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A Unova League Evolution (769)

Takaru

Werk, Werk, Werk
It's not Ash losing that depresses me, it's the fact that he resembles nothing of his former self aside from his plot devices. And i'm not talking about his art design either (although it does make things worse) since his AG and DP changed but still resembled him. I'm talking about how he doesn't act anything like how did in OS, AG or DP anymore. I really can't explain how but I'm sure people know what I mean and it's enfuriating to think the writers would change him so much throughout his lifespan.

It always bugged me that for some odd reason Gary sort of "matured" or kind of grew as a trainer and character, while Ash kind of keeps going down hill. I know Gary was just used for set reason, but they did start at the same time. It just seems like lazy writing.

I guess they just like cleaning Ash's slate now.
 

gohan5

Irisboy
This episode sounds like a waste of time to watch imo. The fact that Ash is placing lower than last time in Sinnoh makes it worse. Hopefully the N series is way better than what we've gotten so far from BW.

I disagree. You can't honestly expect Ash to move up in rank in every league. Sometimes this just comes out to luck, just like when you play the tournament in your game, sometimes you win, other times you don't get past the first round. I think people put too much pressure and expectation on Ash.
 
I disagree. You can't honestly expect Ash to move up in rank in every league. Sometimes this just comes out to luck, just like when you play the tournament in your game, sometimes you win, other times you don't get past the first round. I think people put too much pressure and expectation on Ash.

Too much pressure is a understatement, more like too much faith.
 

TheSirPeras

The end of an era
He used reserves back in DP and that's how he got to top 4, he used reserves back in Johto and that's why he got top 8 for the first time.

I'm pretty sure the writers would have had Infernape go blaze mode killing everything, even if Snorlax/Heracross/Quilava/Noctowl/Donphan/whatever else wasn't there. And if not that, Pikachu.
 

Takaru

Werk, Werk, Werk
His entire style of battling regressed though, its like he gained no experience from anything he does. We saw progress from Hoenn to Sinnoh, so why did it all just go in a flash like nothing ever happened?
 
It makes me almost think that the writers hate Ash and they are tired of using him..

No it doesn't. Just becuase he doesn;t advance higher doe not mean they hate him. In real life, you get a lower grade than your last, that's how life is. It has nothing to do with them hating Ash. They don't hate any of their characters.
 

Haunter ゴースト

Well-Known Member
That's sorta what I meant, as it ties in with what your saying. OS Ash even won stuff before losing in the league and that was before he got smarter in AG/DP. Even more, he never had to heavily rely on evolution's in Gym battles to win the day for him. Ash only seemed to ever do his out of the box thinking with Oshawott (besides Pikachu) and that was only twice (both involved Water Gun). It like this was a completely different person we saw battling, yet we know for a fact that he's the same Ash since we saw the Sinnoh stuff in episode 1 of BW. It's just frustrating to see this go down after witnessing awesomeness of Ash beating two Legendary Pokemon in the Sinnoh league. Pikachu can tie with a Latios, but loses to a tired Lucario

Exactly, personally for me a lot of it isn't because of battles for me. That's not what bothers me since that isn't specifically a change in his character. The change in his character what i dislike can be noticed so heavily if you watch one episode from the OS and one from BW.

It always bugged me that for some odd reason Gary sort of "matured" or kind of grew as a trainer and character, while Ash kind of keeps going down hill. I know Gary was just used for set reason, but they did start at the same time. It just seems like lazy writing.

I guess they just like cleaning Ash's slate now.

It'll be interesting to see if when Gary returns if he's incredibly mature and looks older, or whether he has been turned into a little kid again like Ash did.
 
Burgundy, Stunfisk and Palpitoad seem to say otherwise


I do the same thing, It doesn;t mean I hate a character. I just have a humor bone in my body.
 
Being absent is not funny, it just shows they were only thrown in there for the plot of Oshawott's Aqua Jet. Thoug Burgundy, if she had gotten 1 win, it would be alright

I was talking about Cilan's rival, not the Pokemon. People expected too much out of Best Wishes, now they are calling it the worst saga. And How so we know they hate Palpatoad or Stunfisk, are we from Japan, are we the writers? No, we are not.
 

Joltik-Kid

Careful? Where's the fun in that?
You know I find sad, that this could have easily been the greatest league ever, but instead it got rushed and left little value. Did the animation staff petition to get as little work as possible, because not having a single full battle shown onscreen is just fall out wrong. If they seriously hate animating things that are "too difficult" then they should have never entered the career they've chosen.

Exactly, personally for me a lot of it isn't because of battles for me. That's not what bothers me since that isn't specifically a change in his character. The change in his character what i dislike can be noticed so heavily if you watch one episode from the OS and one from BW.
Like I said it all ties in as his personality relies on battles, as the character himself lives to battle. So yeah, I've noticed the certain "spark" as you could call it, shift in Best Wishes. He doesn't seem like he seriously wants to do anything
 
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TheSirPeras

The end of an era
I thought it meant Cilan's rival, not the Pokemon. People expected too much out of Best Wishes, now they are calling it the worst saga.

All of them were terribly handled tbh :p People expected good things because of Sinnoh, or course we would like to see battles and wise Ash and be upset when Ash does terrible in the league comparing to Snnoh. If this had been a saga after Johto or Hoenn it wouldn't have been very bad, but Sinnoh made our expectations higher
 

Nightstar1994

Well-Known Member
Darn...i REALLY wanted Dino to win the League. After all the foreshadowing and the fact Virgil won against Kotetsu, it would have been great for him to lose against Dino. But no...:(

Oh well, atleast he took the second place, that's always something. Ash will never get that :p

And the ending, nice..but it would fit more for..Episode N ending than this? It's not like adventures in Unova are over or something.
 
All of them were terribly handled tbh :p People expected good things because of Sinnoh, or course we would like to see battles and wise Ash and be upset when Ash does terrible in the league comparing to Snnoh. If this had been a saga after Johto or Hoenn it wouldn't have been very bad, but Sinnoh made our expectations higher


Just because Sinnoh was to everyone the best saga ever, doesn't mean to hype Best Wishes to live up to your expectaions. That's how life goes, you can't always get what you want. And no, they were not terribly handled just becuse they never battled much.
 

WaterShuriken

"I..I..Iron Tail, Pikachu."
Seeing Cameron beat Ash was a disappointment but seeing Virgil also only use 5 vs Cameron was great. Nice "payback." I expected Virgil to win ever since he was introduced and was surprised at Dino and Ramone's lineup. It's sad when the rival battles were more interesting than Ash's battles (exception being vs Stephan). Virgil was pretty cool and I hope he returns occasionally. Loved seeing Espeon, Flareon and Eevee. Trump Card was cool.
 

gohan5

Irisboy
You know I find sad, that this could have easily been the greatest league ever, but instead it got rushed and left little value. Did the animation staff petition to get as little work as possible, because not having a single full battle shown onscreen is just fall out wrong. If they seriously hate animating things that are "too difficult" then they should have never entered the career they've chosen.

I don't think that the anime staff is "lazy" necessarily, but rather that we're feeling the effects of a 3 year series now. A DP pace was never possible for this series and it probably could have seen the benefits from a little less rushing. But the games keep coming now, faster than ever before, and the anime is showing that.
 

TheSirPeras

The end of an era
Just because Sinnoh was to everyone the best saga ever, doesn't mean to hype Best Wishes to live up to your expectaions. That's how life goes, you can't always get what you want. And no, they were not terribly handled just becuse they never battled much.

You're right, they were also terribly handled because Palpitoad was a war machine, and Stunfisk was exactly the opposite of that. Plus you know, the lack of decent appearances... 30 episodes without appearing really hits you.
And yes, if we just come from a season where Pikachu ties with a Latias, Ash was his smartest self, Paul was a great rival, and the battles (league battles too) were well made and not rushed, your expectations will be higher.
 

Nightstar1994

Well-Known Member
I don't think that the anime staff is "lazy" necessarily, but rather that we're feeling the effects of a 3 year series now. A DP pace was never possible for this series and it probably could have seen the benefits from a little less rushing. But the games keep coming now, faster than ever before, and the anime is showing that.

That's why Sinnoh/Gen IV will always be my favorite Anime and Game saga of Pokemon respectively. I loved the atmosphere, the pacing was great, battles were exciting and even Fillers were fun. Darn Best Wishes for ruining Sinnoh's league and Darn 6th Gen for ruining Best Wishes's league. Will this become a loop now? :(
 
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