A Three-Round Rival Battle! Aim Towards Tomorrow!! (878)

[U.N. Owen]

If Sawyer ends up going from a new trainer who was beaten easily to Ash, to an expert trainer able to beat Ash in the league, that would just be wrong. Even more wrong than Cameron in some ways. It might be interesting seeing how much Sawyer has grown, but it would also show that Ash has grown little to none. It would be detrimental to Ash's character (just like Cameron was). It would be better to see the two fight in the league, and have Ash barely beat him, but then lose in the following round to someone who is more worthy of beating him (like Alain).

Shota has a working brain. Working brain beats Camron any day. And come to think of it, he has seen Ash battle. For all we know, he could build some strategy just to counter him. But that would give the writers way too much credit.

 

[Lord Trollbias]

Shota has a working brain. Working brain beats Camron any day. And come to think of it, he has seen Ash battle. For all we know, he could build some strategy just to counter him. But that would give the writers way too much credit.

Clemont did that and still lost.

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

Clemont did that and still lost.

Clement had to lose.

Sawyer is a bit different.

 

[ShinyCharyZard]

Clemont did that and still lost.

Let's face it, Clemont's strategy was fairly poor to start with..

The only thing he did with Bunnelby was teach it Wild Charge and then pit it against Pikachu again, despite knowing that Pikachu has multiple regions worth of experience, when he'd only just captured Bunnelby before first meeting Ash (what was an electric type move gonna do anyway?). Then his great tactic for the Goodra with Rain Dance in its moveset was to paralyse it, when he'd witnessed it get revitalised by water before, therefore surely knowing that it's ability was highly likely to be Hydration.. and in reality, Electric Terrain did squat, even before the Rain Dance washed it away.

So it was hardly an award winning strategy. Heck, two of his Pokemon didn't even knock anything out..

 

[Water_Dragon trainer]

This was a decent episode. It was cool to see Steven again despite being just a flashback. I found TR to be pretty pointless in this one however.

 

[Janovy]

Clement had to lose.

Sawyer is a bit different.

While that is true, the writers could have easily thrown Clemont a bone and made it a tie and then had Clemont give Ash the badge since he was better.

But I agree in that Sawyer is a different case.

 

[Pikachu52]

If Sawyer ends up going from a new trainer who was beaten easily to Ash, to an expert trainer able to beat Ash in the league, that would just be wrong. Even more wrong than Cameron in some ways. It might be interesting seeing how much Sawyer has grown, but it would also show that Ash has grown little to none. It would be detrimental to Ash's character (just like Cameron was). It would be better to see the two fight in the league, and have Ash barely beat him, but then lose in the following round to someone who is more worthy of beating him (like Alain).

I don't see why Alain is more worthy of beating Ash than Sawyer or Cameron. I certainly don't see Cameron as wrong or as a detriment to Ash's character - If anything the bonding scenes between were a positive character development and it was nice to have a rival who was quirky and fun rather than being overtly serious or adult. Alain hasn't appeared in the main series only in three side stories and he became in league with Lysandre (Team Flare) during that time. Sawyer deserves to get a win at some point against Ash because he is clearly a decent person who cares about his Pokémon and wants to do well. That but that doesn't have to be at the league itself. There could be involved in another smaller competition prior to. I also don't see Cameron as detrimental to Ash's character as he was shown to be probably the better trainer.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

Sawyer should just be strong enough to give Ash an epic battle and still lose in the big one.

It would be really detrimental to Ash's character if Sawyer creamed his chances.

 

[Bguy7]

yeah i can totally see it now where the final battle is Mega Sceptile and Greninja with of course the mega evolution getting the win smh

Yeah, I didn't even consider Mega Evolution. That could be a good enough excuse.

This was a decent episode. It was cool to see Steven again despite being just a flashback. I found TR to be pretty pointless in this one however.

Without Team Rocket in that episode, it would have been half as long (not saying it was a good appearance, but they weren't technically pointless.

I don't see why Alain is more worthy of beating Ash than Sawyer or Cameron. Alain hasn't appeared in the main series only in three side stories and he became in league with Lysandre (Team Flare) during that time. Sawyer deserves to get a win at some point against Ash because he is clearly a decent person who cares about his Pokémon and wants to do well. That but that doesn't have to be at the league itself. There could be involved in another smaller competition prior to. I also don't see Cameron as detrimental to Ash's character as he was shown to be probably the better trainer.

I was mostly just throwing out a name, but I would still say that Alain is more worthy than Sawyer or Cameron. I already explained my stance on Sawyer, Ash having such a head start on him would just make it wrong if he were to beat Ash (unless he uses Mega Evolution). As for Cameron, he may have had the more powerful Pokemon, but he was not the better trainer. There is a difference. Cameron's very nature and questionable level of intelligence were traits that made him worse than Ash, so he didn't deserve to win. Alain on the other hand is shown to be a very powerful and competent trainer, and due to being the main character of his own sub-series actually has more characterization than most league rivals who beat Ash. Of course, Alain showing no interest in the League, and not appearing in the main series in-person do seem to contradict this theory, but that doesn't mean he's less worthy.

 

[Mr.Munchlax]

I'm not sure why, but for some reason the dubbed version of this episode sounded like it was a faster than what it should've been. It was just off by a few seconds, but it still felt like everyone was rushing to say their lines

 

[Pikachu52]

As for Cameron, he may have had the more powerful Pokemon, but he was not the better trainer. There is a difference. Cameron's very nature and questionable level of intelligence were traits that made him worse than Ash, so he didn't deserve to win.

Personally I think the difference between strong Pokémon and strong trainer is less stark than made out to be. Cameron had to capture, raise and earn the trust of those Pokémon in order to get them to evolve and to become powerful and in doing that he demonstrates himself to be a good trainer. His nature is energetic and scatterbrained that doesn't mean he has a questionable level of intelligence. I don't he was shown to be any less intelligent than Ash and when it came to Pokémon battles he knew what he was doing. The Marlon battle and the fact he won one Pokémon short in the league is testament to that. I think he did deserve to win.

I already explained my stance on Sawyer, Ash having such a head start on him would just make it wrong if he were to beat Ash (unless he uses Mega Evolution).

Yes I'm aware of that. My response would be that the anime has been inconsistent with head starts and experience levels between trainers throughout the anime. In BW Iris was much a much less experienced trainer than Ash but still managed to beat him in the final of the Club battle episode. Personally I don't believe she deserved to win that challenge or that Excadril was worthy of beating Pikachu but that is how it was written. I also think the head start argument can be questioned by the fact that Ash although he has more experience than Sawyer is still using Pokémon who he has only just caught during his time in Kalos and have much less experience (other than Pikachu). Ash may have more experience than Sawyer but Fletchlinder and Hawlutcha only have a little bit more experience than Grovyle or Bagon.

I actually do agree with you - If Ash lost to Sawyer in an official battle in the league it probably would be a bad relfection on him given Sawyer has just started as a trainer. But then you end up with a rival who continually looses to Ash simply because Ash is more exprienced. It's logical an appropriate but it means that Sawyer who is genuinely trying to be a good trainer and has a strong bond with his Pokémon is essentially blocked from achieveing his dreams and prevented from getting things he really wants because of Ash. Sawyer suffers from the same problem Ash did in BW - No matter how hard he tried it's just never enough. In short Ash is Sawyer's Cameron.

 

[U.N. Owen]

I actually do agree with you - If Ash lost to Sawyer in an official battle in the league it probably would be a bad relfection on him given Sawyer has just started as a trainer. But then you end up with a rival who continually looses to Ash simply because Ash is more exprienced. It's logical an appropriate but it means that Sawyer who is genuinely trying to be a good trainer and has a strong bond with his Pokémon is essentially blocked from achieveing his dreams and prevented from getting things he really wants because of Ash. Sawyer suffers from the same problem Ash did in BW - No matter how hard he tried it's just never enough. In short Ash is Sawyer's Cameron.

Considering Shota is from Hoenn, it's more like Ash is the Brendan to Shota's Wally.

In all seriousness, I do think Shota will lose the league to Ash because the dream killer doesn't arrive until the league begins or right before it. And BW Ash wasn't trying hard if he was trying at all. Nimbasa Gym is one example. Using a Pikachu against a something which has all four moves immune to or resisted by a steel and ground type is another.

 

[Pikachu52]

Considering Shota is from Hoenn, it's more like Ash is the Brendan to Shota's Wally.

In all seriousness, I do think Shota will lose the league to Ash because the dream killer doesn't arrive until the league begins or right before it. And BW Ash wasn't trying hard if he was trying at all. Nimbasa Gym is one example. Using a Pikachu against a something which has all four moves immune to or resisted by a steel and ground type is another.

That's true. I don't think Sawyer has a realistic chance of beating Ash. It still kinda sad for Sawyer and his Pokémon though because it means Ash is his dream killer - He'll end up getting the same treatment as Ash got in BW. I don't think Ash was any worse in BW than in any other saga. And the battle you mention is the most unfair in the history of the anime. Ash sent Pikachu out first and I still say Pikachu should have won. It's the reason I say BW was unfair on Ash as it seems XY will be on Sawyer.

 

[AlphaOmegaKnight]

I kinda hope ash doesn't lose to Shota. But if its a very close match I'd be ok with that

 

[Timmyman2001]

This is going to probably go down as the most unpopular opinion on this thread.

My prediction is we will see a mega sceptile VS greninja fight in the league with Mega Scep winning, only to have ash send out his Sceptile, mega evolve it, and curb stomp shota's sceptile. we all know ash's sceptile will be far superior in every aspect.






if it isnt ash's sceptile its gonna be ash's mega zard Y. reason i feel this way is because in the first mega evolution show it has that one guy (cant remember his name) finding another mega stone and at the same time hearing about ash and garchomp. the moment that happened i was like "ash's charizard is gonna mega evolve!"

 

[Acdog]

Does anyone else find it strange that both Ash and Team Rocket act as though they've never met Steven when they have?

 

[the1stpkmnfan]

It was nice to see the throwbacks to Hoenn, especially with ORAS getting some light promotion.

I'm warming up to Sawyer, and the battle with Ash wasn't terrible. Having Ash win was definitely expected, and came to no surprise or complaint. Seeing Ash as a mentor trainer is rather appropriate, especially with 6 badges under his arsenal. With Sawyer holding 1 badge, that's where he falls short: experience & successes. But when he comes back, I expect he'll show off a good fight.

I'm also hoping for Sceptile VS Greninja in the Kalos League.

 

[Orton155]

I like Sawyer after this episode. Even though he is inexperienced and makes rookie mistakes, I don't find it annoying, in fact I find endearing. Additionally, I love the facts he notes his experiences as thats probably the type of thing I'd do if I was on a journey like him.

The battle was a bit of a mismatch but showed the learning curve that Sawyer now faces to get to Ash's level. Also that Grovyle-Frogadier rivalry excites me and the league battle should be amazing because of it.

Good episode, onto the next one!

 

[Cloud5001]

Hehe I loved Pikachu's little pose after being complimented by Sawyer. So badass yet so adorable at the same time.

 

[Wednesdayz]

Does anyone else find it strange that both Ash and Team Rocket act as though they've never met Steven when they have?

I kind of expected them to forget him honestly, since it had been ages since they first saw him.