A Super-Electromagnetic Hyper Class Battle! (1166)

[Ignition]

Maybe I should rephrase a bit. I would agree that by definition, yes it is an advantage.

However I would argue that it is in the same sense of someone using something like a team of fire types for a grass type gym. It is a huge advantage but it is still allowed because not only is it part of the trainer's strategy but there are always, always ways to circumvent it.

A good trainer like Volkner would likely consider any possibility and plan ways around it.

He even said, at least in the sub that I watched something along the lines of "There's the z-move, I have been waiting for this!".

He had a plan, which failed but regardless it was still a plan.

To say that Ash shouldn't have used his z-ring at all just to make the battle fair is crackpottery!

Yeah I’m all for people having issue with the use in terms of how it was handled but I don’t have issue with the fact that the Z Move was used here in the first place.

 

[Rune Knight]

One of the only cases where I would argue someone actually playing completely unfair was with Tobias.

That in my opinion was straight up not okay. It was like a teenager practically walking into a kindergarten class and stomping on every 5 year old and saying "Hahaha, I am stronger than all of you!".

This however, both Ash and Volkner were pushed to their limits. If Ash missed or made even one screw up, Volkner would have come out victorious. It was a close match that could have tipped very easily.

 

[masdog]

People complained when he didn't use it, and complain now that he did.

Volkner didn't even complain, in fact he looked forward to seeing it be utilized because he wanted to face Ash at his best. If anything he was probably grateful for it.

It's like the fans are choosing not to be happy by finding something to complain about...

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

And also, this is probably literally the first time I ever hear anyone complain about someone having what they deem to be an "unfair" advantage over another trainer, and of course it only happens to be the case when it involves Ash Ketchum.

Was Tapu Koko not defeated by Pikachu's Z-Move?

 

[TheWanderingMist]

Does it involve he who shall not be named (who just so happens to also own an Electivire)?

Not originally, strangely enough. 'Course, the original idea was an entirely different thing that was like set in the future.

 

[Morax]

Where was this during the Korrina battle when she utilized a mega-evolution?

It's okay when the rivals/villains do it because it serves as a testament to the MCs strength. Ash defeating a mega with a non-mega? That's something i can respect. But bringing guns to a pen fight is lame. As much as people love to hype up volkner, his electivire is nowhere close to the power of Pikashunium Z ( which is basically plot armor given form ). That Z move is so ridiculously overpowered that i doubt Arceus could take it and come out alive. Had he used it against Leon in their first battle Ash would be sitting on the throne now.

 

[UglyToast]

I watched the episode with subs finally, I must say I enjoyed it and Electivire getting knocked out by Z move makes sense to me, since using game logic means (as an example) your entire body outside of the corver aside from a small part of your feet, and you don't fall down because of that, would that make any sense in anime?

Aside from Gengar being fall guy, I liked this episode, 8/10 from me.

 

[Rune Knight]

It's okay when the rivals/villains do it because it serves as a testament to the MCs strength. Ash defeating a mega with a non-mega? That's something i can respect. But bringing guns to a pen fight is lame. As much as people love to hype up volkner, his electivire is nowhere close to the power of Pikashunium Z ( which is basically plot armor given form ). That Z move is so ridiculously overpowered that i doubt Arceus could take it and come out alive. Had he used it against Leon in their first battle Ash would be sitting on the throne now.

I mean it's sort of a bold assumption to say that Ash could have defeated Leon if he had used his z-move when Leon himself was already in possession of a gimmick that could not be taken down easily.

If Leon was aware that Ash had a z-ring he would have likely prepared and taken measures to face it. Plus, Charizard is a tank.

Pikashuniam Z is powerful but it is certainly not impossible to get around. Had Volkner knocked out Pikachu earlier, there would be no z-move to utilize.

Ash simply figured the best time to use and to save it. Had Electivire had a little bit more energy to spare he would have been able to survive it through motor drive and then overpower Pikachu who would likely be too tired to fight.

 

[Morax]

I mean it's sort of a bold assumption to say that Ash could have defeated Leon if he had used his z-move when Leon himself was already in possession of a gimmick that could not be taken down easily

Never underestimate the power of 'main characters' bro. Pikashunium Z is unbeatable because it represents the bond of Ash and Pikachu, leon bites the dust because he's facing the mascot of the franchise.

No matter what strategies volkner came up with, the universe will mold itself in a way that favors ash. So yeah it's impossible to get around.

 

[Rune Knight]

Never underestimate the power of 'main characters' bro. Pikashunium Z is unbeatable because it represents the bond of Ash and Pikachu, leon bites the dust because he's facing the mascot of the franchise.

But also the writing would definetely not allow it, at least not that early in the series.

Plus, I don't see them having Pikachu use a previous series gimmick to defeat the series' main adversary. I think that they are definetely going to go with gigantamax.

The z-ring was likely brought back as a fun callback for this one occasion. We might see it again but I doubt that it is going to be against Leon. Or if he does use it against Leon it probably won't be the finisher of their battle.

 

[Almighty Zard]

It's okay when the rivals/villains do it because it serves as a testament to the MCs strength. Ash defeating a mega with a non-mega? That's something I can respect.

Maybe you can, but others don't because I seem to recall quite a few people weren't exactly happy that Ash's Dragonite beat Korrina's Mega Lucario by itself when it had already sustained quite abit of damage already from her Mineshao. Testament to Ash's strength sure, but poor execution in their eyes.

Regardless as long as the person earned the right to use something then why shouldn't they use it when they want.

Besides Volkner was eager to see it as well so it was his choice as well.

The z-ring was likely brought back as a fun callback for this one occasion. We might see it again but I doubt that it is going to be against Leon. Or if he does use it against Leon it probably won't be the finisher of their battle.

Sad thing is, given that pikachu's not used to the concept, and can't fight like it normally does using it's Z-move would probably give it a better chance of taking Leon's Zard down in it's giagtanamaxed form.

 

[Morax]

But also the writing would definetely not allow it, at least not that early in the series.

Plus, I don't see them having Pikachu use a previous series gimmick to defeat the series' main adversary. I think that they are definetely going to go with gigantamax.

The z-ring was likely brought back as a fun callback for this one occasion. We might see it again but I doubt that it is going to be against Leon. Or if he does use it against Leon it probably won't be the finisher of their battle.

The point is that pikaZ can't lose no matter who the opponent is because it's the 'power of friendship'. In a well written anime, you could argue that volker/leon could guard against it but this ain't that kind of anime. Pokemon has always suffered from plot hax and asspulls and pikashunium z is the worst of them all.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

Ash vs Kukui had stakes on personal level,Torracat and Pikachu was having the most important battle of their life, Ash made a promise with Tapu Koko that he will show the power of his z move and win against him one day, which he finally fulfilled in Alola league.

If Ash lose to Volkner than what will happen? He will just battle another trainer to rank up again, Hyper class isn't like league where if Ash lose than it's over.

Though we can all agree that we didn't expect Koko bombing the match so it wasn't really a personal stake until then...though it's even weirder that Kukui never was in a position to use his mysterious sixth Pokemon.

Also, had Ash lost to Volkner, wouldn't he rank back into the previous class?

 

[janejane6178]

Finally a really good episode

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

BLOOD, AND THUNDER.

 

[NPT]

Screentime-hogging shillmon Lucario taking out two of Volkner's mons? Gengar biting the dust without accomplishing much? Electivire getting KO'd by a Z-move that's Electric-Type despite having an Electricity-absorbing ability? Geez, talk about a huge letdown.

These writers just keep getting worse at writing battles.

 

[Pokegirl Fan~]

Screentime-hogging shillmon Lucario taking out two of Volkner's mons? Gengar biting the dust after landing only a single hit on Luxray? Electivire getting KO'd by a Z-move that's Electric-Type despite having the Lightning Rod ability? Geezes, talk about a huge letdown.

The writers just keep getting worse at writing battles.

Lucario should have jobbed, Pikachu should have tied, and Gengar should have taken out 2 of Volkner's Pokemon.

 

[Soniman]

Screentime-hogging shillmon Lucario

Yeah you definitely haven't been watching JN

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

Yeah you definitely haven't been watching JN

At least, whenever it's in a battle with Ash leading it, it does take much of the glory from the others. That also goes when it's alone and still loses anyway.

 

[Evstike]

Ah yes, the Lucario with 0 wins should have jobbed.