First off,... maybe. xD Second off, the fetus has the potential to become life. For thousands of years a lot of children died a stillbirth or died in childbirth, so it's not like just because it has 48 (god willing) chromosomes, doesn't make it alive. It's only alive when you hear it's heart beat, or when it becomes aware. That makes it alive.
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Abortion, Right or Wrong?
- Thread starter Rezon
- Start date
First off,... maybe. xD Second off, the fetus has the potential to become life. For thousands of years a lot of children died a stillbirth or died in childbirth, so it's not like just because it has 48 (god willing) chromosomes, doesn't make it alive. It's only alive when you hear it's heart beat, or when it becomes aware. That makes it alive.
hey, just cause i wrote that doesnt mean i agree with it. im not an idiot, i know fish have nervous systems and i assume they can feel pain. i was writing the feelings and ideas of the average pescatarian, not of myself. please, if you dont agree with something i say due to a misunderstanding, question me in opposition to taking it in a confrontational manner.
also, on your masterbation point, an occasional release of sperm is actually good for a guys reproductive health. oddly enough, it can actually help a child being concieved through sex, as it makes it so that the guy can go longer before an ejaculation (ugh, i hate talking about this in a scientific manner, its much more fun used in flirting XD). i hate to have to call you on your points, but you tried doing that to me, so an eye for an eye.
I cant think of a name
uck you!
No, heart beat has little to do with life. Is a plant nonliving? How about a mushroom? The fetus is technically alive too, the question is whether it deserves rights.
Gren Draco
RIOTRIOTRIOTRIOTRIOT
i agree with erienne, the fetus isn't alive until it knows it is. The problem raised then is how do we know when it knows it's alive? Yes we can run scientific tests etc. But science says my dog doesn't know he's alive, so in all honesty i wouldn't take what science says into to high of a regard in this instance.
on an unrelated topic Jellyfish have no heart, brain or blood. i think i speak for the many when i say; wtf??
on an unrelated topic Jellyfish have no heart, brain or blood. i think i speak for the many when i say; wtf??
SUPERSAIYANALEX
KEEPER OF TORAH
I agree with missey. it should be counted as a living thing. i had a friend who has had abortions before and she said that she did not think it was right. i was kind of mad at her when i heared this since i inherited my mother's love for kids. if i get a girlfriend and end up in that situation i would refuse to let her destroy something as precious as the child growing inside her womb. besides i feel their pain. the baby is not the only thing that feels pain, the mother feels the pain also. adoption is thee bbest way to go since it doesnt involve murder. ( if you know the story of exodus then you will understand my background.) besides sexual intercourse is not " just for fun" if you don't want a kid then don't have sex. people who look at sex as entertainment are wrong. the baby is what makes it so very worth the pain and i hear that from all mothers that after the child is born it is amazing. they don't even care about the pain. mother's also share the pain of the child. so yes children even as a fetus feel pain. it disgusts me that so many people do this just for money. plus even the mother can die from abortion so baically they are sacrificing themselves when they go through the process.
The Doctor
Absolute Beginner
So are plants for fruits and vegetables. So by that logic, people all over the world murder innocent crops every day of every year.
Even though adopted kids are more likely to go off the rails and the only surefire way to ensure it is, as Carlisle said, is to be white and healthy. If the child has a disability, the chances drop. I'm not saying adopted kids are all going to be truants, I'm just saying chances are higher.
I'm guessing you're a very conservative Christian. Sex isn't just for procreation, it's the ultimate expression of love. Some do it for that, some to consummate their marriage, others to start a family, others just for fun. I also loved the whole "I'm right, you're wrong" thing going on there.
Starlight Aurate
Just a fallen star
Plants don't have feelings or brains like humans do. So, even if they're living, you can't techinically "murder" them, because they can't and never will have feelings or a brain.
You still think it would be better to murder a kid then to go ahead and give it a chance to live? I keep on seeing abortion as murder, you could have a child with a CHANCE to live and you take it away.
The Doctor
Absolute Beginner
So does a zygote, technically. It has no brains or emotions.
Like people keep saying, it's not a kid. It's not even, technically speaking, alive. It is a ball of cells, practically no different from the many others floating around the human body, the only exception being it's growing. Also, supposing the mother is a teenager, aged about 14 or thereabouts. She has to deal with puberty and the emotional stress of that, and motherhood would make things worse. She wouldn't be able to cope, and it's highly likely her child would inevitably go down that same path. There are some who rise to the challenge, and I respect them for that, but I don't see why they need to be punished for one incident of human error.
Ohshi
Banned from Club Penguin
As soon as the egg gets fertilized, I consider it alive. So I guess it doesn't matter what stage it is, its still considered murder. I don't consider killing potential life like sperm consider as murder.
Crops, fruits, and vegetables are killed for a good reason. For food.
Crops, fruits, and vegetables are killed for a good reason. For food.
SWEETCHERRYB
pure hearted girl!:)
i agree with missey and supersaiyanalex! abortion is wrong. if anyone remembers what horton said from dr. seus's horton hears a who. "a person is a person no matter how small." i don't understand why all people think about is sex anyway. i don't need it. anyone can live without it. i guess people are just to stupid to understand how much fun a baby is. i work at a daycare and i do this not for money, but because i love children. god even detest's abortion. one of the ten commandments is thou shall not kill yet i don't think most of you really realise that your mothers had chances to kill you so what makes you say that the fetus is not a living thing? anything that has to eat and go potty is still something that is alive. it doesn't matter if it's still a fetus. that just makes it a living cell. sex is like the word integrate. " to take something and make itself whole." i plan on having a large family and just the sound of it touches my heart! but for the birth control pills and condoms, they aren't fail safe so whats the point of using them? god has a plan for each and every soul, nobody came here because of some lame accident.
The Doctor
Absolute Beginner
Just like to point out Dr Seuss didn't approve of pro-life groups using his phrase for their views, and he even threatened to sue one because of that, so that point is moot.
You make it sound like everyone has sex on the brain, that they count the seconds between each tryst. There's no denying sex is pleasurable, and, as many people and myself have stated, considered the greatest expression of love. People who aren't religious aren't heathens who can't stop thinking about it; some people are asexual. Some just don't like it. I don't see what your point is.
Not meaning to bring religion into this, but despite that very clear instruction from The Lord Their God, Christians slaughtered Muslims to claim the Holy Land, and committed witch-burnings against innocent women.
You seem to be under the misguided belief that abortion means killing five-month-old babies. They're undertaken within the time limit of 12 weeks; past then, the baby has a 50/50 chance of survival. Anything past that would just endanger the mother even more.
The skin cells and hair you leave on your bed are also technically living and contain human DNA.
Both you and Alex (who's remarkably similar to you) are under the impression women get abortions because they see pregnancy as a minor inconvenience that can be swiftly solved with a syringe, when it isn't like that at all. You probably don't understand the emotional impact of an abortion; it's an important decision to make, and one that the subject has to think about very carefully. It's not something you just make on a whim and forget about later after lunch.
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SUPERSAIYANALEX
KEEPER OF TORAH
you know just because someone has a disability (like me) doesn't mean that they should be killed. this isn't the middle ages anymore. plus i have friends who have disabilities so that's like saying that alot of sped kids have no point in existing. i have a friend who is paralyzed in his right arm. his arm has been useless since the day he was born. he has a job and even plays softball very well. i have issues with my brain therefore i can't get hit in the head. i'm adopted by my grandma. nobody deserves to die. you want to know something
? sped kids are the best friends a person could ever make! nobody says that we are just pathetic people with no future!!! i'll have you know that god chooses the weak and the foolish to confound the wise!! that refers to people who are disabled!!! the so-called average person is the one who usually is reffered to as the wise. we get the worst treatment from the wise because it helps them say that we are mentaly insane. i'll tell you i'm not insane, i am just doing what my lord said for me to do and that's to live life! people who have problems with disabled people should notice that most "true christians" are sped people. it doesn't matter how sped we are, we can do just as much as any normal person can. people who say sped people don't have a right to live are all fools.
? sped kids are the best friends a person could ever make! nobody says that we are just pathetic people with no future!!! i'll have you know that god chooses the weak and the foolish to confound the wise!! that refers to people who are disabled!!! the so-called average person is the one who usually is reffered to as the wise. we get the worst treatment from the wise because it helps them say that we are mentaly insane. i'll tell you i'm not insane, i am just doing what my lord said for me to do and that's to live life! people who have problems with disabled people should notice that most "true christians" are sped people. it doesn't matter how sped we are, we can do just as much as any normal person can. people who say sped people don't have a right to live are all fools.
The Doctor
Absolute Beginner
When did I ever say that disabled people should die? One of my friends in primary school (elementary to you Americans) had a stunted arm and had to have a mannequin's arm to assist him; everyone loved him. I have also worked with autistic children - not people with Aspergers, genuine autism, kids with stunted language who got stressed very easily. One boy in particular was just a joy to be around. Hell, when did anyone say that?
I should also point out that the disabled are not in fact considered "insane" nowadays, and I don't know where you got that from, unless you're living in Victorian London.
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SWEETCHERRYB
pure hearted girl!:)
i think he said that when you were talking with starliteevee.
The Doctor
Absolute Beginner
I scanned my post and I mentioned nothing about exterminating those who had the poor judgement to not be born normal, or indeed anything about them.
pepperedfox
who's this n00b??
Good sir, abortion is one of the most safest operations performed in the medical field. Legal abortions are safe. Illegal abortions are not. The chances of a woman dying from legal abortions are slim.
I'm definitely pro-choice. A person should have a choice on whether or not they should have a child. Not all people who get abortions are rape victims. No, some of them are people who have been pressured into sex or having the unfortunate mishap of that small chance of an accidental pregnancy while having sex with condoms. Not all women are meant to be mothers. And can you imagine how hard it must be emotionally for a woman to simply give away a child for adoption? People offer that option like it's something easy, like you can just drop off a child like some canned food.
All in all, I'm pro-choice.
phatcat203
I'm back. Woot.
Hmm. Well, After I reply to Psychic, whom I believe to be the only one here who really understands that a debate shouldn't be a circular "You're wrong, I'm right" discussion, I'm out, as that is exactly what this has become.
Men CAN "become pregnant" in a way. There are pills and all such that allow them to experience the same things that a pregnant woman does, including weights. Now, I'm not saying that every man will or even should do this, but it is possible and in this way, a man can truly understand what the woman is going through. And childbirth is, contrary to popular belief, not the most intense pain one can sustain. Pain can be intense enough to kill. Most women nowadays do not die of the PAIN from childbirth, it's usually blood loss and other complications. I myself cannot empathize with this pain, as I have always suffered from a mild condition that somewhat impedes my nervous system. This slightly hinders my ability to feel cold, heat, and pain, among other things like a slight loss of taste, as the signals are interrupted.
Now, my response is fairly simple. Psychic, I never said that any of the things mentioned should impact your decision, only that, for some, they do.
It's true that the right to life does not discriminate, but you cannot say that the ones choosing whether to grant or not to do so do not. Every living being is judgmental. That never falters. The right to life does not and cannot choose to kill or save, that is up to the potential savior. And this person may discriminate if they believe that the baby is evil from the start versus good.
Me personally? Yes, I would choose to save the man/woman.child. That is impaired by my condition, as I would not have to suffer quite as much as average, but my decision stands. There is one thing, however. Pregnant women are not bed-ridden during the entire pregnancy. Therefore, I would encourage you to be a little more realistic. As in, extremely nauseous, bloated and all such for nine months, with about a total of 3-6 weeks in bed.
While it's true that regret exists in all parts of our lives, there are very few forms of it that are as big as life and death matters. Your friend (unless they are very stubborn and self-conscious) will forgive you, that loan will not kill you and you can pay it off (unless it's from the mafia) later. However, there is no way to "go back" on this decision. You cannot rectify it if you decide to change your mind later on. The baby is dead. Yes, you can have another, but my mother had a bay (it would have been my elder by one year) die in the womb at four months, and while she had me later, she has admitted to me that she wonders to this day what that baby would have been like, and what it would have done with its life.
And, though I'm atheist, I can see where you are coming from. However, Eve was biased towards the fruit by Lucifer. Had that snake not interfered, she may have made a different choice.
I never said that the parents had to see the children, only that they could if they wanted to. I have adopted cousins, and while I have no idea whether their parents wish to see them(they are not related, by the way), I know that my cousins long to know them. In this way, I know that adoptions are not perfect, but it offers the baby life, at the least.
I never said anything about contraceptives in my post, so I assume that's for the current discussion. However, melatonin birth control pills have so far been shown to be entirely safe. Then there's the "copper T," which is a barrier placed inside the uterus, which is mostly safe and can only be removed by a doctor. Yes, these are the responsibility of the woman, but, if it prevents accidental pregnancy or rape-pregnancy, I believe that they should at least consider them.
As I stated previously, this now bores me, as it is no longer a debate and is instead filled with silly posts with no cognitive thought implemented into them. Goodbye.
Men CAN "become pregnant" in a way. There are pills and all such that allow them to experience the same things that a pregnant woman does, including weights. Now, I'm not saying that every man will or even should do this, but it is possible and in this way, a man can truly understand what the woman is going through. And childbirth is, contrary to popular belief, not the most intense pain one can sustain. Pain can be intense enough to kill. Most women nowadays do not die of the PAIN from childbirth, it's usually blood loss and other complications. I myself cannot empathize with this pain, as I have always suffered from a mild condition that somewhat impedes my nervous system. This slightly hinders my ability to feel cold, heat, and pain, among other things like a slight loss of taste, as the signals are interrupted.
Now, my response is fairly simple. Psychic, I never said that any of the things mentioned should impact your decision, only that, for some, they do.
It's true that the right to life does not discriminate, but you cannot say that the ones choosing whether to grant or not to do so do not. Every living being is judgmental. That never falters. The right to life does not and cannot choose to kill or save, that is up to the potential savior. And this person may discriminate if they believe that the baby is evil from the start versus good.
Me personally? Yes, I would choose to save the man/woman.child. That is impaired by my condition, as I would not have to suffer quite as much as average, but my decision stands. There is one thing, however. Pregnant women are not bed-ridden during the entire pregnancy. Therefore, I would encourage you to be a little more realistic. As in, extremely nauseous, bloated and all such for nine months, with about a total of 3-6 weeks in bed.
While it's true that regret exists in all parts of our lives, there are very few forms of it that are as big as life and death matters. Your friend (unless they are very stubborn and self-conscious) will forgive you, that loan will not kill you and you can pay it off (unless it's from the mafia) later. However, there is no way to "go back" on this decision. You cannot rectify it if you decide to change your mind later on. The baby is dead. Yes, you can have another, but my mother had a bay (it would have been my elder by one year) die in the womb at four months, and while she had me later, she has admitted to me that she wonders to this day what that baby would have been like, and what it would have done with its life.
And, though I'm atheist, I can see where you are coming from. However, Eve was biased towards the fruit by Lucifer. Had that snake not interfered, she may have made a different choice.
I never said that the parents had to see the children, only that they could if they wanted to. I have adopted cousins, and while I have no idea whether their parents wish to see them(they are not related, by the way), I know that my cousins long to know them. In this way, I know that adoptions are not perfect, but it offers the baby life, at the least.
I never said anything about contraceptives in my post, so I assume that's for the current discussion. However, melatonin birth control pills have so far been shown to be entirely safe. Then there's the "copper T," which is a barrier placed inside the uterus, which is mostly safe and can only be removed by a doctor. Yes, these are the responsibility of the woman, but, if it prevents accidental pregnancy or rape-pregnancy, I believe that they should at least consider them.
As I stated previously, this now bores me, as it is no longer a debate and is instead filled with silly posts with no cognitive thought implemented into them. Goodbye.