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A Unova League Evolution (769)

Discussion in 'Pokémon Black & White - Adventures in Unova' started by Serebii, Jan 10, 2013.

  1. That was cool how the end of the episode was like the end of the league arc in the OS. :)

    Even though I saw Ash getting defeated coming, I still thought, for just a moment, he was going to pull a win out of his butt right at the last second. Then that Aura Sphere hit Pikachu, and it was all over.
  2. Actually it kind of was a bad result. A strong competent trainer would know where the Pokemon league is to be held and to bring six with him. Cameron is just an unrealistically overpowered trainer who doesn't know his left from his right.

    He acts like someone who just got his first Pokemon. There is no way he should be stronger than Ash.
  3. Pikachu52

    Pikachu52 Well-Known Member

    In fairness to Cameron he did have a team of 6 fully evolved Pokémon excluding Riolu and had managed to capture or train hydrigon. Given in the games they evolve at Lvi64 and are characterised as being brutal, this was clearly not an easy feet. And Cameron did show he was able to battle competently against Marlon and in the first stages of the league. As to knowing where the Pokémon league is held or how many Pokémon to bring - his character is forgetful and has trouble with numbers. That doesn't mean when it comes to actually battling he can't put up a decent strategy. He was able to beat Ash despite being one Pokémon short so it's not like he doesn't know what he's doing. Even gym leaders make relatively stupid errors. In AG Tate and Liza nearly lost the battle to Ash because they couldn't work together and behaved very unprofessionally given gym leaders are suppose to be strong and competent. Even when Ash was partnered with Paul in heart home tag competition they were able to coordinate better than Liza and Tate. So it's impossible that even strong trainers can make foolish errors. Ash wouldn't have know anything about the gyms or places in Unova had he not had Iris and Cilan. Cameron travelled with no one.

    The result was disappointing but Cameron is still a great character and I've stated before I think he should have been introduced earlier in the series and been involved more often. People are being way too hard on Cameron for some of the mistakes he makes. It's worst remembering that Pokémon is still a children's show regardless of how much of a cult following it has and that younger audiences are likely to find someone like Cameron funny. His exploits are comic relief there is no need to take them so seriously. He's no more stupid than Team Rocket were in the first four generations or even Ash himself in the original series (he went into his journey knowing nothing and did not obtain his first few badges through an actual battle). In any case, we've seen a number of situations where one of Ash's or another main character's Pokémon has evolved in order to turn the tables on a battle (e.g. Ash's Tepig). Therefore it's not unreasonable to see another character's beloved Pokémon evolve to get them out of a bad situation. Hardly unreasonable given Riolu evolve through friendship. It just so happened in this instance that Ash was on the receiving end of the power of the bond between trainer and Pokémon when usually he is the one benefiting from it. I actually think the reason the result was disappointing was mainly because Ash had fared poorly in competitions prior to the league and that the story line of BW was weak.
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2015
    Mr.Munchlax likes this.
  4. Pikachu52

    Pikachu52 Well-Known Member

    Morrison had the same problem in AG. He has to rush to get his final badge and nearly missed registration. Ash really wanted his friend to be able to compete and helped him get in. Nothing wrong with that. Cameron put the effort in to get the badges. He deserved to compete. There's no reason to dislike Cameron. He's a nice person with an energetic upbeat personality and a few comical traits. No different to the TRio.
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2015
  5. raichu27

    raichu27 Well-Known Member

    That was a decent episode. I think Ash could've switched his Pokemon to Pikachu or Snivy while battling Samurott or use a little more Thunderbolt on Lucario with Pikachu. It kinda annoys me on how he keeps losing at the League. Glad Virgil was able to beat Cameron. I also liked the ending part of this episode.
  6. Janovy

    Janovy Banned

    Cameron as a person is fine. He has an amusing personality, even if he's a scatterbrain. He also had nice interactions with Ash.

    Still doesn't change the fact his win against Ash was a total piece of crap writing and absolute humiliation for Ash.
  7. Pikachu52

    Pikachu52 Well-Known Member

    I'm with you on that. Cameron was a great character but the result of the battle was incredibly disappointing. Ash should have won.

    It certainly was but unfortunately the BW series had quite a few moments like that and there are many battles that Ash and more importantly Pikachu should have won. I still still think Ash vs Iris was the biggest load of crap writing. Out of interest, why do you defend that battle and not this one.
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2015
  8. phanpycross

    phanpycross God-king

    Eh, it kinda was. all the gyms, rival battles, and tournement battles were better than this IMO, althrough I would say the only characters who came out looking bad were snivy, unfezant, and Ash himself. The rest did decently for what could be expected of them IMO.

    Worst part was pikachu getting two wins despite already starring against trip. Boldore getting Swanna and oshawott getting a tie with samarott would have been best IMO.
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2015
  9. PokemonBattleFanatic-

    PokemonBattleFanatic- Standby for Battle!

    This league would have been a piece of cake for Paul, he had the smarts and the power to back it up.Cameron and Virgil would have given him the most trouble but for Cameron we've seen how he operates, he just goes all. out on offense and when things don't go his way he. comes up with some whacky idea by snapping his headband against his head.This wouldn't have flied with Paul as he'd use smart tactics to correct his mistakes and finish him off.For Virgil Paul can use some of his tanks like Torterra, Magmortar, and Ursaring to wear his team down then use strategy to finish him off.
  10. Pikachu52

    Pikachu52 Well-Known Member

    Cameron probably could have beaten Paul given that he beat and Ash beat Paul. And if Cameron couldn't beat Paul it's almost certain Virgil would have. His was able to take out all of Cameron's team with only three of Eevees. Paul isn't a good trainer. He was cruel person who got what he wanted by hurting others and the only reason he did well in battle was because the Pokémon he had in his party were powerful and fully evolved (and most of their training was actually done by his brother Reggie at his daycare). I don't see why there's so much affection for Paul among the fandom given how horrible a person he was shown to be. He's easily more evil than Hunter J.
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2015
  11. PokemonBattleFanatic-

    PokemonBattleFanatic- Standby for Battle!

    First off Cameron could not beat Paul because he isn't the main character and outside of Hydreigon and Lucario his team was not too impressive.Paul only lost to Ash due to plot-armor.Virgil's Team was specially trained by the rescue squad if I remember,but Paul's Pokmon were all at a high level when he captured them in the wild and he trained them to their limits.Paul may have been cruel at times but there hasn't been any showing of him hurting others unless you count the chimchar insident.Paul did not win his batles just on power alone he also used STRATEGY to win his battles,examples would be him using Pikachu's Thunder Bolt to super charge his Elekid's Thunder,him using Chimchar's flamewheel underground on Turtwig when it used Bite,and using Electabuzz's light screen in a battle to cover up for his next pokemon.There hasn't been any indication of his brother Reggie training his Pokemon,it was stated in an episode that he is a breeder and looks after many pokemon including Paul's so they are just there when Paul needs to rotate his team.Paul is loved by the fandom due to how dark and different he is from everyone else on the show,he is Ash's strongest rival imo and without Paul Ash wouldn't have gotten as far as he did as a trainer and with his team.Hunter J is easily the most evil character in the show hands down,she literally tried to kill Ash when he tried to get in her way.Paul went out of his way to help out Ash on different occasions,examples would be when Ash was stuck in Stantler's Hypnosis Paul used Chimchar to scare them off.Then when Ash and his friends's Pokemon were trapped in Team Rocket's robot Paul sent out his Electabuzz to try to save them.
  12. Pikachu52

    Pikachu52 Well-Known Member

    Cameron's Team was Lucario, Samurott, Hydreigon, Ferrothorn, Swanna and Watchhog. That's pretty impressive. It was the battle itself that wasn't impresive. Cameron also finished top 4 in Unova league where as Pauls highest ranking was only top 8 in Sinnoh.

    I think Virgil did the training himself as part of their role in the rescue squad. The Eevees were still his Pokémon. Pauls were at a higher level when he captured them yes - other than eleckid there's no indication they got stronger during their time with Paul. As for it being plot-armor - there was no way the writers could ever let a bully like Paul win. No way. If anything it was plot armor that he got as far as he did in the first place.

    Paul was condesending to Ash, rude to Dawn and reduce a gym leader to tears. That's pretty cruel. And the Chimchar incident is hardly forgivable.

    Most of Paul's strategies he either copied from Ash and Dawn or from his brother.

    In my opinion he's the weakest rival given he feels the need to dominate and bully others in order to feel good about himself. The strongest rivals are the ones who share the same qualities as Ash. Paul may have helped Ash on a couple of occassions but the rest of the time he spent badmouthing him and belitting him, in front of his friends.

    The fact that he's darker than everyone else takes him out of the rival trope and into the role of a villian. There's no problem with him being dark, the anime should have just given him the villian treatment
  13. PokemonBattleFanatic-

    PokemonBattleFanatic- Standby for Battle!

    Cameron's full team was fully evolved I give him props for that but when stacked up against Paul's tanks they stand no chance at winning,I can see Hydreigon taking down at least 1 or 2 of Paul's Pokemon but that's even doubtul considering how defensive of a trainer Paul is.Cameron finishing in top 4 just shows how weak the Unova League was itself,if Cameron was placed in the Lily Of Valley Conference he'd be eliminated much earlier in the preliminary rounds by the likes of Conway,Barry,Ash,Paul,and Tobias.It was said that Murkrow,Weavile,and Torterra were all with Paul before coming back to Sinnoh so they obviously gotten stronger over time along with his other reserves.If Chimchar never existed Paul wouldn't be getting as much heat as he did,the rest of his team seem fine with the way he did things and did not cry or complain.The only strategy he copied was the counter shield he saw Ash use in their full battle at Lake Acuity,do you honestly think Paul would spend all his time learning new moves from the likes of Ash or Dawn?Paul looked up to his brother Reggie when was first starting as a trainer but ever since that lost against Brandon that quickly changed.One quality that they do share is that they want to be the best Trainer they can be they just do it in different ways.
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2015
  14. Pikachu52

    Pikachu52 Well-Known Member

    Arguably not. The fact that Paul's is a defensive trainer doesn't mean he'd be able to withstand everything thrown at him, and Cameron wasn't a push over. He beat Ash with one less Pokémon even though it was probably a poorly drafted battle. You could also say Unova was probably stronger than Sinnoh given Ash finished a rung behind what he did in Sinnoh.

    He was still rude to everyone and openly badmouthed people. Plus the plot with Chimchar was written into the script for a reason so they obviously weren't intending to make the character a good person.

    His strategies before he saw Ash use the countershield were fairly basic. He only got any style from watching Ash and up until that point he was really just relying on strenght and stamina.
  15. SoundVoltex

    SoundVoltex Well-Known Member

    This thread is surprisingly chill compared to the recent Alain one lol.

    I just rewatched this episode. The animation was god awful... they reused so many scenes over and over again, like they literally regressed in animation... Otherwise, Rilou with the carry and Ash's Unova Pokemon not doing jack...
  16. Frostygrotto

    Frostygrotto New Member

    Dino, the guy who battled Virgil in the finals, actually got more character development than Ash in the whole series. Remember Dino was also in the Club Battle where he lost against Ash in the semi finals, yet he continues to improve whereas Ash keeps derping around. FailFish
  17. Mrs. Oreo

    Mrs. Oreo Banned

    Wow Cameron's Lucario demolished Snivy and Pikachu. I guess Virgil defeating him and winning the Unova league was cool, plus the end of the episode with Ash in the stadium reminded me of the Indigo league finale. :]
  18. Leonhart

    Leonhart Imagineer

    So as expected, Satoshi lost his chance to win the Isshu League due to Kotetsu's Lucario wiping out Pikachu. Frankly, I thought that Virgil should've defeated Satoshi instead of Kotetsu doing that, but seeing Booster beating Lucario seemed like poetic justice in the end. The closing ceremony was enjoyable.
  19. Wednesdayz

    Wednesdayz Banned

    Ugh, I didn't like how Cameron's Riolu got a surprise evolution. Ash should have won, but they made him lose to a trainer who didn't even have a full team, like what the frick? I was so disappointed in this episode.
  20. Alloutℯ

    Alloutℯ Banned

    I would have preferred it if Ash had won this match and fought Virgil in a three eppy match. That either had him lose after giving it his all or winning it just barely it would have at least made up for how crappy this league did turn out to be.

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