Abortion - Under what circumstances should it be allowed?

[Falsetto]

Every situation is different. Other people may handle it better than your friend is. If the parent blames the child, then there would be more issues than if the parent was loving and supportive of the child.

If there is ANYTHING that I am firm on is the parent should NEVER blame the child. The child innocent. I just believe the choice should always be there. I have just been in and out of the CPS/Foster Care offices too many times to think abortion should be illegal. Those poor kids do not deserve that. And those awful people (their parents) shouldn't have had them. There are too many kids out there that frankly, no one wants. They are troubled and broken and get worse and worse. And we are getting into an era where children are becoming hated and unwanted because this current system forces a violent and dark cycle. I have rushed to the ER because one of my foster kids was released to her mother. The abuse started immediately. She had bruises all over her face and chest. She jumped out the window to escape her mother. That whole night was a nightmare. How many children go through this type of abuse and worse? Get abandoned or worse because they were unwanted? The adoption rate is getting lower and lower while the amount of children needing love and help gets larger. Something HAS to be done to stop this. And I feel that no matter what side you are on, what your beliefs are, your hands are going to be covered in dirt and innocent blood either way.

 

[Falsetto]

Also to the earlier comment "keep your legs closed". I found that to be VERY rude and immature. Listen here kid. Unless your legs are that of a titanium android they are NOT going to keep the rapist away. I understand this site is about Pokemon and there will be a lot of children here but you really should try to keep your opinions neutral at least until you learn more. And since this certain commentator was a boy (I refuse to name drop) I suggest he speak to his mother and get a bigger perspective of what's going on. Also I'm not going to pretend being 15+ means anything. You are still a child that has a lot to learn. I'm only 23 and still learning myself. And speaking as a victim your comment was very hurtful because I did not have a choice as you so callously assumed. Please consider what you say more broadly and enlighten yourself on the topic first as well. Thank you.

 

[Steampunk]

My friend is a rape baby. His mother refused to abort. So she dealt with it. He was devastated when he found out. He's depressed, has family problems, and has, on several occasions, contemplated suicide. He wishes he was never born. I hate seeing him like this. So, is it really that good for the sake of the child? When they grow up to be like this? She only kept him because of her (religious) beliefs. Now look.

I was not a rape-baby(to the best of my knowledge), but I am the result of an unwanted pregnancy at the very least. And you know what? I'm happy to be alive.

Ansem, have you ever ONCE asked an actual woman's opinion on this? Whether she would be willing to accept a pregnancy that was forced upon her for the sake of the child?

No, I have not. But unwanted pregnancies happen all the time, and the amount of children up for adoption attest to the fact that some mother would prefer to give the child up after birth rather than abort it. And as I'm sure you remember, I am one of those.

also are you kidding me? no i absolutely would not be perfectly fine after giving a kidney to someone else. it's a major surgery that carries a lot of risks with it and the life expectancy is lower than someone who had never donated, there is a reason we are almost all born with 2 kidneys; 1 isnt usually enough to filter out all the waste as effectively. do you know anything about organ donation at all?

I said most likely. Admittedly, I'm no expert in the field of transplants, but I do know several people who have had transplants. From what I've read online, Kidney transplants are very safe, and most of the negative effects are not even on the donor, but rather, the person getting the Kidney.

Now, I suppose you cannot force someone to give a kidney. But say it was a child that needed a kidney, and only the mother had the power to give it? Now, I guess you couldn't force the mother to give that kidney, but don't expect me to approve of letting the child die.

and refusing to donate to someone is not the same as involuntary manslaughter at all.. i really don't get what you are trying to argue because it makes no sense.

No, not the same. Similar...possibly.

 

[LDSman]

LDS, I asked if HE had spoken to any.

I provided a link to women who have publically spoken out about keeping and loving the child that was conceived through rape.

You want a Spock to have spoken to such a person directly AND a link proving so?

Making really strict requirements there.

Falsetto

While people claim that abortion would keep the incidents of child abuse down, that has not been proven statistically. Some abusers want victims to abuse, others don't see it as abuse, others didn't intend to become abusers, others wanted the welfare money, etc.

 

[Maedar]

No, I have not. But unwanted pregnancies happen all the time, and the amount of children up for adoption attest to the fact that some mother would prefer to give the child up after birth rather than abort it. And as I'm sure you remember, I am one of those.

The "unwanted pregnancies" you speak of are usually the result of consensual sex without birth control. We're talking about when the sex is not consensual and forced. (Which is what rape is.)

It does not matter if the attacker is someone the victim knows. That does NOT make it all right!

And until you give me proof that you have spoken to a woman who would accept this burden, please do not assume.

 

[LDSman]

The "unwanted pregnancies" you speak of are usually the result of consensual sex without birth control. We're talking about when the sex is not consensual and forced. (Which is what rape is.)

It does not matter if the attacker is someone the victim knows. That does NOT make it all right!

And until you give me proof that you have spoken to a woman who would accept this burden, please do not assume.

So a link to a website where women have expressed their opinions on keeping a child from rape doesn't count because it wasn't in person?

 

[Maedar]

I read your website. It's interesting, but I hesitate to fully trust a site that admits to being Christian based and offer no opposing views.

However, those women made their choices with no government intervention.

I also found this, written by an actual primary care physician:

http://www.usccb.org/about/pro-life...-Life-Matters-Pregnancy-From-Rape-secured.pdf

It does back up your claim somewhat but it does not say abortion should be outlawed. While it does say that that the percentage of rape victims who have aborted their pregnancies is about the same as the percentage of abortions in general, if disagrees with Akin completely.

Read the part about it "not being a sex crime", and "there are no typical victims", and especially, the second sentence of the second paragraph.

The author seems to make the statement that pro-choice proponents all make: It should be up to the woman, her family, and her doctor. Not the government. PERIOD.

Edit: I found a review of the work of that pro-life woman who wrote the article you linked to?

http://scathingatheist.com/2011/05/31/mississippis-conceived-in-rape-tour/

Not very flattering.

 

[LDSman]

I read your website. It's interesting, but I hesitate to fully trust a site that admits to being Christian based and offer no opposing views.

News flash. No one is required to provide an opposing view on their website.

I also found this, written by an actual primary care physician:

http://www.usccb.org/about/pro-life...-Life-Matters-Pregnancy-From-Rape-secured.pdf

It does back up your claim somewhat but it does not say abortion should be outlawed. While it does say that that the percentage of rape victims who have aborted their pregnancies is about the same as the percentage of abortions in general, if disagrees with Akin completely.

Read the part about it "not being a sex crime", and "there are no typical victims", and especially, the second sentence of the second paragraph.

The author seems to make the statement that pro-choice proponents all make: It should be up to the woman, her family, and her doctor. Not the government. PERIOD.

It also points how uninformed a lot of pro-abortion people are.

Second page: The Abortion Solution

And see the 2nd paragraph on the first page. "Abortion advocates exploit...."

 

[Maedar]

Okay, LDS, answer me this:

What if the victim was your daughter? If it was your 14-year-old daughter?

Would you be so eager to force her to carry the child?

 

[Navin]

It also points how uninformed a lot of pro-abortion people are.

Second page: The Abortion Solution

And see the 2nd paragraph on the first page. "Abortion advocates exploit...."

Clearly a pro-forced birth supporter is going to have an unbiased view about abortion advocates, smh. And it doesn't even matter what the results of her "survey" that she conducted say. At least 5 people among that small sample size still opted for abortion. They shouldn't be denied that option.

If you get pregnant from not using birth control or by getting raped, if you don't agree with abortion, then by all means, continue carrying that fetus. Nobody is going to stop you. But don't deny others who do not feel the same way as you.

 

[MuhFugginMoose]

I don't think anyone here is "Pro-Abortion".

There's a difference between "Pro-Choice" and "Pro-Abortion". A HUGE one.

 

[LDSman]

Okay, LDS, answer me this:

What if the victim was your daughter? If it was your 14-year-old daughter?

Would you be so eager to force her to carry the child?

I hope that I'd have raised my daughter well enough to recognize that abortion kills a person that did her no harm. Past that? It'd be a family matter to be decided upon if it ever happened.

Clearly a pro-forced birth supporter is going to have an unbiased view about abortion advocates, smh. And it doesn't even matter what the results of her "survey" that she conducted say. At least 5 people among that small sample size still opted for abortion. They shouldn't be denied that option.

If you get pregnant from not using birth control or by getting raped, if you don't agree with abortion, then by all means, continue carrying that fetus. Nobody is going to stop you. But don't deny others who do not feel the same way as you.

They also regretted having the abortion.

I don't think anyone here is "Pro-Abortion".

There's a difference between "Pro-Choice" and "Pro-Abortion". A HUGE one.

If pro-forced birth doesn't get an objection, then pro-abortion should not.

 

[Peter Quill]

If pro-forced birth doesn't get an objection, then pro-abortion should not.

Except that Pro-forced birth isn't a lie.

What in allowing a woman the choice of abortion means that someone is advocating that women abort?

 

[LDSman]

Except that Pro-forced birth isn't a lie.

What in allowing a woman the choice of abortion means that someone is advocating that women abort?

Because all too often, it's presented as a false choice. Vulnerable woman who only get part of the information. Who often get lied to. Child might have mental/physical issues? Better abort, you won't have any kind of a life. Single parent? Better abort, you won't have any kind of a life. Too young, too old? Same response. Poor? Same response. How many places that handle abortions send people who are unsure to the other group? Pro-life group wants to hand out support literature about their pregnacy centers? Sue them and get an RO so they can't come near your clinic. There was an attempt to change internet listings so that pro-life places would not show up ahead of abortion clinics. A clinic gets a bad rep for cleanliness or illegal behaviors? Hush it up and ignore it. Keep referring women there.

Stick to the claim that it's just a clump of cells. Don't tell people that it may be moving on it's own and has fingers and a face.

And since it probably bears repeating. I don't support or believe in abortion. I can understand that in specific cases, one is necessary to prevent both from dying. I would not object to that. If someone wants one, I will not stop them. But I will not aid them in getting one, nor will I support laws or policies that encourage it.

 

[Maedar]

It was a yes-no question, and he dodged to completely.

Of course no-one wants to make that choice, but anyone who supports outlawing abortion should answer it, IMOHO.

 

[The Federation]

Because all too often, it's presented as a false choice. Vulnerable woman who only get part of the information. Who often get lied to.

And it's mostly by Republican lead movements. Forced intra-vaginal examinations, multiple screens, and "education on child rearing" are among the blockades women have to face.

Stick to the claim that it's just a clump of cells. Don't tell people that it may be moving on it's own and has fingers and a face.

You are so backwards. In this country today, we see far more "here is your baby, look at the screens, let us tell you how babies are okay even for the most downtrodden members of society" than "man, this... fetus thing is going to really mess you up, get rid of it". Point being, more often we have state hosted and sponsored guilt trips set in place for potential mothers than pats on the back from abortion providers who have targets painted on theirs.

And since it probably bears repeating. I don't support or believe in abortion. I can understand that in specific cases, one is necessary to prevent both from dying. I would not object to that. If someone wants one, I will not stop them. But I will not aid them in getting one, nor will I support laws or policies that encourage it.

How about laws or policies that make it possible? More and more we are seeing these laws crop up that limit or completely prohibit abortions from ever occurring.

 

[LDSman]

It was a yes-no question, and he dodged to completely.

Of course no-one wants to make that choice, but anyone who supports outlawing abortion should answer it, IMOHO.

It was a "do you still beat your wife" question.

I say yes, you can say "oh what a horrible person you are! You'd force a child to carry to term her rapist's child!!!" I say no and you'd say "what a hypocrite! You'd allow your daughter to get an abortion but no one else?!? You're a horrible person!"

 

[The Federation]

I say yes, you can say "oh what a horrible person you are! You'd force a child to carry to term her rapist's child!!!" I say no and you'd say "what a hypocrite! You'd allow your daughter to get an abortion but no one else?!? You're a horrible person!"

It's only a loaded question... because you fail to understand the implications of your answer. Most people would understand that, when you are forced to choose hypocrisy or immorality, something is wrong with the position you have adopted. Think about that for a bit, yeah?

 

[LDSman]

It's only a loaded question... because you fail to understand the implications of your answer. Most people would understand that, when you are forced to choose hypocrisy or immorality, something is wrong with the position you have adopted. Think about that for a bit, yeah?

Bull. It was trick question all the way.

"What would I do if my 14 yr old daughter was pregnant?" is a question that is not loaded. Answer. Best case scenario, it's an addition to the family in some manner. Lives with us or lives with relatives. Worst case? Placed for adoption with a loving family.

Maeder's question? Would you be so eager to force her to carry the child? That is nothing but loaded.

 

[Maedar]

Know what my answer to the question would be?

I'd be there to comfort her and lend advice, but I would above all, leave it up to her and our pediatrician. I would never force this sort of decision on her, either way.