A Sandshrew's Storm! An Ice Hole Double Battle!! (1023)

[Akkipeddi]

It is entirely possible that the Ice Stone might be used on something else.

Only two Pokémon evolve using the Ice Stone, being Vulpix and Sandshrew. Clearly if the Ice Stone has to ever be used again, it would be for Snowy to potentially evolve.

 

[Ignition]

I forgot people have double standards

Well of course something like the Team Flare Arc is going to be more development than finding Z-Crystals? One is a game mechanic and the other is essentially one of the biggest plots of the games. Sara was only there to help Snowy learn a new move. You can want something “different” if you want but that doesn’t take away from the fact how Lillie got her Z-Crystal made sense from a game perspective. Also are we going to ignore how she got that as a reward for helping the Sandshrew? The same girl who was too scared touch Pikachu stood up to a Pseudo. How isn’t that character progression again?

Wow you're really misreading the message. I said plots like Team Flare have a more impressive execution than in game. Where did I say it had "more development"? You were confused about why people don't like the game approach: they were looking for a better way than just finding it in a cave. Sara could've been a recurring motivation for Lillie. Notice how I said "could've". It's not like a character could have multiple uses. No, that's unheard of. Who's ignoring it? People are clearly dissatisfied with it. No one said she had no character progression.

 

[Henry's Journey]

I like the Sun & Moon series a lot but I have noticed almost everytime when someone criticizes SM some users bring up XY/XY&Z series and start to make comparisons, why is that?

 

[Twilight-Kun]

I like the Sun & Moon series a lot but I have noticed almost everytime when someone criticizes SM some users bring up XY/XY&Z series and start to make comparisons, why is that?

Because everyone thinks a certain series is the best and feels the need to beat people over the head with an opinion rather than telling people "If you're not a fan of what's happening, give this a try" and leave it at that, letting them form their own opinion which may or may not agree with others'

Every pokémon series has good episodes, bad episodes, forgettable episodes and one or two episodes or characters, or events that manage to retroactively ruin the rest of the series (Hi, Cameron, Alain!) even when people were singing its praises before

You're better off forming your own original opinion rather than taking anything else at face value

 

[Satomine Night]

I didn't expect Lillie to catch Alolan Sandshrew, but I'm still slightly disappointed she didn't. It would have been an interesting addition to her team (especially when paired in battle with Shiron as a support Pokémon), and it would have put her further on the path toward becoming an Ice type specialist. On the other hand, her acquiring not only an Icium Z but also an Ice Stone more than made up for the lack of a capture, IMHO. Those were definitely very pleasant surprises.

IMHO, this episode showed off two of Lillie's greatest strengths—her resourcefulness and her knowledge. Even though she is an inexperienced Trainer, she was still able to come up with a good strategy to defeat Tyranitar, using Shiron's support and defensive abilities and Sandshrew's offensive abilities.

Speaking of that Tyranitar, that battle was really ridiculous. I get Aurora Veil helping Vulpix and Sandshrew defensively, but how on earth did a couple of measly attacks from Sandshrew send Tyranitar tumbling, and cause it to run away.

Pay attention to how the Sandshrew battled Tyranitar before Lillie stepped in to help them. Their strategy was to just literally throw themselves at Tyranitar with hopes of doing damage—which is pretty much no strategy at all. Lillie came up with an actual strategy, using Shiron as a support Pokémon and defense and the leader Sandshrew as the chief offense. It was because of her strategy that Sandshrew was able to defeat Tyranitar.

Lillie getting an Ice Stone was kind of expected, but that Icium Z was super undeserved. (People will probably bring Jessie up, and yes, I had mentioned that the way Jessie got her Mimikium Z was also stupid). Equally expecting Lillie's Z Ring to happen in the most convenient of ways possible.

I strongly disagree. Alolan Sandslash gave Lillie the Icium Z out of gratitude for helping it and the Sandshrew defeat the Tyranitar. Without Lillie and her strategy, the Sandshrew never would have defeated Tyranitar—that much was pretty evident. Not every Z-Crystal has to be rewarded through a Trial or Grand Trial. Lillie certainly did deserve that Icium Z.

I see people claiming that since Lillie got a second Ice Stone that Snowy is sure to evolve. Ash held onto that Thunderstone for AGES and Pikachu still never evolved. I think it's very telling that Snowy refused the chance at evolution. It copied Pikachu's choice and its obvious that the writers are treating it like they did Togepi, Piplup and Axew. No intention to evolve it until maybe a cameo appearance later down the road (in Togepi's case).

Lillie made a comment about it being too early for Shiron to evolve. That could be considered foreshadowing that Shiron will eventually evolve. Otherwise, why would the writers go through the trouble of giving Lillie an Ice Stone, especially since she didn't catch Alolan Sandshrew?

 

[TheWanderingMist]

I like the Sun & Moon series a lot but I have noticed almost everytime when someone criticizes SM some users bring up XY/XY&Z series and start to make comparisons, why is that?

It's the most recent series, so it's natural to make comparisons. It's just always going to happen. SM is also entirely different in story structure from XY, and since XY tends to be hailed as "The greatest region ever!" (outside of this site at least, here DP reigns for terrible reasons), criticism (even valid criticism), comes off as very harsh. Heck, I love XY and I still think the praise needs to be toned down. SM gets a lot of "They changed it, so it sucks" 'criticism'. XY showed how formulaic the series had gotten, so SM was a chance at something new and fresh. To put it more simply, the people who think XY is the best thing to happen to Pokémon tend to hate SM because Ash isn't a big bad*** hero who always swoops in to save the day. In essence, they aren't really critics of SM, but haters. They don't give it a fair shot, or just ignore it if it isn't their cup of tea, they have to actively hate on it and desperately try to convince others to hate it so they feel justified in their stance. Because if people give a balanced view of SM, that would mean there are good parts, and most of the people criticizing SM don't want to admit there are good parts (or at least, they won't admit there are good parts that don't involve Ash).

 

[Leonhart]

I'm glad that Lilie didn't capture the Alolan Sand, because she can barely make progress with Shiron as things stand, although that might change now that she has an Ice Stone and Icium Z.

 

[satopi]

There were so many highlights in this episode, but I think everyone already said it. I'm happy that it focused on the Lillie/Mallow/Soph group for the most part and that Mallow and Sophocles did help somewhat. It was incredible of the writers to insert the past battle between Olivia and Ash as a battling reference to learn from.

I really liked that Shiron didn't evolve here and showing that she and Lillie have a long way to go.

 

[lolipiece]

OK, I'm awake, I'm awake.

The episode was pretty good! I wasn't expecting the Sandshrew to be caught, and my expectation died immediately after seeing it was bigger than the others.

That being said, I was slightly expecting Lillie to get an Icium Z, but a second Ice Stone caught me completely by surprise. I don't know if Snowy will evolve, but I'm glad to see they didn't 100% shut down the possibility.

Now let's home we don't have to wait a full month to see her get to use it.

Since Ash won't be hogging the spotlight with trials for the time being, they can hopefully get her the Z-Ring soon.

Lillie made a comment about it being too early for Shiron to evolve. That could be considered foreshadowing that Shiron will eventually evolve. Otherwise, why would the writers go through the trouble of giving Lillie an Ice Stone, especially since she didn't catch Alolan Sandshrew?

I'm guessing it'll be a last episode evolution, ala May's Blaziken or Brock's Chansey.

 

[DatsRight]

I like the Sun & Moon series a lot but I have noticed almost everytime when someone criticizes SM some users bring up XY/XY&Z series and start to make comparisons, why is that?

XY was the most recent series so is bound to get comparisons the most with SM heading straight off it.

 

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

I don't mind Lillie not catching the Sandshrew at all. In the earlier portions of Sun and Moon her primary goal was always to learn to interact with more pokémon and overcome her fears of touching them. She's conquered those fears now. Then she also conquered her mother's opinion of her, going from a little baby to a girl capable enough to join the Ultra Guardians in her mother's eyes. In a way it's time for a new goal for her, but this episode also tells us she doesn't really know yet where she wants to go next, and that goal doesn't necessarily have to be "Catch more pokémon" or "Catch more Ice types". She isn't like Ash in that she wants to become the best at pokémon battling or wants to catch a lot of pokémon. I think she's happy with her Vulpix now and doesn't really feel the need to catch more.

She could become an Ice type specialist, but I don't think it'd fit her well. I can also see her catching other pokémon like Espeon, Cutiefly, or Comfey (have we ever had a Psychic type pokémon in the main cast? I can't think of any to be honest). Apart from Vulpix being an Ice type, her doing the Ice type Z-pose in the first ending, and her now obtaining the Icium Z there hasn't really been any indication of her becoming an Ice type specialist. It doesn't seem to fit well in her character to focus only on a single type of pokémon. In some ways she's more like Ash in that she wants to get along with all sorts of pokémon.

So, where does she go from here? I think the next step in her development will probably be to obtain a Z-Ring and work on Subzero Slammer with her Vulpix. I'd prefer it if she had to actively seek out a Z-Ring rather than just happening to stumble upon one like Lana did, it gives her more agency in the story. Maybe she can go to Hala and request one from him.

 

[ShadowForce720]

I don't mind Lillie not catching the Sandshrew at all. In the earlier portions of Sun and Moon her primary goal was always to learn to interact with more pokémon and overcome her fears of touching them. She's conquered those fears now. Then she also conquered her mother's opinion of her, going from a little baby to a girl capable enough to join the Ultra Guardians in her mother's eyes. In a way it's time for a new goal for her, but this episode also tells us she doesn't really know yet where she wants to go next, and that goal doesn't necessarily have to be "Catch more pokémon" or "Catch more Ice types". She isn't like Ash in that she wants to become the best at pokémon battling or wants to catch a lot of pokémon. I think she's happy with her Vulpix now and doesn't really feel the need to catch more.

She could become an Ice type specialist, but I don't think it'd fit her well. I can also see her catching other pokémon like Espeon, Cutiefly, or Comfey (have we ever had a Psychic type pokémon in the main cast? I can't think of any to be honest). Apart from Vulpix being an Ice type, her doing the Ice type Z-pose in the first opening, and her now obtaining the Icium Z there hasn't really been any indication of her becoming an Ice type specialist. It doesn't seem to fit well in her character to focus only on a single type of pokémon. In some ways she's more like Ash in that she wants to get along with all sorts of pokémon.

So, where does she go from here? I think the next step in her development will probably be to obtain a Z-Ring and work on Subzero Slammer with her Vulpix. I'd prefer it if she had to actively seek out a Z-Ring rather than just happening to stumble upon one like Lana did, it gives her more agency in the story. Maybe she can go to Hala and request one from him.

Just real quick in regards to your question about whether or not there have ever been any Psychic type pokemon on the main cast the answer is yes, we have had Psychic type pokemon on the main cast before namely Misty's Starmie, Jessie's Wobbuffet, Jessie's Woobat, James' Chimecho, James' Mime Jr. and James' Inkay. Also although it's not a actual Psychic type we did have a case where Ash's Noctowl new some Psychic type moves despite being a Normal/Flying type.

 

[FlygontheRavager]

It's the most recent series, so it's natural to make comparisons. It's just always going to happen. SM is also entirely different in story structure from XY, and since XY tends to be hailed as "The greatest region ever!" (outside of this site at least, here DP reigns for terrible reasons), criticism (even valid criticism), comes off as very harsh. Heck, I love XY and I still think the praise needs to be toned down. SM gets a lot of "They changed it, so it sucks" 'criticism'. XY showed how formulaic the series had gotten, so SM was a chance at something new and fresh. To put it more simply, the people who think XY is the best thing to happen to Pokémon tend to hate SM because Ash isn't a big bad*** hero who always swoops in to save the day. In essence, they aren't really critics of SM, but haters. They don't give it a fair shot, or just ignore it if it isn't their cup of tea, they have to actively hate on it and desperately try to convince others to hate it so they feel justified in their stance. Because if people give a balanced view of SM, that would mean there are good parts, and most of the people criticizing SM don't want to admit there are good parts (or at least, they won't admit there are good parts that don't involve Ash).

Agreed. It’s a good thing that this forum is relatively peaceful. The YouTube Pokémon anime community is in a pretty dark place right now.

 

[AznKei]

Agreed. It’s a good thing that this forum is relatively peaceful. The YouTube Pokémon anime community is in a pretty dark place right now.

Don't mention it. Some people on YT are doing nothing but harassing others for having different tastes, even involved by terminating some good Poketubers. But I watched the episodes there and I'm a Let's Player so...

 

[Pokegirl Fan~]

8/10 it was an enjoyable episode and I found nothing wrong with it, well none of that nonsense that was being spouted earlier anyways. The only thing that would have made this episode perfect is if Lillie caught Sandshrew.

 

[landipan]

I thought this was a great episode!I was kind of surprised at how willing Lillie was to evolve Shiron right then, I expected her to be a bit more reluctant. I think Shiron will be evolved down the road, maybe at the end of the series like some others have said.

 

[mehmeh1]

and thus, the jobber tyranitar streak continues

 

[MidnightMelody]

I'm shocked anyone expected something like a capture when this series has been trolling captures. I am pretty sure the girls at this point will only have one pokemon and I'm not mad since they relaly don't have any reason to have more. Especially this late in the game.

 

[Hanzer]

Pretty nice episode actually. Too bad she didn't get the sandshrew/sandslash tho. But now she can evolve her Vulpix "when it's ready", also the Z-crystal gives her more possibilities. I also found this screen to be very nice!

A team like this going around Alola would be pretty cool!

 

[Twilight-Kun]

I'm glad Shiron realized she was more marketable as a vulpix and refused to evolve

Lillie deciding for herself to step in and battle was nice

Not entirely sure how Hail managed to revive the Sandshrew, but hey, anime logic