Abortion, Right or Wrong?

[ChedWick]

And a kick to the groin can scar and make the man parts curved where the scar tissue is, go ahead and tell me thats better then frikin strech marks!!!

There's a great deal more to child birth than stretch marks my young child.

 

[~dave]

I'm pro-choice, considering a foetus isn't even conscious until around 20 weeks. After 20 weeks, however, it should only be aborted if it puts the woman's life at risk.

So we can kill people who are in a coma. Nice logic.

 

[mattj]

Probably waaaaaaaay too late, but...

We learned in highschool and college biology in the first chapters of our book that there were certain requirements that any thing had to meet to be called a "living organism". This was stuff like the inherent ability to reproduce itself, and the ability to break down other substances to create energy, and so on. Later in the chapter on reproduction and chilbirth, it didn't say it all in one paragraph, but throughout the chapter it did note here and there that pretty soon after conception the fetus meets each of these requirements.

You can argue each point individually, but if that general idea is true then the fetus is alive just like you and me, although greatly underdeveloped (not unlike how a newborn is underdeveloped compared to a 20 year old). And if that's true, then no one person has the right to end it's life.

At least that's the way it appears to me (leaving the religious argument out because that only applies if you're religious :/ )

 

[~dave]

The Constitution also does not state a right to have an abortion.

 

[pokedexfiller]

wrong. its that simple. to me its murder. abortion should only be allowed if it affects the mothers survival

 

[ImJessieTR]

So we can kill people who are in a coma. Nice logic.

While I'm against just offing someone "just" in a coma, there are instances where people just aren't going to snap out of it. If a team of doctors agree that they're never going to function again, we shouldn't keep their bodies alive just because some people never learned how to cope with death.

We learned in highschool and college biology in the first chapters of our book that there were certain requirements that any thing had to meet to be called a "living organism". This was stuff like the inherent ability to reproduce itself, and the ability to break down other substances to create energy, and so on. Later in the chapter on reproduction and chilbirth, it didn't say it all in one paragraph, but throughout the chapter it did note here and there that pretty soon after conception the fetus meets each of these requirements.

But we kill living things all the time. This view is pretty consistent if you belong to a religion that is pretty hardcore about even avoiding killing mosquitos and stuff, but no one else is that way. So, it's not just that it's "alive" that would give it rights. I view the cutoff for "personhood" as "capable of rational thought and self-identity". Many animals are capable of the first and way fewer can do both, humans included.

Based on everything I've learned over 30 years, biology and psychology just simply don't give what's in the womb rational thought and self-identity. The latter doesn't even kick in until 1-2 years after birth. However, the Constitution says you gotta be born in order to count (or naturalized). We view our "beginning" as our BIRTH date, not the date of our conception, since only one of those is obvious and concrete. So, while science can't really back up arguments of sentience, and I hate to use an argument of tradition, but legally we use birth as the dividing line. I've heard from other posters that some states consider the date of conception as evidence of personhood, but they have no evidence to back up such a theory AND if true, they could only be logically consistent if they changed all of the documentation to use such a conception date instead of the birth date, making all of their citizens roughly 7-9 months older than they are.

 

[~dave]

I thin there's a difference between a mosquito and a human being.

 

[dracoburn]

if u were a teenage mother and the father refuses 2 take any responsibility, u might not feel quite so pro-life. if u ask me, it should b legal so long as its in the 1st trimester, b4 the brains developed and it cant feel pain or emotions yet.
my biggest argument towards abortion is that a good deal of deaths of teenage girls r from suicide and other not-so-bright methods of trying 2 shed this problem. girls often try 2 force a miscarriage by jumping off a roof, downing bottles of ex-lax or, um, using coat hangers... its better if they do it a safe way.

 

[~dave]

Ever heard of adoption and not getting knocked up?

 

[Carlisle]

Ever heard of adoption and not getting knocked up?

Ever heard that adoption isn't some miracle program, where millions of children will go un adopted? Ever heard of how saying not to have sex is illogical and the concept of abstinence fails?

 

[~dave]

Ever heard that adoption isn't some miracle program, where millions of children will go un adopted? Ever heard of how saying not to have sex is illogical and the concept of abstinence fails?

1. At least they're not dead.
2. It's called personal responsibility.

 

[Fused]

1. At least they're not dead.
2. It's called personal responsibility.

1. If they're killed as a fetus, they can't tell the difference between lfie and death because these fetuses are as alive as a person in a coma.
2. Pregnancy prevention doesn't always work. personal responsibility does fail sometimes.

 

[ImJessieTR]

I think there's a difference between a mosquito and a human being

The minute you start describing those differences, the ones that make us have a right to life and other lifeforms don't, I'll be happy to listen. A zygote is as sentient as an amoeba or a sponge. Unless you also believe a unicellular organism can be sentient, there really is no other difference.

1. If they're killed as a fetus, they can't tell the difference between lfie and death because these fetuses are as alive as a person in a coma

But, see, the issue really isn't "life". Humans don't act as though JUST being alive is all that it takes to have rights. You have to comply with other criteria.

 

[Starlight Aurate]

As i've said if every woman who got pregnant by accident had her baby then there would be a large amount of abused and unwanted children, abortion keeps the already too high population down.

So you're worried about the population and that's why abortion is necessary? If people are going to kill their babies just to keep the population down they might as well get rid of themselves while their at it.

what do people that are pro-life have to say about aborting babies with diseases?

If a child has down syndrome should it be aborted?

Absolutely not. Even if it will be disabled mentally or physically it has a right to live just as much as any other human. They may be more different, but they can love and deserved to be loved and have rights.

 

[~dave]

We rule the world, not animals.

 

[Requiem's Eclipse]

The minute you start describing those differences, the ones that make us have a right to life and other lifeforms don't, I'll be happy to listen. A zygote is as sentient as an amoeba or a sponge. Unless you also believe a unicellular organism can be sentient, there really is no other difference..

Well, a sponge technically has no brain or nervous system so it's not a sentient as one may think. It's only classified as an animal because it's ability to eat and reproduce a tad of topic but whatever.

 

[Fused]

We rule the world, not animals.

What does that have anything to do with abortion? The world probably would've been a better place without us anyway.

 

[Farmermon]

We rule the world, not animals.

this is the most IGNORANT thing i have every heard. i think all humans deserve to die for thinking that specific reason. Tell me something, HAVE YOU EVER BEEN AN ANIMAL???? how do you know that they don't think? how do you if they feel angry that we just come in with machines cuz we are to lazy to do things for ourselves and clear out there land and build a large mansion for a rich person???? scientists claim their brains aren't as smart, but just cuz the brain is smaller in some areas makes no difference! compare a desktop to a laptop... they can do the same exact thing pretty much except one is smaller! basically the same way a brain could work, stop worrying about yourself for once and think about something else besides you!

Now regarding abortion... since we kill all the animals whats the difference of killing a fetus?

 

[Starlight Aurate]

Now regarding abortion... since we kill all the animals whats the difference of killing a fetus?

A fetus will become a human, something an animal will never be. And do you honestly beleive animals rule the world? I do think they ought to be here because it's their planet as much as ours but they are not above humans.

 

[SnorlaxInSlacks]

We rule the world, not animals.

We are animals.