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A Unova League Evolution (769)

Discussion in 'Pokémon Black & White - Adventures in Unova' started by Serebii, Jan 10, 2013.

  1. Darkrai'sVoid

    Darkrai'sVoid Member

    I'm still disappointed in this episode. At least the makers of the series would look back at how many Pokemon Leagues that Ash has lost, and at least let him win for once. I was just able to watch this last night, and after Ash lost, I wanted to see Virgil win and what do ya know, he does.
  2. Joltik-Kid

    Joltik-Kid Meh ಠ_ಠ

    Or the fact that he had no Unova Pokemon to speak of
  3. Nightstar1994

    Nightstar1994 Well-Known Member

    This only confirms that Unvoa lacks of good trainers.
  4. wobbanut

    wobbanut Team Awesome

    Yeah, Ash losing to Cameron when Cameron didn't even have a full team sucks, but it still isn't as bad a league loss as when Ash lost to Richie because Charizard wouldn't obey him. I still find "Friend or Foe" hard to watch. I did like the montage at the end of this episode.

  5. fitzy909

    fitzy909 Just another guy

    i did not like how he got a surprise evolution and had an over powered hydreigon as well. ash should have won, but they made him lose to a trainer who didn't even have a full team. i am quite disappointed in this episode.
  6. J Ken

    J Ken RAVE

    I am okay with Cameron winning here since Ash deserved to be beat after he gave Cameron everything he needed to win the battle and did such a poor job in the region in all.

    Also Virgil beating Cameron so easily and Dino almost winning showed that they were more skilled then Ash as well. The only people that Ash truly showed he had more skill then was Stephan and Bianca.
  7. silent_control

    silent_control Well-Known Member

    Ash had never been that humiliated before. And this episode is basically the creed of Unova: humiliating Ash.
  8. RVD_fan

    RVD_fan Well-Known Member

    Not saying your wrong but as a competitive battler loading your team up with Waters and Steels is pretty commonplace.
  9. NPT

    NPT Just a member

    This episode picked up where "Cameron's Secret Weapon!" left off. After Cameron's Riolu evolved into Lucario, Ash ordered Snivy to use Leaf Blade on it and Snivy tried to do so. But Lucario sent Snivy flying with a Force Plam attack. Snivy tries to use Vine Whip on Lucario, but it grabed Snivy's Vine Whip, then spun and throw her off! Snivy still managed to get back on her feet, but then Cameron's Lucario used its most OP move..... Aura Sphere and knocked out Snivy(darn!). Then Ash sent his last Pokémon Pikachu to battle Lucario. Then Pikachu and Lucario started hitting each other with Iron Tail, Force Plam, Electro Ball, Aura Sphere and after a while both Pokémon were down. Ash and Cameron encouraged their Pokémon to get up and they did! Lucario used Aura Sphere and Pikachu used Electro ball. both attacks collided, but Aura Sphere overpowered Electro Ball and hit Pikachu hard... and knocked him out, making Cameron the moron the winner.

    Cameron and Virgil battled in the next round. After Cameron was down to his last Pokémon, Lucario, Virgil's Flareon totally owned Cameron's Lucario and won the match. Bianca said he'll cheer for Virgil all the way... because he defeated Cameron who defeated Ash? I guess she's just happy that Virgil defeated the same person who defeated her in the Unova league. Aaaaand then Virgil defeated Dino in the finals and won the Unova League. Wow, what a surprise. >_>

    Later Ash, Iris, Cilan, Steaphan and Cameron congratulated Virgil for winning the Unova league and then he left in helicopter. Just then Bianca came running with a bunch of Castelia Cones in her hands, and she knocked Ash into a water fountain again! She told them that she was hoping to give Virgil all the Castelia Cones (What? Why'd you do that?), but since he left, she'll give the it to the others.

    Later we see Ash standing in the middle of the empty battlefield, remebering his misadventures in Unova... then we see Iris and Cilan calling him and he runs towards them as one of the worst episodes of the Pokémon series ends.

    So, Cameron won the match and Ash... a trainer who traveled Kanto, Johto, Hoenn and Sinnoh, lost? Oh seriously? Darn, I was hoping for Ash to beat Cameron and fight Virgil in the semi finals, but NO.... he just HAD to lose to that doofus! Instead of making it to the Top 4 again, he made it to the Top 8. Whoa, he actually got a lower rank in this league.

    Instead of having Ash progress, this time the writers humiliated Ash by making him lose to a trainer who dosen't even know that a full battle requires six Pokémon. This episode sucked even more than the last episode, not only did Ash's league ranking drop, he also lost to an idiotic excuse of a trainer. Compared to the awesome Sinnoh League, the Unova League was full of BS.
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
  10. Weavy

    Weavy They call me the one who loves cats.

    This episode, my gosh this episode was horrible!

    This really just feels to me the ONLY reason Ash lost is because Cameron's Riolu evolved into Lucario. That's it. Ash actually could have won this but no, they have to gave Lucario some more glory. Then Virgil proceeds to beat Cameron easily in the next round and goes on to be the champion. Seriously?!

    This episode basically justifies why Virgil was a pointless character. I feel he should have been the one to defeat Ash because at least he actually knows what he's doing. Cameron was and is an unlikeable idiot who should have never existed in the first place. Part of me wishes a different rival should have showcased Samurott *sigh*
  11. Lord Trollbias

    Lord Trollbias Y'all Salty Bishes

    Rewatched this epsiode because I was on a League binge. Christ this League was...disappointing to say the least. My fault for holding out too much hope for this battle, especially since Ash vs. Stephan was actually decent.
  12. Pikachu52

    Pikachu52 Well-Known Member

    Two minds

    I'm in two minds about it. I'm sort of okay with Ash loosing to Cameron for two reasons. 1) Ash and Cameron are shown to have become very good friends. I like Cameron. He's energetic, fun and a little quirky but he's clearly a caring and kind warmhearted person. He's similar to Ash in so many ways that you get the feeling their kindred Spirits (I don't ship Ash and Cameron I ship Ash with Pikachu). They both put in their best and Ash lost and that's noting to be ashamed of. 2) I liked the fact Riolu evolved to help Cameron win the battle because it shows the very strong bond between the two of them given Riolu's evolve by friendship. Cameron and Lucario share the same sort of bond that Ash has with Pikachu. It's clear they both care and love each other very much and that means it was their bond that made the difference in the end and not an assertion of strength, which is the main thrust of the Anime anyway. Trainers achieve through love and friendship which is why Paul was inevitably a failure.

    However in some ways it was a disappointing end to the Unova league. Cameron did only bring 5 Pokémon to a full battle and still won decisively which may have left some people with the impression that Ash is weak or that his Unova Team was weak. It wasn't, I actually think Ash's best team was his Unova team. I maintain that this loss would not have been as bad if Ash had performed better in some of the tournament arches. I strongly feel he should have won the battle with Iris in the first BW series. The most disappointing thing is this result seems to have turned the fandom against Cameron, which is sad because he is a good character. They should have introduced him earlier and had him more involved in the plot of major episodes. I would like to have seen Ash and Cameron take on Team Plasma side by side.

    Virgil winning the entire league is a little bit of a stretch. He's entire team consists of Eevees. While I like Eevee and it's evolved forms because there cute, there not the strongest Pokémon in terms of defence or attack stats. I personally think given the chance Ash could have beaten Virgil in a battle with his Unova team. Think about it. Oshawott could take out Flareon. Snivy would beat Vaporeon. Scraggy would match up well against Umbreon. Krokodile would defeat Jolteon no problem. Pikachu against Espeon maybe and Pignite for Glaceon. Not sure about Eevee but either Pikachu or Scraggy.

    Personally I think having Ash win the League would have been a pleasant end to what was at times a rather poorly written series and would have made up for his losses in the other tournaments. I would have loved to see as accept the trophy at the ceremony. it would something like;

    Ash: I owe this to all my Pokémon. We did it Pikachu
    Pikachu: Pika Pikapi
    Then Oshawott pops out of his Pokémon, knocks Ash off his shoulder and cries out 'Osha Osha' proudly. Pikachu then tried to thunderbolt him but hits Ash instead. Maybe Ash could even have given Pikachu a kiss on the cheek. It would have been so cute.
  13. Pikachu52

    Pikachu52 Well-Known Member

    I think your being a bit unfair. Cameron may be a bit of a scatterbrain and he didn't realise he had to register, but I think more or less he earned the win. He's is a strong trainer. He had a diverse and Powerful team of diverse and fully evolved Pokémon (though obviously a Pokémon does not need to evolve to be strong and I don't want to see the anime take on a evolution is nothing to be afraid of attitude). That fact Ash helped him shows what a kind person Ash is and how close he and Cameron became. Give the poor guy a break. And why should Ash be angry with his loss. He did his best and he lost to a good friend after a hard fight. I think it shows how much Ash has matured since the original series.
  14. Pikachu52

    Pikachu52 Well-Known Member

    Cameron didn't cheat. He just made a mistake. If anything he and Lucario overcame quite a bit of adversity to win like that.
  15. Pikachu52

    Pikachu52 Well-Known Member

    I don't think Snivy or Scraggy needed to evolve. For starter Snivy is a really strong Pokémon and has shown herself to be so, beating several Pokémon even when she had a type disadvantage and taking out nearly Ash's entire team when he tried to catch her. I think it's safe to say if she wanted to evolve she would have. A lot of Scraggy's personality and his friendship with Axew revolved around him being a Scraggy. He was one of the kids of the group and he would have had to grow up in order to evolve. This would have been too difficult for Axew. I'm generally of the opinion that there is no need for Pokémon to evolve simply to be strong and that evolution should not happen unless it is central to the plot line or develops the Pokémon's character in some way (like Tepig).

    I'm actually more mad at the Sinnoh loss than the Unova one. The fact that a trainer can enter a tournament with legendary Pokémon that doesn't even need to train just seems like cheating more than anything, especially as legendaries are regarded as Uber in the games and not allowed in certain tournaments. That was the biggest joke ever. And who was Tobias anyway. Big silent bloke who I thought was quite arrogant - "Look at me I have legendary Pokémon. You mere mortals can tremble at my feet. What's that. My Darkrai has been defeated. Oh dear. I shall have to take out my second legendary Pokémon. Please kill Pikachu quickly Latios. I'm going to be late my for a spot of Tea with the Governor-General."

    The fact that Unova was a drop from previous leagues isn't really unreasonable. You can't expect him to do well in every league. And Cameron is clearly a skilled and dedicated trainer who loves and cares for his Pokémon. He's certainly not dark mysterious I'm late for tea with the Governor-General Tobias with his Darkrai and Latios. Cameron is a way better character than Tobais. At least he's good natured and recognises he has fault and unlike Tobais has a strong bond with his Pokémon (Tobais never complemented Darkrai once). It's much more believable that Riolu would evolve and come through for Cameron than Tobais mopping the floor with Ash's team with his Uber Pokés on his way to tea at Government house.
  16. Pikachu52

    Pikachu52 Well-Known Member

    I think your being a little bit harsh. The final showdown between Lucario and Pikachu was decent, particularly the way it came down to electroball vs aura sphere. Pikachu was just unlucky that aura sphere overpower electroball. If electroball had succeeded then Pikachu would have won. Both attacks could have exploded and both Pokémon faint. Ash's loss was disappointing yes but only because he had a number of unfair defeats in the rest of the series. To loss to Iris in the club battle in Nimbassa Town was way worse - I'm more upset about that than this loss. And in any case it was a way better finish than the loss to Tobias.
  17. Pikachu52

    Pikachu52 Well-Known Member

    I don't think Lucario evolving like that is bad. Yes it is the only reason Cameron won but it does show how much Riolu/Lucario loved and cared about Cameron and wanted to come through for him. Riolu evolves from friendship after all. Ash was just unfortunate in this case. I think it's better to enjoy Cameron's victory rather than commiserate Ash's loss. Cameron totally earned it. He won because he had a strong bond with his Pokémon just like Ash has with Pikachu. that is what the anime and the games places the emphasis on anyway especially in Gen V. It's a way better ending than loosing to a mystery bloke with a Darkrai and Latios who is only there to beat the C*** out of Ash. I can't believe people are less upset about that than this. At least Cameron cares and loves Riolu where as Tobias is cold and heartless.

    And Cameron is not an unlikeable character. He's way better than Tobias. I thought he was quite a good addition. He's energetic, quirky, confident and a bit of a scatterbrain. He was shown to develop quite a strong friendship with Ash. They were kindred spirits as a I've said before. The only disappointment was that Cameron was not introduced early enough. He should have appeared in the early series and had more involvement in the plot line. I would liked to have seen him fight either Team Rocket or Team Plasma with Riolu alongside Ash.
  18. Pikachu52

    Pikachu52 Well-Known Member

    Cameron deserved the win

    The fact that he was able to shrug off the loss shows how much Ash has matured and that he really is a good natured person. He and Cameron had formed quite a close relationship over the course of the league and I think part of him was really happy for his friend.

    The fact that Ash was angry when he lost to Paul in DP is more of a reflection that he really didn't like Paul. Paul is the worst character Pokémon has ever come up. He is literally the worst S*** in the entire anime (though Hunter J may give him a run for his money). He mistreats Pokémon, only values strength and riches and was nasty and demeaning to Ash and took pleasure in his humiliation and in injuring his Pokémon friends. The bloke deserves to be eaten by a Cofagrigus. So it's not unreasonable that Paul would make Ash feel bad, where as Cameron was very civil and sportsman like and he and Ash shook hands and left the stadium as friends. That's the sort of thing you want to see not depression.

    Also the point of the loss to Brawly was to showcase a great deal of immaturity in Ash's character. He lost that battle because he mistreated and expected too much from Treeko whom he later apologised to. He beat Brawly by learing the error of his ways. It's completely different to BW where he was shown to have grown up and treated his Pokémon with love and respect.

    If anything I'm surprised he wasn't more upset about his loss to the Sinnoh League. Tobias totally cheated and he was okay with it. I would have been livid if were him about loosing to a cheater with legendary Pokémon for goodness sake. And yet people give him a hard time over loosing a hard fought battle with Cameron who earned the win.
  19. This battle was atrocious. It really made not only Ash but Boldore, Unfezant, Oshawott and Snivy look horrible. Had Cameron used his sixth Pokemon and one of the four Pokemon I mentioned defeated it, I wouldn't have minded this battle so much.

    Also, what happened to Attract?
  20. Pikachu52

    Pikachu52 Well-Known Member

    I sort of agree. Ash's best Pokémon went down rather easily. It could have been a lot better. Having Snivy taken out so easily was a disappointment given she is easily his strongest. I guess Lucario was just too much.

    Overall it's not that bad a result. To have pulled this off it shows Cameron is a strong competent trainer as good or better than Ash. I wonder why people struggle to accept that.

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