• Hi all. We have had reports of member's signatures being edited to include malicious content. You can rest assured this wasn't done by staff and we can find no indication that the forums themselves have been compromised.

    However, remember to keep your passwords secure. If you use similar logins on multiple sites, people and even bots may be able to access your account.

    We always recommend using unique passwords and enable two-factor authentication if possible. Make sure you are secure.
  • Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
  • If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders

Abortion. Right or Wrong?

Status
Not open for further replies.
The main argument for abortion is that the woman has a right to do what she wants since it may prove unhelpful for her or the baby and she may lead a horrible life. The baby may also have diseases which may not enable it to lead a proper life, in which case, abortion is an option.

However, many countries have made abortion illegal because they think that it is no better than cold-blooded murder. Pro-life activists feel that a baby should not be denied a chance at life.

So, should abortion be made illegal?
 
Last edited:

Ethan

Banned
All in all, there is nothing wrong with this topic whatsoever. The problem is that the OP made a poorly constructed opening post, and also violated the rules by posting his opinion while making no argument. Topics that don't get off to a good start, usually don't have a good end. If someone wants to re-make this topic with a better constructed post that does not violate the rules, they may do so.

Edit: The OP has agreed to elaborate more on his opening post, therefore I'll re-open this.



I've never liked the idea of abortion. I'm also tired of many people act like all abortions are carried out during the time when are embryos. There is a such thing as "partial birth" abortions that they are currently debating in congress right now. It's where they terminate the pregnancy when the infants head is coming out of the birth canal. Hence why they call it partial birth abortion because technically the baby is not "fully born" into the world. Sounds like legality to me.

Granted the mother should have a decision, however just because she has to go through the pain of giving birth shouldn't mean she should have the authority of whether the child lives or dies. The man in the relationship should also have just as much a say. Pain or no. I get distraught with stories of wives aborting their child behind their husbands backs. It's simply not right.

I'm sure there are certian cases in which abortion might be warranted, but the majority of the times it's not. A good amount of the abortions that take place is because the woman or couple in question didn't want to change their lifestyle. I see that as pretty incomprehensible, not to mention disgusting.

In summary, every life is worth something whether it is born or not. Unborn children have just as much potential to be great, and no one should have the authority to determine if their life is worthless.
 

Profesco

gone gently
I've never liked the idea of abortion. I'm also tired of many people act like all abortions are carried out during the time when are embryos. There is a such thing as "partial birth" abortions that they are currently debating in congress right now. It's where they terminate the pregnancy when the infants head is coming out of the birth canal. Hence why they call it partial birth abortion because technically the baby is not "fully born" into the world. Sounds like legality to me.

Agreed. That is not justified. If the birth is halfway finished, what's the point? Just go the extra inch.

Granted the mother should have a decision, however just because she has to go through the pain of giving birth shouldn't mean she should have the authority of whether the child lives or dies. The man in the relationship should also have just as much a say. Pain or no. I get distraught with stories of wives aborting their child behind their husbands backs. It's simply not right.

This is understandable, too. Both parents are equally responsible for their children legally, so both should share this responsibility. And if they disagree, there are legal mediators. Or something less formal...

I'm sure there are certian cases in which abortion might be warranted, but the majority of the times it's not. A good amount of the abortions that take place is because the woman or couple in question didn't want to change their lifestyle. I see that as pretty incomprehensible, not to mention disgusting.

Why the majority of times? How do you know most abortions are caused by the desire to maintain one's lifestyle? You also have to keep in mind that the unwanted birth could not just change the parent's lifestyle, but could throw the parent and child both into an unhealthy and damaging life. The simple cause you speak of is rather petty, but you can't lump all reasoning into that one category. I suspect it would be wiser to examine each case individually before deciding whether the abortion would be just.

In summary, every life is worth something whether it is born or not. Unborn children have just as much potential to be great, and no one should have the authority to determine if their life is worthless.

You speak of potential lives. But, however you spin it, they're not yet complete or total lives. Lives already existing fully are complete lives. They're inequal in that regard; existing life has priority. In the same way we can't dismiss the unborn life, you can't dismiss the existing life that may or may not be in jeopardy at the time.
 

Ethan

Banned
Why the majority of times? How do you know most abortions are caused by the desire to maintain one's lifestyle? You also have to keep in mind that the unwanted birth could not just change the parent's lifestyle, but could throw the parent and child both into an unhealthy and damaging life. The simple cause you speak of is rather petty, but you can't lump all reasoning into that one category. I suspect it would be wiser to examine each case individually before deciding whether the abortion would be just.

Actually that bit was from a poll I heard on the news one morning that said 67% of women that choose to have an abortion do so because they don't want the lifestyle change, or didn't feel like raising a child at that point in their life. You can disregard it if you wish.

You speak of potential lives. But, however you spin it, they're not yet complete or total lives. Lives already existing fully are complete lives. They're inequal in that regard; existing life has priority. In the same way we can't dismiss the unborn life, you can't dismiss the existing life that may or may not be in jeopardy at the time.

That doesn't mean they don't matter just as much. Sure, you one can use the same old dried argument that "embryos aren't babies" however, if your going to say an embryo isn't good enough or worthy enough to live, just who lays out the drawing line?
 
That doesn't mean they don't matter just as much. Sure, you one can use the same old dried argument that "embryos aren't babies" however, if your going to say an embryo isn't good enough or worthy enough to live, just who lays out the drawing line?

I think what he's trying to say is that while the life may have value, you have to take into consideration that the child's life maybe horrible in contrast.

For example, if a mother doesn't have enough money to support the baby, why should she give birth? So that the baby can suffer?
 

mangaeyes

Well-Known Member
If a child isn't going to be brought up with love or isn't going to have a life it diserves then it should be aborted. Not adopted. If their parents can't give them what they need then they should be aborted before its too late and before you ruin a life.
 

Othin

Well-Known Member
Partial-birth abortions are a completely different matter from normal abortions; there's no reason at all to bring them up in the same debate. The abortions being argued here all take place at a time where it undeniably is an embryo being aborted, not a separate organism, and certainly not a human.

There's no reason for anyone else to be deciding what someone does to a part of their own body, and for that reason, it's illogical for the father to have any more say in the matter than the mother allows him to- or for anyone else to be saying that it should be illegal.
 

Ethan

Banned
Partial-birth abortions are a completely different matter from normal abortions; there's no reason at all to bring them up in the same debate. The abortions being argued here all take place at a time where it undeniably is an embryo being aborted, not a separate organism, and certainly not a human.

The last time I checked, you weren't the creator of the topic. So I suggest you keep to yourself and not tell us what we should and should not be debating. Second, the OP didn't specify either way. This topic is about abortion. Which means all forms of it.

There's no reason for anyone else to be deciding what someone does to a part of their own body, and for that reason, it's illogical for the father to have any more say in the matter than the mother allows him to- or for anyone else to be saying that it should be illegal.

Way to not back up a single word you said with any logic at all.

If a child isn't going to be brought up with love or isn't going to have a life it diserves then it should be aborted. Not adopted. If their parents can't give them what they need then they should be aborted before its too late and before you ruin a life.

Who are you, or who is anyone to decide the qaulity of another persons life?
 

mangaeyes

Well-Known Member
Who are you, or who is anyone to decide the qaulity of another persons life?

Thats just my opinion in this debate. If the mother and father can't look after it then why have the baby because it would be brought up in a world where it might not be properly looked after. I'm not just talking about the babies life I'm also talking about the parents lives.
 
Thats just my opinion in this debate. If the mother and father can't look after it then why have the baby because it would be brought up in a world where it might not be properly looked after. I'm not just talking about the babies life I'm also talking about the parents lives.

He's right. If having a child will ruin both the parent's and child's life, then it should be aborted. Isn't it better to kill a child before being born rather than let it live it's life in suffering?
 

??????

That guy.
If their parents can't give them what they need then they should be aborted before its too late and before you ruin a life.
Since when does anyone decide the quality of life? Only the person living the life can determine its quality, not the doctor, mother, or anyone. That arguement 'The babyz lief will b t3h suxxorz' is flawed.

I am against abortion, and believe it is murder. What is the difference between killing a fetus and a baby? They're both alive, underdeveloped, humans. The only difference between them is the level of development. With the logic from that, it is more justified to kill a baby than a teen.
 
I am against abortion, and believe it is murder. What is the difference between killing a fetus and a baby? They're both alive, underdeveloped, humans. The only difference between them is the level of development. With the logic from that, it is more justified to kill a baby than a teen.

In the first two trimesters, the baby is nothing more than a pile of cells. Killing it would be like killing a cockroach. And your baby and teen argument makes no sense.
 

.TraX.

Bad and Nationwide
Actually that bit was from a poll I heard on the news one morning that said 67% of women that choose to have an abortion do so because they don't want the lifestyle change, or didn't feel like raising a child at that point in their life. You can disregard it if you wish.

I'm trying to work out if there is actually a problem with that.

Poor parenting is causing a lot of problems in the world, adoptive parents, at least check (at least in Australia), are too few and far between and some are pretty dubious anyway.


I just wish people would calm down with their breeding while we work out this whole food air deal.
 

seadra147

THIS IS PING!!
Abortion MAY be a way around a criminal, but you may also destroy your only opportunity to save the world. I personally don't support it.
 
I completely believe abortion is total murder. You are killing an innocent baby. I don't care if the medical term is a "fetus" it has a soul if you ask me, and that's all that matters. However, I believe abortion should remain legal. Illegalizing it would be a disaster. I'd have to agree with Hillary Clinton that abortion should be safe, legal, available, but rare. Honestly, what is the Catholic church and what are the extreme Conservatives thinking? We need easy, available birth control and in-depth, detailed, sex education in our schools. Saying, "LOL ABSTINENCE" does NOT work. I don't know who the heck actually thinks it does. So, before we try to illegalize abortion, lets FIX the things that could make it rare. Sex Ed., like I said, oh, and I dunno...FIXING OUR ADOPTION SYSTEM! People whine "just adopt it" all the time, but yeah, sorry, that just doesn't work. :/
 

Darkmaster Rannon

Thundercats Hoo!
In the first two trimesters, the baby is nothing more than a pile of cells. Killing it would be like killing a cockroach. And your baby and teen argument makes no sense.

Taking what is to be a human life is like killing a cockroach? Ok, killing your entire family is like killing termites then. It's still a human life you're taking, no way around it.
 

Othin

Well-Known Member
The last time I checked, you weren't the creator of the topic. So I suggest you keep to yourself and not tell us what we should and should not be debating. Second, the OP didn't specify either way. This topic is about abortion. Which means all forms of it.
My point stands that partial-birth abortions can't be used as a counterargument to any other type of abortion, and that's exactly what you were doing. As for what exactly the topic is about... note the most recent post by the TS. It's pretty clear that he isn't talking about partial-birth abortions- no surprise; no one ever actually does. Your claiming otherwise had even less basis than the correct claim I made (which you took issue with), because it never happens as opposed to always happening.

Way to not back up a single word you said with any logic at all.
If there's a specific part of that that you feel wasn't backed up well enough, point out exactly what it was and I'll elaborate.

Abortion MAY be a way around a criminal, but you may also destroy your only opportunity to save the world. I personally don't support it.
Save the world? You think that someone whose parents would've, if given the legal opportunity, kept them from being born would be the one person who winds up in a situation where they can "save the world", while no one else does... yeah, right.

Taking what is to be a human life is like killing a cockroach? Ok, killing your entire family is like killing termites then. It's still a human life you're taking, no way around it.
You're attempting to equalize a few random cells with a living creature? A fetus is not its own life before the third trimester, and it's certainly not human.
 
Last edited:

Ethan

Banned
Thats just my opinion in this debate. If the mother and father can't look after it then why have the baby because it would be brought up in a world where it might not be properly looked after. I'm not just talking about the babies life I'm also talking about the parents lives.

If you haven't figured it out yet, by the announcement I've made, the rule in the sticky, or the mass amount of infractions I have given, I don't care about your opinion. :) I care about arguments.

"The baby should be aborted if it brings down the qaulity of life for both parents in question."

Well that's a pretty sorry reason if you ask me. The last time I checked, parents were supposed to put their children before themselves.

My point stands that partial-birth abortions can't be used as a counterargument to any other type of abortion, and that's exactly what you were doing. As for what exactly the topic is about... note the most recent post by the TS. It's pretty clear that he isn't talking about partial-birth abortions- no surprise; no one ever actually does. Your claiming otherwise had even less basis than the correct claim I made (which you took issue with), because it never happens as opposed to always happening.

I was pointing out the naive idea that all abortions are performed during the embryo stage. Fyi the OP doesn't have to explicitly mention partial birth abortions for it to be a valid point to bring up. I challenge you to show me specifically how I used that point as a direct argument against all abortion. Good luck.


If there's a specific part of that that you feel wasn't backed up well enough, point out exactly what it was and I'll elaborate.

Well that's easy:

There's no reason for anyone else to be deciding what someone does to a part of their own body, and for that reason, it's illogical for the father to have any more say in the matter than the mother allows him to- or for anyone else to be saying that it should be illegal.

Why?
 

mangaeyes

Well-Known Member
If you haven't figured it out yet, by the announcement I've made, the rule in the sticky, or the mass amount of infractions I have given, I don't care about your opinion. :) I care about arguments.
Omg you actually just said you want an argument in the debate forum? Its a debate and everyone is discussing the topic without arguig so why would you, a mod, want to start an argument?
 

Ethan

Banned
Omg you actually just said you want an argument in the debate forum? Its a debate and everyone is discussing the topic without arguig so why would you, a mod, want to start an argument?


Haha, I think you misunderstand. I don't mean arguing as in senseless bickering. When your in here you can't just post your opinion, but you need to back up what you say with an argument(s)

A debate with no debating isn't a debate. This is a debate forum, not a discussion forum.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top