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A Restoration Confrontation! (Part 2) (737

Discussion in 'Pokémon Black & White - Rival Destinies' started by Serebii, Apr 26, 2012.

  1. Lorde

    Lorde Banned

    I forgot that I'm dealing with a Team Rocket fan; anything negative that anyone has to say about Team Rocket will simply fall on deaf ears. I honestly don't understand why anyone would waste time trying to justify the unjustifiable, but more power to those people I guess. I'd just like to point out that regardless of the little things that occurred, this episode was still a waste of time. If the writers really wanted to tie up a few loose ends, they could have easily crammed the events of this episode into the previous one instead of giving us a tedious two-parter. That would have saved them a lot of effort, and the fans a lot of time.
     
  2. Banana Knight Arthur

    Banana Knight Arthur NEGATIVE MINUS


    Saw the ep, in HD mind you, and I speak only a little Japanese, but I understand more than I can speak.


    That said, I have to concur, with what Adamant said.

    Generic plot, boring, harkens to the DP era's more boring eps.

    But it was nice to finally have the obligatory 2-3 fossil eps over and done with.

    Sad to see they squandered the chance to properly use the built-up tension and plot they first set in motion in the Archeos ep, almost 8-9 months ago....
     
  3. AgentPierce

    AgentPierce Mad science FTW!

    I forgot that I'm dealing with a Best Wishes hater; anything positive that anyone has to say about BW will simply fall on deaf ears.
     
  4. Mew2

    Mew2 Team Rocket's Enemy

    I think that the issue is that there are a group of intriguing episodes coming up and there was really nothing really great that stood out about this two parter. Nothing really happened and Team Rocket did not really have a larger plan than just steal Pokémon X. I think that if there was more to it, people would have had a different reaction. Many people don't think that a steal Pokémon X plot really deserves a two parter. I've only seen the pictures so I'll have to watch the episode before I can make a more informed decision, but the pictures made it only look okay, and a far cry from the usual quality of BW episodes, especially compared to what we know of the next three upcoming episodes.
     
  5. XXD17

    XXD17 Draco rex

    I don't know a bout you but "Attack of the Prehistoric Pokemon" is one of my personal favorite episodes...
     
  6. The Great Butler

    The Great Butler Hush, keep it down

    So I heard that people are looking forward to my always-entertaining flamethrower of opinions. Well, guess what?

    I liked these episodes! Unlike the sheer disappointment that was the Kami Trio arc, this one actually gave Team Rocket plenty to do, and they were actually active in trying to accomplish their goal this time instead of sitting by and doing nothing. It really reminded me of what they originally seemed to be when they were first introduced, before they were allowed to regress into the pathetic jokes they were for so long. These episodes also stepped up Dr. Zager as one of this series's major antagonists, and I think he really shined.

    AgentPierce, as often as we disagree, you're absolutely right this time. I would dare to take your comparison to Hunter J and Team Galactic a step further - anyone remember the Iron Island arc? Aside from a couple of game characters showing up and a pretty exciting climax, not much at all really happened to set it apart from previous episodes, especially the massive raid the entire team minus Charon staged on Celestic Town. Yet, it was received pretty well. I'll concede that Fujio and Stella weren't the most exciting COTDs and that the last battle could have taken place on the other side of the time portal, but really, this was Team Rocket's Iron Island arc. So... what gives?

    This is not going to be the last we hear of this, I think. If the Dream Energy could come back once, I don't think there's any reason why it and the Chargestones couldn't be used for something else, especially with Dragonspiral Tower coming up. Zager still has the Dream Energy, the Chargestones and all the data from this operation, so there is absolutely no reason we shouldn't hear about this again.
     
  7. AgentPierce

    AgentPierce Mad science FTW!

    Exactly. I mean, why should Team Rocket do something beyond "catch Pokemon X" when they are primarily Pokemon theives? The only time they did different kind of work was when they were in black and in direct correspondence with Giovanni for a certain mission (the Meteonite one.) When they're back in white, it's back to Pokemon stealing. The key is how they go about it, and in this case, they went about it really well: ruthless, formidable, and determined, with nothing pathetic about their plan or even their defeat.

    Thank you. It's always nice to agree on something.

    I'd forgotten about Iron Island, but you're right. In the grand scheme of the Galactic arc, those two episodes were filler. There was no build-up for it and Team Galactic's grand scheme wasn't pushed any further; the whole thing ended in failure. Yet those episodes were well recieved, whereas these similar ones aren't. Why?

    Again, I can't help but suspect a bias against Team Rocket being the villains. Some may just be so sick of their failures over the years that they hate seeing them do evil and fail even when they're being actual effective villains in doing so. Some may think it's OOC for Team Rocket to be so ruthless (though, going by the games, it's OOC for Cyrus and Mars to do what they did at Iron Island). And, of course, some actually preferred them as the run-into-the-ground joke they were for a long time before BW and think them being serious is "boring".

    And once more I must also point out: Ash meets Dr. Zager here. And the scene was played pretty dramatically too, with Zager getting a pan-up with an ominous sound chord struck, and Jessie giving Ash a formal introduction to him, with Ash repeating the name afterward ("Dr. Zager?") So personally, I doubt this is going to be the only time that Ash and co. personally see Dr. Zager, meaning that this fact alone bears these episodes some importance.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2012
  8. Bisharp

    Bisharp Well-Known Member

    Cyrus realized his 'dream', although his fate is unknown in the anime.

    Team Rocket managed to steal these crystals/stones in the Joltik episode, so actually they won for once. This time i wish they would manage take atleast one Carracosta for themselves.

    If Team Plasma is not going to appear then we need TR to be waaaay more competent than even now they are in BW.

    If Plasma would appear, then i don't think they would fail as much as TR does now, always flying off with empty hands.
     
  9. Spider-Phoenix

    Spider-Phoenix Go, Go Power Rangers

    I was just joking because Tirtouga evolved all of sudden.

    Anyway, I agree with that theory. That's why it didn't bother me that much.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2012
  10. AgentPierce

    AgentPierce Mad science FTW!

    No. No, he didn't realize his dream, unless you count his sudden change in motive and character.

    And his fate is unknown? He erased himself from existance; he's good as dead.

    They got away with stealing things other times other times too (dream energy, research data, the Meteonite shard from the museum, etc.)

    They don't always fly off with empty hands like you say they do.
     
  11. Haunter ゴースト

    Haunter ゴースト Well-Known Member

    Well judging from the huge argument in the thread, a lot of people hated this two parter and wasn't satisfied.

    Personally I enjoyed it, i think it worked well and tied up the loose ends of BW039 and BW064. Not only that but i imagine this won't be the last we here of the past world, Genosect fits into that place almost too perfectly for the idea to be dropped here. Following this, the whole TR plan could have been to obtain information on how to harness the time travel and ultimately find the legendary Genosect. my wishful thinking is showing again

    Albeit this isn't really likely, but even so the two parter was enjoyable. The battle wasn't amazing, and the bond betwen Fujio and Turtouga wasn't very emotional to me, but besides that I have no complaint. The problem is people hyped themselves too much for it, what ever happened to a simple and well thought out plan? That's basically what the writers did, they developed the episodes over a period of time instead and extended the idea into two episodes.
    I highly doubt this could have all been done in one episode without being a complete mess and rushed.

    Hopefully this isn't the end of TR's dream energy/fossil plan. Im hoping they tell Giovanni about what they have done/learnt and something serious takes place from there.
     
  12. pokefandt

    pokefandt Well-Known Member

    Their track record is still pretty piss poor though, because you literally to balance those maybe half a dozen successes with the hundreds of times they've been unsuccessful in the past. But if you just include Unova, they are better than they have ever been. I would like to chalk that up to someone on the writing staff finally knowing how to write these guys a bit better.
     
  13. Lorde

    Lorde Banned

    Oh please. I may not love the BW saga, but that doesn't mean that I'm a hater. You on the other hand, practically worship Team Rocket, and you refuse to listen to reason. Their part in these episodes was redundant whether you like it or not. And like many people have told you before, they aren't working towards some great scheme; they're just doing odd jobs for the sake of having something to do. They've done nothing productive whatsoever, and it's about time you realized it.
     
  14. Haunter ゴースト

    Haunter ゴースト Well-Known Member

    Not true.

    BW006, 39 and 64 lead up to this with TR being the main people to make it happen, they were finishing the job.

    Im not agreeing, or disagreeing but please, quit acting like you know this for sure.

    We're not at the end of the BW saga yet and anything could happen in the future involving the events which happened in these episodes.
     
  15. Lorde

    Lorde Banned

    So you're defending a plan that took more than a year [in real time] to come to fruition, even though the end result was a complete disaster (as expected)? I didn't think it was possible, but those how are defending TR's "plan" are even more stubborn than those who defend Cilan.

    Please don't give me that "don't state your opinions as fact" crap. I'm merely pointing out that obvious: Team Rocket hasn't done anything worth mentioning so far. Even their plot to travel back in time, which again, took forever to come to fruition, ended horribly. So even if they are planning something bigger, it's going to go the same way as their other plans. Must I remind everyone of how many of their schemes have failed in the past? It must be more than 500 so far. Anyone could connect the dots and realize that no good will come from TR.
     
  16. Grey Wind

    Grey Wind Only rescues maidens

    Oh my god Agent Pierce, why do you care? It's a thread for posting opinions and some people didn't like the episode. Get over it. I don't see you calling people out on things non-TR related.

    Literally nothing happend in these episodes. It was a generic, boring plot that could easily have fit into one episode. The climax of the episode was the same Pikachu vs Team Rocket that we've been seeing for the last fifteen years. And please don't give me that "Ash met Zager OMG" bull, that means nothing. Their interactions were nothing exceptional.

    Agreed, that was one of my main problems. If they were going to bother a building up the plot, I think they should have had something better at the culmination of it.
     
  17. Haunter ゴースト

    Haunter ゴースト Well-Known Member

    Defendings got nothing to do with it. Im just stating that you saying TR was redundant for these episodes isn't true. These episodes were focused on the things they did back in BW039 and 64. A better word would be 'useless' for what you're trying to say.

    What im saying is true. You don't know whether or not the events of these episodes will effect later episodes in the future. Saying they haven't done anything good or worthwhile is completly opinion, some people enjoy their schemes.

    Im not saying everything they have done is good, but the fact is TR will always fail, it's the basic structure of the show so if your acting as if everytime they do fail is pointless then you'd may aswell just stop watching (looking at pictures whatever).

    BW has been giving TR more creative and expanded schemes this saga, that's the only difference, your just hyping yourself up to much expecting them to win.

    Just because they do fail doesn't mean they are 'redundant', that's like saying 'Giovanni' 'Maxie' 'Archie' 'Cyrus' and 'Ghetis' are all redundant in the games since they failed to win too.

    Back to whether or not future episodes may be effected by this, i'd love to see Genosect incorporated into this 'time hole' thing, or something mentioning the events of this in a future scheme, that would be interesting and worthwhile to me.
     
  18. AgentPierce

    AgentPierce Mad science FTW!

    Find me someone who is actually reasonable, and then I might listen.

    Except that they HAVE done productive things. ALOT of them. Yes, they end in failure. That's freaking expected in this show.

    Just because you do something productive that ultimately fails doesn't mean you never did it at all.

    Yes, you're absolutely right. And again I ask: SO WHAT? As long as their plans are done in an effective, competant, exciting way, that's all I'm asking for.

    Can't handle a debate? Don't get involved. Simple as that.

    So, it was just a blank screen for around 20 minutes on both occasions? Because that's what "nothing happens" means if you're saying it "literally".

    Because you know exactly what Zager is going to do in the future of this show, right? You know Ash's discovery of his existence will never be followed up on, is that it?

    EXACTLY. In BW, Team Rocket have been retooled to be competant and actually effective in evildoing. This NEVER meant they were going to frequently win. They'll get small victories when building to something larger (ala Team Galactic), or they may come deadly-close to success in their grand plans, but they were NEVER going to start succeeding in the long run. People who thought that Team Rocket would start winning victories left and right just because they've become real villains were deluding themselves. It's a kid's show; the heroes will always win the day. It doesn't mean Team Rocket is useless or unproductive....it just means that they're villains on a kid's show, fated to lose, like Megatron or Shredder.

    In fact, I'd argue they were useless and unproductive for a long time PRIOR to BW because they weren't even villains, just gag characters, and their plans and failures were treated as one big worn-out joke. Even though they always lose in BW, they now pose an actual test to the heroes' skills by being competant, which makes them far from pointless.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2012
  19. Spider-Phoenix

    Spider-Phoenix Go, Go Power Rangers

    The most interesting thing is that they are doing that with just ONE unevolved pokemon each (Jessie with Woobat and James with Yamask). So far, BW!TR has been pretty interesting to me.
     
  20. Grey Wind

    Grey Wind Only rescues maidens

    It's not that I can't handle the debate, it's that you're getting your panties in a knot over nothing. People have opinions. There is no need to get so hot and bothered just because some people found an episode boring. Get over it.

    Oh you know what I mean, stop grasping at straws. I found the episode boring because it was uninteresting and there was nothing exciting about it to me. Why do you have such an unbelievable problem with that?

    Oh please. It's just common sense. Even if Ash meeting Zager (I don't see why you're making him out to be some massively influential character) is brought up again, that's hardly enough to justify a two-parter.

    It was a boring "TR steals a Pokemon" episode, and if you can't deal with an opinion, don't read the threads.
     

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