• We're currently experiencing a minor issue with our email system preventing emails for new registrations and verifications going out. We're currently working to fix this
  • Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
  • If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders

About Iris’ two controversial Pokémon....

Sham

redeemed hero and true friend
What did you think about Axew not evolving and Dragonite being caught in the first place?
 

shoz999

Sure, sure. Go for it.
What did you think about Axew not evolving and Dragonite being caught in the first place?
When I saw the Axew doing some damage to Cynthia's Garchomp and Iris automatically getting a Dragonite, I thought to myself, that's some OP bullshit.

But in all seriousness. It seems like the anime largely had absolutely no clue what to do with Iris's goal as of a Dragon Master. Gen 5 has some great dragon-types and Champion Iris's team also has the popular Kanto Pokemon, Lapras. I wonder if the anime crew ever regrets giving Iris a fear of ice-types since GameFreak decided to give her a Lapras? So what did they do? They probably left Axew unevolved for the cute marketing factor, same reason why they gave her Emolga, and instantaneously gave her the Kanto favorite Dragonite because the series was pretty late at that point and they probably realized her Dragon Master goal doesn't make a lot of sense to even children with just one unevolved dragon-type. Although I do wonder why the anime crew decided to gave Iris an Excadrill? That one is odd because it doesn't have the cute marketing factor, a nostalgic factor so I guess the only reason they gave her one is because they thought Excadrill looked cool?

Like be honest guys. Why Excadrill? There are a 156 Gen V Pokemon they could've chosen and I'm sure many of you guys know is that the Pokemon anime crew don't just pick random favorites, they pick Pokemon for the marketing value to children such as cuteness, nostalgia and coolness but Excadrill which is not a dragon-type? I think Excadrill is a very cool-looking Pokemon but just because I think that doesn't mean others would think that. Doesn't that just grab your curiousity as to why they would pick Excadrill?
 
Last edited:

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
It was at least the ENTIRE POINT with Dragonite, that she got it by chance and hadn't tamed it and ultimately any success she made with it wasn't her own until she did put in that effort. I have no problem with protagonists getting strong Pokemon so long they don't exist solely as a short cut or to make them cheaply OP. Dragonite was intentionally designed as a deconstruction of that since Iris was completely out of her comfort zone with it. And amusingly right now with protagonists having mythicals like Melmetal and Shaymin, Dragonite kind of seems small scale anyway.

So while one was a clear case of plot armour, the other one was at least an actual subversion of it.
 

shoz999

Sure, sure. Go for it.
It was at least the ENTIRE POINT with Dragonite, that she got it by chance and hadn't tamed it and ultimately any success she made with it wasn't her own until she did put in that effort. I have no problem with protagonists getting strong Pokemon so long they don't exist solely as a short cut or to make them cheaply OP. Dragonite was intentionally designed as a deconstruction of that since Iris was completely out of her comfort zone with it. And amusingly right now with protagonists having mythicals like Melmetal and Shaymin, Dragonite kind of seems small scale anyway.

So while one was a clear case of plot armour, the other one was at least an actual subversion of it.
If I understand this correctly, your saying Dragonite's entire point is to show that even when there is a shortcut, there's no such thing as an easy shortcut right?
 
If Iris catching Dragonite is still controversial then Ash catching a mythical and legendary is much worse than that imo.

Also I have doubts that Axew was ever going to evolve in the first place.
 

shoz999

Sure, sure. Go for it.
If Iris catching Dragonite is still controversial then Ash catching a mythical and legendary is much worse than that imo.

Also I have doubts that Axew was ever going to evolve in the first place.
Curious. If Ash catching a mythical and legendary are much worst, how does that make Dragonite's role less-worst for some people?
 

ash&charizardfan

Humans are tools
What did you think about Axew not evolving and Dragonite being caught in the first place?
Axew was too marketable so it did not evolve, whereas iris worked hard with dragonite s she totally deserved it lol i could say dawn's togekiss was totally undeserved but ince it was part of DP hypocrites wont dare to speak.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
If I understand this correctly, your saying Dragonite's entire point is to show that even when there is a shortcut, there's no such thing as an easy shortcut right?
Right. Iris didn't start from scratch with Dragonite, but that had repercussions since Dragonite being unruly and disobedient fully evolved was much more turbulent.

Curious. If Ash catching a mythical and legendary are much worst, how does that make Dragonite's role less-worst for some people?
Truthfully I'm not bothered with Ash catching mythicals on paper, just saying Dragonite is even tamer in execution. There's times a character got an unearned evolution or move learn that bugged me more since there was no effort made there and that was not for in-universe plot reasons. I think that's the reason Axew's handling is annoying because it spent most of its time as an untrained baby and yet whenever it was forced to battle it kept getting convenient boosts to make it strong when it needed to. Those kept driving the moments Iris was meant to prove herself.

And hell I like seeing rare Pokemon get a turn as main characters really, especially when the focus is actually on their personality and bonds with their trainers.
 
Last edited:

TheWanderingMist

Kanae, Keeper of the Gates Emblazoned
What did you think about Axew not evolving and Dragonite being caught in the first place?
Axew not evolving...animator's fault because they didn't want to draw it since it would be out all the time basically.

Dragonite...should've come as a Dragonair at highest so she could actually evolve a dang Pokemon.
 

TheWanderingMist

Kanae, Keeper of the Gates Emblazoned

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Simple, she actually bonded and worked hard with Dragonite while Ash hardly bonded with Poipole and yet it randomly comes back fully evolved with Ash not doing any work with it.
Yeah, I admit I'm kind of wary about how they'll go about that one. I mean Ash at least bothered to figure out Meltan a few times (and Melmetal's inexperience did still show despite being powerful), but Poipole has no excuse, Ash BONDED with it at least but he genuinely did no training with it outside one brief instance.
 

shoz999

Sure, sure. Go for it.
It was at least the ENTIRE POINT with Dragonite, that she got it by chance and hadn't tamed it and ultimately any success she made with it wasn't her own until she did put in that effort. I have no problem with protagonists getting strong Pokemon so long they don't exist solely as a short cut or to make them cheaply OP. Dragonite was intentionally designed as a deconstruction of that since Iris was completely out of her comfort zone with it. And amusingly right now with protagonists having mythicals like Melmetal and Shaymin, Dragonite kind of seems small scale anyway.

So while one was a clear case of plot armour, the other one was at least an actual subversion of it.
Simple, she actually bonded and worked hard with Dragonite while Ash hardly bonded with Poipole and yet it randomly comes back fully evolved with Ash not doing any work with it.
I don't like Dragonite's role but I will admit that you guys bring up a really convincing point for the dragon that can't be easily ignored. With that being said, what do you guys think of Axew?
 

AznKei

Team girls in Trials Of Mana FTW! XD
Didn't find Axew controversial. It's cute and marketable just like Dawn's Piplup. I did find Dragonite controversial, just like Dawn's Togekiss which mean that any companions could get powerful Pokemons if the producers demanded them, regardless how much time/bond they spent with them. As for Ash, yes it's annoying that he gets the special Pokemons but what we're gonna do about it? He's the MC of the anime after all...
 

Doppelgänger

Superancient Member
Axew didn't deserve to evolve. It battled less than Scraggy, who was younger than it, and never trained. It literally arsepulled Outrage and Giga Impact against opponents far superior to it. Axew's purpose was to visually represent Iris' growth as a trainer, and she barely grew in Best Wishes. Her major step forward was figuring out how to get Excadrill and Dragonite to listen to her, yet her battle skill remained lacking; this was on full display in her Gym Battle against Clair.

As for Iris herself, she was intended as a homage to Kanto Ash, rather than a remake of Misty. Iris and Kanto Ash have similar personalities and went through similar story arcs with their Pokemon. If you disagree, watch OS again and pay attention to how many times Ash insults Misty unprovoked: Misty was confrontational and physically abusive, while Kanto Ash and Iris were both passive aggressive and sarcastic. They were also both overconfident despite being inexperienced, and had to overcome growing pains with disobedient Pokemon (Charizard/Primeape and Excadrill/Dragonite).

People compare her to Misty because her goal as a "Type Master" is superficially similar, and she's female. But she's much closer to Kanto Ash and is the only main character to have any personal growth in Unova. The only other character with a significant change was...Trip!
 

game3524

Well-Known Member
Axew was too marketable so it did not evolve, whereas iris worked hard with dragonite s she totally deserved it lol i could say dawn's togekiss was totally undeserved but ince it was part of DP hypocrites wont dare to speak.
Yeah, Dawn's is likely my favorite among the girls. But Togekiss was BS and one of the biggest examples of marketing driving the plot. I never had a problem with Iris catching Dragonite since she couldn't really handle it and it did the opposite of making her OP, but actually highlighted her inexperience (similarly to Ash with Charizard in Kanto and Dawn with Mamoswine in DP).
 

Ignition

Love when the mods can’t do their jobs properly
Both were boring wastes of screentime. Axew should’ve been at least a Fraxure and Dragonite should’ve been a Deino/Hydreigon.

Ironic that her non Dragon Types were more enjoyable.
 

ash&charizardfan

Humans are tools
Well its controversial because few people think that iris shouldn't have gotten a fully evolved dragon type even though she worked hard with it and had issues controlling it, whereas dawn gets a pass for handed over togekiss which also had issues but was magically resolved in just one episode because according to DP cirlclejerkers DP series cannot make any mistake.
 
Top