
3. (optional) some sort of conflict, usually human vs. human. To put it into example, character vs. Team Magikarp
4. (optional again, but recommended if you have plot point 3) character usually defeats Team Magikarp or gets decimated by them. However, character(s) usually redeem themselves near the end of the story
5. character gets required badges/ribbons
6. character makes it to league/festival
7. character wins/loses
8. character gets eaten by magikarp

give or take a few other plot points and magikarp. What seems to be the defining characteristic of a journey fic is exactly in its genre title: a journey, usually physical (though a mental one be kind of an interesting spin), about traveling throughout some region with some sort of motivation. I would call this the bare, bare backbone of a journey fic; many journey fic writers do not leave it at this, and if they do, well, they don't last long.

To tackle the above reviewer's argument against journey fics, let's take this piece by piece, starting with the most common argument:

1) "They're easy to write."

Really? Then why are there only five or so (point is, not many) decent journey fics (and I'm pretty lenient on decent) in the complete section at SPPf, two (Ross Ferguson's Journey of Champion: in Kanto and Archangel A.J.'s R.J. -- Legacy of a Master) not completed? If it's "easy" then why do most authors abandon their journey fic within the first five chapters? Of course journey fics are easy; it's a very straight through outline. The intricate detail, though? That's where things get messy.

Journey 'fics, if we're going with a generic "kid going for a canon league" need at least ten chapters, if the author wants to pace properly. Eight of these chapters are dedicated to gym battles (not unless we're traveling the Orange Islands where you only need four badges or some other region that does not require the usual eight). One is for an introduction. The other is for the ending. This amount already is longer than most stories at SPPf. This isn't including proper pacing, or the chapters that include character development in the physical (catching pokemon), emotional, or mental/maturation. Running journey fics at SPPf are around 40+ chapters, and most of these stories barely, if haven't, made it to the climax of their story. You could rush through it; you could skip through the actual "journeying" part of the story to cut length, but then again, it wouldn't be much a journey fic, would it?

Besides the daunting task of proper pacing, which is one of the key factors of a journey fic, a journey fic writer also has to worry about general writing issues: well-rounded characters (or flat, if contrasting with round characters, but that's usually because the flat character has a purpose), working with canon, plausibility, etc. Indeed; journey fics can be simple in structure, but they require the same amount, if not more, planning than other pokemon genres.

2) "The journey thing has just become so cliche and uninteresting because the order of events are almost always the same, as is the outcome."

To use the same argument in other pokemon genres:

"The pokemon-centric thing has just become so cliche and uninteresting because it's a bunch of humanized pokemon complaining about things that they really shouldn't be complaining about anyway."

"The chosen one thing has just become so cliche and uninteresting because its always some character that single handedly defeats some sort of evil deity (Lord Magikarp). The order of the events are almost always the same, as is the outcome."

"The character analysis thing has become so cliche and uninteresting because its just a character going through events in his life before having some realization."

That's the point. That's what makes the journey fic a journey fic, as do the following traits in other pokemon genres. The outcome of a journey fic isn't important. This reviewer is right in saying that the outcome is always the same: the character either makes it or he doesn't (to compare to other pokemon genres, pokemon-centric either has the pokemon reforms to whatever it does not like or rebels, or chosen one where he/she usually defeat Lord Magikarp). What makes a journey fic is, well, the journey. The following of a character or a group of characters and seeing them travel the world, develop and grow as not only trainers but as human beings.

3) "Write something in this journey fic that has never been done before that you know will surprise us all. Think of a situation, action, or whatever to captivate us all."

What the reviewer is asking here is something simple yet complex at the same time: originality. Something that goes beyond the "journey fic" that isn't just collecting badges. Most do. To say that a undeveloped character with generic group of friends goes through a 2D adventure to collect badges with maybe an encounter from Team Magikarp is the best story ever is an obvious lie, and if that's all there is to your story (i.e you don't develop anything), then your story is crap. You need to build upon the basics. Create realistic characters (ex. have faults), or at least developed ones. Be creative. With such a basic plot, there sky, really, is your limit (assuming you're not just going "it started raining magikarp" without explanation anyway). As a journey fic writer myself,

This isn't to say you need a gimmick, like this reviewer is implying. You don't need flashing lights, loud noises, free car giveaways (though I will love you if you do). It is quite impossible to write something "that has never been done before" not only in journey fics, but in any type of story. What's important is how you go about writing your story, and how you put your own creative spin on what would be a "cliche, uninteresting" story, even if your story is just a boy, his poochyena, and going through Hoenn to get badges. And kick a Magikarp or two.

There is reason why the running/completed journey fics on this forum are popular and loved by their readers with some of the stories outlasting their authors. Why? There is no simple answer for that. Some like the story for the characters. Some like the story for the major plot. Some like it for its attention to detail. Some like it for the author's style of writing. The point is that journey fics, although assumed to be "are all the same" are, in fact, not. Each journey fic has an element that differs themselves from other journey fics, or any other story period.



tl;dr: People say journey fics are boring and something about magikarp. Discuss.

 

[Mimori Kiryu]

You put up a good argument, Breezy. Honestly, I agree with everything you've said. I mean, the world has endless amounts of people and if it were like the pokemon world, everyone would have a different story.

Everyone lives a different life. Some people live with both parents, some with only one and some with neither (grandparents, etc.) and when writers have characters like that, readers want to say its cliche to do so. That annoys the hell out of me. It's like calling the people who really live that way cliche and that their life is just an every day life and that it's not special. Journey fics were created to tell a story from someone elses perspective. Honestly, I can't say that they're all the same. In fact, they're really different. The writing style is different, the characters are different, the setting of their family life and world is different even though it may be set in the same location.

And the problem with calling the plot cliche is because there's really no other way to go about a journey fic. Each character has to wake up, get ready and then get their pokemon. If there's another way to start a journey fic other than that as the base, then someone please tell me because I don't see it happening. No matter which was you do it, that is going to be the basis whether anything else happens or not.

Me personally? I love journey fics. As long as they're well written with some thought put behind the words on the screen, I'll enjoy it. The first journey fic I ever read was Pokemon Revelation: Cross of Fates by Saber here on SPP. Best journey fic I've ever read and I wait for the day she finishes the sequel. I tried to write a journey fic after reading hers and realized that writing them wasn't for me. xD But I still enjoy reading them, it's like reading into someone elses life.

And honestly, what plot isn't cliche anymore? I think that word is really overused. >.>;

 

[Ysavvryl]

You can start out a journeyfic minus the lab scene, provided you have another method of the Trainer obtaining their first Pokemon. However, that often turns out harder to do, because you're already straying from the formula.

But then, just because you're following a formula (lab-Pokemon-first town-etc) doesn't mean you're being cliche. It's more like following a recipe for cake. If you deviate too much from the formula, your cake/fic turns into a disaster or turns into a brownie. But then you can use the formula with whatever additions you like, getting chocolate or angel food cake as a result. Those two cakes have very different procedures, but the same basic ingredients. You can say the same for successful 'chosen one journey' and 'parody crackfic journey' stories.

So, I agree with the above posts. I like reading and writing journeyfics. Mine just end up something offbeat, like mayonnaise cake (which is real, honest).

 

[Negrek]

And the problem with calling the plot cliche is because there's really no other way to go about a journey fic. Each character has to wake up, get ready and then get their pokemon. If there's another way to start a journey fic other than that as the base, then someone please tell me because I don't see it happening.

Whut. Any of these just to begin with? Why do you even need to begin at the "beginning" of a trainer's journey? There aren't many journeyfics that do otherwise out there, but most of them are better for it, and it's not really a mind-blowing exercise to come up with a good way to start off without the "lab scene" (or the "last day of pokémon academy" scene, or the "found injured pokémon" scene...). Quite often people write the first chapter or two of their journeyfic such that they're the least important and most boring overall, which is... counterproductive.

 

[Dragonfree]

The argument that journey fics are bad by definition is silly. It assumes that the very basic plot structure is all there is to a story, when that is a relatively small part of it. What really matters is the actual meat of the story: the characterization, how the setting is written and described, the little events, confrontations and subplots that happen in between those routine gym battles.

The thing a lot of people, both authors and reviewers, don't seem to realize is that journey fics, assuming no other main plot comes along to hijack it, are essentially supposed to be character-based stories. The basic journey fic plot is there as a framework around the story of the main character's adventures as a trainer, as an independent person far away from his parents learning to deal with the world. These plain journey fics are not about what they're actually out there in the world for; it's about their experiences, troubles, pains and dangers during that time, how they deal with them and how they grow as people while exploring the world they live in. When authors forget this, it leads to a story that's a simple rehash of the games or anime, with flat placeholder characters taking the world for granted and collecting the badges as if we're automatically supposed to care. When reviewers forget this, it leads to dismissing fascinating, well-written stories out of pure prejudice about the genre.

As such, I really don't think it matters any whether the story starts with a lab scene of some sort or something else. If you assume the world is one where this is generally what happens, go for it; in the grand scheme of things, it's unimportant precisely how the main character happens to obtain their first Pokémon, while their characterization during that first chapter should be what matters.

Relatedly, what has always bugged me about Farla's proposition that beginning with the trainer obtaining their first Pokémon is unnecessary and boring is that this only applies if the story is not this sort of essentially character-based journey fic. The point, in such a fic, really is the journey; to skip ahead to where the trainer has already been through half of their potentially interesting experiences is to miss that point. If it's a fic that's truly about somebody who happens to be an established trainer by that point getting entangled in some other plot, sure, skip ahead to where that happens, but there doesn't need to be something that could sensibly be skipped ahead to at all in order for the fic to be potentially enjoyable, and even if there is, it doesn't mean everything that happens before that point is extraneous fluff that might as well be cut out.

[/rant that should probably be directed at Farla herself instead of this thread but whatever]

 

[Mimori Kiryu]

Whut. Any of these just to begin with? Why do you even need to begin at the "beginning" of a trainer's journey? There aren't many journeyfics that do otherwise out there, but most of them are better for it, and it's not really a mind-blowing exercise to come up with a good way to start off without the "lab scene" (or the "last day of pokémon academy" scene, or the "found injured pokémon" scene...). Quite often people write the first chapter or two of their journeyfic such that they're the least important and most boring overall, which is... counterproductive.

I've read those but I also agree with Dragonfree above. Honestly, while you can skip forward in time to have a different beginning, don't you miss a lot by skipping the beginning? I wouldn't read a story like that, to be honest with you.

 

[BynineB]

The bad ones are almost always the same...

I've yet to see a good journey fiction, but I'm sure there are plenty.

 

[Breezy]

The bad ones are almost always the same...

Not sure if serious, but I'll bite.

Well, most new authors (aka "bad ones" if I'm reading you right) follow similar formulas in all pokemon genres and not just journey ones. I mean, I've read "bad" pokemon-based fics that follow a similar structure of:

1) questioning some sort of life choice/style
2) some fork in the road moment ("do I stay or do I go?")
3) assimilation or rebellion

(semi bildungsroman. Not quite, but eh)

So it's not that journey fics are bad or the structure of it is bad; it's just the author isn't, well, up to par in writing, thus making the story "bad." Didn't I mention structure somewhere in ramble anyway?

Again, journey fics are simple in terms of back plot structure (kid getting badges and whatnot) and are relatively linear which is why new authors are attracted to them; the plot doesn't, in essence, require much thinking if you're sticking to the bare, bare basics. I think it is around chapter five or so, like before or after the first gym, is when the new author realizes that a journey fic is a lot of work and usually scraps the idea. Excluding actual character development, you still got to have your character progress through an entire region, so imagine how huge a task that would seem to a new writer. Simple or not (again, debatable), you have to have a lot of time and energy to write a journey fic.

And then there's the whole "character development" thing which doesn't come as easy to people. Most new writers start off with a character that is unrelatable (usually a bordering mary sue sort) who doesn't necessarily need to change or mature, and character growth/development is usually what buys/sells a reader.

Hence the whole "wake up, lab, first gym, quit" pattern you probably see, and I'll be honest: nothing much has happened to your characters in the first few chapters, hence the similar pattern. I honestly can't think of any "bad" journey fics that are still running past ten chapters. Then again, your definition of bad might be different from mine.

I do understand that journey fics aren't everyone's cup of tea, and that's fine. I just don't want everyone to assume that a journey fic follows this similar criteria of wake up, lab, travel, conflict, league or just because it starts out with a lab scene that is must be uncreative and boring. Like Dragonfree said, what attracts people to journey fics is the actual development of the character. The plot can be simple and complex, but if your characters don't grow or develop in any way, then you really have nothing going for your story.

 

[Negrek]

Relatedly, what has always bugged me about Farla's proposition that beginning with the trainer obtaining their first Pokémon is unnecessary and boring is that this only applies if the story is not this sort of essentially character-based journey fic. The point, in such a fic, really is the journey; to skip ahead to where the trainer has already been through half of their potentially interesting experiences is to miss that point. If it's a fic that's truly about somebody who happens to be an established trainer by that point getting entangled in some other plot, sure, skip ahead to where that happens, but there doesn't need to be something that could sensibly be skipped ahead to at all in order for the fic to be potentially enjoyable, and even if there is, it doesn't mean everything that happens before that point is extraneous fluff that might as well be cut out.

Well, of course it's not good advice in every instance. The thing is that in many 'fics not a lot really goes on until the trainer does get entangled in some sideplot. A lot of people treat the lab starting scene as a kind of obligatory "introduce character and rival, get pokémon and pokédex, possibly battle, and leave." I recognize that this is critique of the way that people tend to write these sorts of scenes, not so much the scenes themselves, but I really don't think that there's a reason they need to be a defining characteristic of journey 'fics. If you need to show how a character has developed from the way they were before they began training or right at the beginning, then sure, you need to start there. But much of the time trainers don't show a great deal of development right away; there would be little functional difference between starting with the lab and starting at some point a little later. Further, it's not as though a character can't develop from some level significantly after they began their journey. It's quite possible for established-character stories to be highly character-driven.

I guess I don't really see the "potentially interesting experiences" thing, either. Again I'd argue that nothing terribly interesting tends to happen in the first couple-three chapters of your common trainer fanfic, and further that if I chose to write a story about myself beginning when I was fifteen, I would be ignoring something like 75% of the interesting experiences in my life--but if the point of the story was to show how I grew in my later high school years, it would be pointless to start earlier just so that I could talk about them. (And it's not as though I couldn't present them, either, if they were important--just because they don't happen "onscreen" doesn't mean that they can't appear in and have important bearing upon the story.)

Lab scenes aren't bad, in and of themselves, and there are some stories that can use them effectively or do in fact need them. However, I think the impression that they are an important part of any journey 'fic (or even an important part of the stereotypical journey 'fic, rather than merely a common feature) is mistaken.

I've read those but I also agree with Dragonfree above. Honestly, while you can skip forward in time to have a different beginning, don't you miss a lot by skipping the beginning? I wouldn't read a story like that, to be honest with you.

Not necessarily. And who says that the beginning of a person's pokémon journey/their first pokémon from the lab ought to be the beginning? What about the day when they realized that they had always wanted to be a pokémon trainer, or the day that they suddenly started to recognize their pokémon as more than just cool pets or fighting machines? The games and anime start with the protag getting his/her first pokémon, so it's natural that people tend to gravitate towards that as the point where you start off; that doesn't mean that it's the best for every story, or even most. See above on the "missing out on stuff" thing.

Sorry if you wouldn't be interested in a trainer 'fic that starts differently, but to imply that you can't do it in another way, as you did in your original post, is ludicrous.

 

[Dragonfree]

Well, I was never trying to say that a lot of fics wouldn't be better off without the beginning or that fics that begin later on the journey can't be good as character-based stories too. I was objecting to the generalization, the idea that starting a journey fic at the beginning of the trainer's journey is an uninteresting cliché that needs to be purged from the world, which Unoriginality has an irritating tendency to imply when it talks about beginnings. :/

I'd argue the part where the trainer gets their first Pokémon is a fairly natural starting point for a journey fic, since it's the start of the trainer's independence and thus where their life actually changes, kicking off their development. There is a ton of interesting stuff to explore where a trainer is just starting out - the difficulties of being alone all of a sudden, needing to camp out, coming to terms with losing, the initial establishment of trust between trainer and Pokémon... Obviously that doesn't mean most trainer fics do anything with that potential, but that's only all the more reason to get the message out that it's there.

Of course, again, that doesn't mean starting later won't be better for other stories, but all I'm trying to say is starting with obtaining a Pokémon really is an appropriate, natural start for the general journey fic concept, not just because that's how the games and anime happen to start.

 

[Jason-Kun]

And the problem with calling the plot cliche is because there's really no other way to go about a journey fic. Each character has to wake up, get ready and then get their pokemon. If there's another way to start a journey fic other than that as the base, then someone please tell me because I don't see it happening. No matter which was you do it, that is going to be the basis whether anything else happens or not.

They could already have a starter at the beginning of the fic or the fic could start after they had already began their journey. Getting a starter doesn't have to be the starting point of journey fics.

The thing a lot of people, both authors and reviewers, don't seem to realize is that journey fics, assuming no other main plot comes along to hijack it, are essentially supposed to be character-based stories. The basic journey fic plot is there as a framework around the story of the main character's adventures as a trainer, as an independent person far away from his parents learning to deal with the world. These plain journey fics are not about what they're actually out there in the world for; it's about their experiences, troubles, pains and dangers during that time, how they deal with them and how they grow as people while exploring the world they live in. When authors forget this, it leads to a story that's a simple rehash of the games or anime, with flat placeholder characters taking the world for granted and collecting the badges as if we're automatically supposed to care. When reviewers forget this, it leads to dismissing fascinating, well-written stories out of pure prejudice about the genre

This right here is something I agree with. If you don't care about the character, of course you won't care about their goals which'll make the story boring. The characters make the journey fic, not the journey itself.

 

[Praxiteles]

Given the history of reasonably well-written journey-fics, it's about time someone raised this point for good.

My theory: journey-fics are the first and the basic type of pokémon fanfiction plot. A new fanfiction writer (newly risen from four generations of games about ten-year-olds eventually getting to a lab where they get their first pokémon and then leaving or a formulaic journey through eight cities and badges, not to mention the animé) with no real experience or insight into the fanfiction question will probably hit upon this kind of plot first. Write out most of the major events of the beginning. Realize there are other considerations and other storylines out there, and get bored and give up with this one. Despite being a little unceremonious, this is probably how the vast majority of fanfiction writers start out (not excepting the ones who become very good eventually). Hence the 90% of journeyfics that are crap, and furthermore the bad reputation for the journey-fic that has come up after years of this.

Negrek got to the point I was about to say: the fact that getting the starter is the beginning of the active part of a trainer's life doesn't mean the psychological beginning has to be disregarded; if we are talking about the beginning of the development of a character through training, should the emergence of the idea in the character's mind be really disdained? (That could, to an extent, define what training is to the character pretty decisively.) Because the canon focusses on the actual training itself, it started when the training began, but we're concerned with our characters.

 

[Bay]

Over the debate of whether to start the journey fic at the way of the beginning or where the exciting part begins, it depends. I know a lot of literature that is basically a story of a person's journey through life (for instance, Great Expectations), so I don't mind if the story will go to that route if that's going to be one of the main themes of the story. However, if the journey fic is going to be more action and fast paced orientated, then perhaps it's better if the story starts out where the conflict is happening.

As for me, I love journeyfics a lot because it's fun reading a trainer's journey from beginning to end and I'm lucky to read through the ones that are finished. I have been planning a journeyfic for a while now (since writing a bit of NE, actually), but I just haven't found the time nor motivation to write one at this moment, sadly. I'm already exhausted from juggling real life, university, work, and NE for the last couple of years. XD

 

[Akiyama]

I'll just tell my opinion on this:

It's been done many, many times to write a journey fic. FF.net is flooded with them and honestly I've given up on finding that good journey fic. Doesn't stop at mainstream, I've seen people going for the PMD related stuff too. Then those get plain if they start with the beach scene or the Tiny Woods scene. Then they go on with the same stuff I've played, I know what's going to happen anyway so stop boring me.

It's unlikely I will write a journey fic, it's not my style anyway. Besides, you as a writer may not tell how a reader may read, it doesn't work. You read as the reader, and if it's boring, then it is boring.

Sure you can write whatever and post it without care and for fun; but if you're aimming to actually entertain readers, things get a little more serious.

 

[Griff4815]

If I were to estimate the amount of journey fics there are at SPPf, I'd probably estimate a good few hundred. 90% (probably more) won't make it past the first five chapters. This number will dwindle; less then half will reach the "midway" point of their story. From this number, most people will take the route of what seems to be what I like to call the topical "chosen one" plot twist, breaking away from what this reviewer would consider a "basic journey fic." If the writer chooses--no pun intended--not to go the "chosen one" genre, then there is some sort of twist or plot point that deviates away from what many a reviewer would call a regular journey 'fic.

Hooray! I guess my fic is one of the 0.2% of fics that defies this, though I guess there's still side plots going on.

I agree with most of what Breezy and Dragonfree said. To back up Dragonfree's point, if it's the case that the trainer first meets their pokemon in a lab, then that point is significant to the characters since it's always important when two characters meet due to first impressions and dynamics, and setting up for development between the relationship between the two.

I personally enjoyed playing around with and subverting various standards of journey fics. It helped my fic to stand out from "the generic journey fic", hopefully In my journey fic, the character wakes up in his room, but in between leaving his house and getting to the lab are flashbacks with a good amount of action in them. So it's still possible to start from the beginning and still be entertaining.

And the very first version of my fic (which was dreadful) was all about the journey, with not-quite-flat characters, but definately not developed. Reading it now, it was really dry. The reason the new version of that same fic (called "Never in the Wrong Time or Wrong Place) got as far as it did (and it's still going) is because of the characters. It's a character-driven fic. The gym battles are an excuse for action, but the real intrigue is with how the characters react to situations and each other in these circumstances. That said, there still it a side plot which doesn't subtract from the gym-travelling concept.

 

[nobodys_angel]

Hi ...mind if a little lurker gives her two cents worth?

To back up Dragonfree's point, if it's the case that the trainer first meets their pokemon in a lab, then that point is significant to the characters since it's always important when two characters meet due to first impressions and dynamics, and setting up for development between the relationship between the two.

I agree with that completely. It doesn't even have to be in a lab, but journey fics need to start with a "trainer-meets-first-Pokemon" scenario for the exact reasons outlined by Griff. Plus, if it's done right, I love reading any scene that features Professor Elm. Best Professor of them all

I've been looking around these forums for ages, and I think the main issue a lot of reviewers and readers seem to have is that the main character often becomes "Mary-Sue" or "Gary-Stu"-esque. Somebody said that journey fics are character-centric and that's completely true, so if a character isn't drawn properly then the story flops. But it seems that if any major character has the spotlight on them for even a little while, they are labelled as a "Mary-Sue".

Personally, I can't begin to really comphrend this sort of a label. I looked up Mary-Sue on Wikipedia (shameful that I had to do that, but still...) and it seems that any character with a special destiny, or any character that has a plot revolving around them can be labelled as a Mary-Sue or male equivalent. Especially when it comes to journey fics, a main character NEEDS a special destiny or a special plot line, otherwise the story goes nowhere.

I'm not sure what the real point of the above paragraph was, I think I just wanted to rant about Mary-Sues. I think it was relevant :S

I think another reason journey fics have a bad rep is because beginner writers (and I include myself here) use them to develop writing skills, and a lot of the time, they don't know where they're headed. If you get a well thought-out story by a really good writer, journey fics are brilliant and you don't even notice the epic scale of them. Destiny Journey: Healing of Hearts is one of my favourites, even though it was never finished. As journey fics progress, there are little unique plot twists and character quirks that can deviate from the generic "trainer gets badges" story. I'm writing my own journey story at the moment (trying to get it semi-decent before posting it) and I can now appreciate how much work goes into a journey fic. If you can pull them off, they usually become unique

So that's it, really. I know I've got a small post count compared to some of you guys, but through my lurking I've discovered that journey fics have a really bad reputation for reasons which can generally be unfounded. I just wanted to voice my agreement

 

[Dragonfree]

Especially when it comes to journey fics, a main character NEEDS a special destiny or a special plot line, otherwise the story goes nowhere.

No, not really. Of course every character's story is unique, but it is silly to think that people can't be interesting without being destined for something special. If you love the character and root for them, it doesn't matter if they're unremarkable on a worldwide scale - their life still has excitement and tension and humour and intrigue. Journey fics are a great opportunity to explore that.

On the flip side, characters who are somehow remarkable are not automatically Mary-Sues. What the Mary-Sue concept is truly about is whether they are written realistically as people who happen to be special or if the world is made to revolve artificially around them to give them convenient luck at every turn and pile special powers and abilities onto them because that's so cool.

 

[Negrek]

I was objecting to the generalization, the idea that starting a journey fic at the beginning of the trainer's journey is an uninteresting cliché that needs to be purged from the world, which Unoriginality has an irritating tendency to imply when it talks about beginnings.

Nah, I wouldn't say that it's something that needs to be totally done away with or that it's necessarily cliché. (I would say that beginnings that follow the basic structure of "wake up -> get dressed -> go to lab for starter -> get starter, meet rival(s)/companion(s)/etc") is pretty cliché, though. Not a damning fact, but they are pretty done to death.) But I don't think that starting off with the "getting a starter scene" should be a part of the definition of a journeyfic, either. As you say, beginning at that point isn't a bad way to start the story, necessarily, and in plenty of cases it makes sense, but some people in this thread seem adamant that it is the One True Place to begin writing.

To back up Dragonfree's point, if it's the case that the trainer first meets their pokemon in a lab, then that point is significant to the characters since it's always important when two characters meet due to first impressions and dynamics, and setting up for development between the relationship between the two.

No. If that were the case, then there could never be a meaningful story written that centers on two or more characters who already know each other at its outset--which is obviously untrue. In some cases, yes, the first meeting of two characters is extremely important to their relationship and how they develop over the course of the story; in other cases, it's really not--it all depends on the dynamics of the relationship and the people in question. I'm sure you have good friends where you can remember how you first met, but perhaps you have some where you can't even remember how you became friends in the first place (I certainly do). And even if you do want to address how characters came to know each other, there may not be call to devote a chapter to showing that scene in its entirely, rather than touching on it later in the story, and there is absolutely no reason why it should *have* to take place in a lab--after all, the only time in (any of the canons I'm aware of) where the trainer actually goes to the lab to get their first pokémon are R/B/Y, G/S/C, and the anime.

In general, saying that a particular kind of story always has to do something in a particular way to be valid is going to come back and bite you; literature rarely deals in absolutes.

 

[Griff4815]

No. If that were the case, then there could never be a meaningful story written that centers on two or more characters who already know each other at its outset--which is obviously untrue. In some cases, yes, the first meeting of two characters is extremely important to their relationship and how they develop over the course of the story; in other cases, it's really not--it all depends on the dynamics of the relationship and the people in question. I'm sure you have good friends where you can remember how you first met, but perhaps you have some where you can't even remember how you became friends in the first place (I certainly do). And even if you do want to address how characters came to know each other, there may not be call to devote a chapter to showing that scene in its entirely, rather than touching on it later in the story, and there is absolutely no reason why it should *have* to take place in a lab--after all, the only time in (any of the canons I'm aware of) where the trainer actually goes to the lab to get their first pokémon are R/B/Y, G/S/C, and the anime.

In general, saying that a particular kind of story always has to do something in a particular way to be valid is going to come back and bite you; literature rarely deals in absolutes.

I never said that I meant that for all stories- I was merely discrediting the point that "lab scenes" were worthless and could be done without. If one wants to skip ahead without devoting time to the first meeting of two characters, that's fine, but if someone wants to show that meeting in the beginning if it's important to them or to the character's relationship, then that should be fine too. I don't think that anybody said that it has to involve a lab- that just happens to be the norm when it comes to newbie journey fics.

 

[Negrek]

I was merely discrediting the point that "lab scenes" were worthless and could be done without.

Who was making this argument?

I don't think that anybody said that it has to involve a lab...

It's no longer an issue on the table, really, but see Mimori Kiryu's first post for that (although not a lab specifically, just "get up, get ready, get pokémon").

In any case, I was objecting primarily to your statement that it's "always important where two characters meet"; the stuff to do with lab scenes crept in as a result of previous discussion and probably shouldn't have been directed at you.