• Hi all. We have had reports of member's signatures being edited to include malicious content. You can rest assured this wasn't done by staff and we can find no indication that the forums themselves have been compromised.

    However, remember to keep your passwords secure. If you use similar logins on multiple sites, people and even bots may be able to access your account.

    We always recommend using unique passwords and enable two-factor authentication if possible. Make sure you are secure.
  • Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
  • If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders

About Serena, Palermo and change of plans

Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang
Ok, since we are on hiatus with new content for the show, I've suddently found myself remembering some of the things we've seen already.

Specifically, I'm talking about Serena's goal and Palermo's role on getting Serena to decide her past post-series.

Serena's goal on XY always intrigued me. Back in the day, I've always felt she'd end up as a coordinator. The setup just seemed perfect: she was unsure of her goal just like May was and with the potential of Gen 3 remakes - which you did end up getting - it'd completly fitting if May just randomly showed up and inspired Serena to take contests the same way she's been inspired by that coordinator-whose-name-I-forgot-and-won't-bother-to-search in the past.

Then, they came with showcases that in the end just seemed a discount version of the contests' appeal round thus closer to the game!contests.

Flashforward the remaining episodes of XY, we got Palermo ending up suggesting to Serena to take on contests. So in the end, she basically did what me - and maybe more people - thought she'd do even if it wasn't quite the way we'd expect to happen.

On my reflection, Palermo's reasoning for suggest a jump to contests seems odd. Sure, they are similar but why suggest a carreer that while similar has enough distinctions to be called "different things"?

Then, I remember.

Back in the final match of Master Class we all had our criticisms of Serena pulling a better show yet still losing to Aria because it's not a pokémon major competition without a dream crusher (expect someone else get Mew before Goh haha)

One of the arguments I've remembered is how Serena was overall technically better while Aria just won duo being popular.

Thinking about that made me realize.

Palermo suggested contests to Serena because she figured out Serena was good at technique and skill. Showcases are glorified popularity competition where the best is the one who gets most popularity and appeal. Serena's major strenght was actually not trusting her own charm and appeal but actually having method and thought.

Not to say that showcases doesn't involve technique and all of that. For idols to sell themselves - that's what they do, don't deny it - they need to have a certain level of skill but here's the thing: some of this can be fabricated by their manager. That's what Palermo did to Aria after all. Yeah, we got flashback of Aria working her butt off but if I recall the flashback correctly, we didn't get to see her doing stuff with her pokémon. It was only Aria herself mostly.

Palermo wanted to sell Aria's image. And by "sell" don't take it the wrong way, it's a kids show after all. Serena thought about her pokémon. Not just about herself. She wanted to show how cool and cute her pokémon are, how they had skills and how she was capable of showing off their potential.

So when Serena ultimately rejected her offer, Palermo figured out Serena wasn't cut for that sort of career. Serena might have wanted that - though I've always felt that she taking on contests was more her being influenced by Shauna than anything else. Like Serena was so unsure what to do she end up pushing herself in a position she was living someone else's goal - but in the end, Serena's call was elsewhere even if she didn't know it. She started off Showcases because someone else tipped her on it but ultimately she learned she'd find her one true call on something similar and more fitting to her actual focus.

Then we got the typical japanese anime trope of listening to their elders 'cause they've lived for longer than you - and this show, Palermo might as well be over 1000 years old if Ash is any indication - and Serena got useful advice from someone else to find a more suitable career.

Yeah, actually Palermo suggested contests as a way for Serena to become a better performer and thus get closer to becoming Kalos Queen but I'm not putting past she banking on Serena finding more contentment with contests and end up settling on them.

The last shot we got from Serena was as much representing her new found self-confidence after finally letting her feelings clear and making her on her ultimate endgoal - Ash - but also she finally having clarity of purporse. Long gone was the girl who was scared of walking a dark forest by herself. Now she is out to make herself a charming lady for a certain oblivious boy. And she also finally found what she wanted to do in the meantime.

TL;DL: Palermo did Serena a favor by basically inducing her to quit a business where the most important thing is popularity and then go doing something more suited for her. Something that's similar but where the most important thing was the one thing Serena choose to make her performances stand out: technique and true skill.

Anyway, those are just my thoughts. Just my theory based on observation and reflection. The truth might be completly different and Yajima might end up giving another interview giving a whole different and never-thought-of explanation.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
This is just my head canon, but I thought that perhaps Yashio knew that Serena would never win Master Class because of how popular Elle was as Kalos's top performer, so Yashio tried to inspire Serena to concentrate on another hobby that was similar to TryPokaron.
 

AznKei

Dawn & Chloe by ddangbi
In my headcanon, Palermo is monitoring Serena during her Hoenn journey, via a hidden camera, and evaluate her skills based on how she fared in Pokemon contests, not only in terms of style or routine, but also how much damage her Pokemons were taking and how fast her opponents/foes could be defeated.

We also learned that Palermo is also a former Top Coordinator and that her skills is above the likes of Dawn, May, Zoey & Drew. She also sent Serena in Hoenn to extend her inflence in multiple regions and she's responsible to create the best students.
 
Last edited:

SatoSereFan224888

Well-Known Member
My head cannon had Serena do a contest, winning it but she hated it. She returned to Malos to become an actress alongside Aria. Palermo actually thought that would be great for both Aria & Serena.
 

Epicocity

Well-Known Member
Um....Serena never quit being a Performer.

She actually explicitly states in the episode where she chooses to go to Hoenn that she's experiencing Contests to improve her Performances. Her goal is, and has always been, to be Kalos Queen. It's why Palermo even states she's looking forward to her return to see her Performance. Not her appeal. Not her new Contest skills. She wants to see how she's grown as a Performer.

Of course, it feeds into Serena's larger goal of wanting to make people happy, with Kalos Queen facilitating that role more directly, but she never abandons that path she chose to walk, and honestly that interpretation of her ditching Showcases to pursue Contests completely would destroy her entire character development if that was the case. She spent so much time finding a dream and then had to deal with her tendency to give up when the going gets hard. If she just switched to a different career, it would put her right back to square one and make all of her struggles and development pointless. Kinda confuses me how people take that interpretation of that scene...
 

Sham

Name a better duo
Serena was all over the place with her goal... her main goal was to become Kalos Queen then going towards the end it was mentioned slowly that she just enjoys making people smile and Showcases were a catalyst to that. Why Palermo suggested she becomes a coordinator is always a mystery and to me tells me the writers knew they f’d up giving us malnourished Contests. This whole “try a completely different goal to shine in your main goal” was weird and terrible advice. It’s almost like telling a Surgeon Doctor they’ll improve by doing a Pharmacist job because it both involves health care. The second part of Contests are completely alien to Showcases and despite sharing the appeal round aspect (which within itself is different) they share not so much.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
SatoSereFan224888 said:
My head cannon had Serena do a contest, winning it but she hated it. She returned to Malos to become an actress alongside Aria. Palermo actually thought that would be great for both Aria & Serena.

Her winning a Contest but disliking the activity doesn't sound reasonable, however. Contests are basically TryPokaron with battling involved, and if she'd win then I find it hard to believe that she'd want to quit since her winning would probably give her more incentive to compete in the future.
 

Jeal

Well-Known Member
The only thing I hate is that we will never see her journey in Hoenn. I mean, too much potential specials. It's a outrage that they gave a special to random characters over her. Clemont and Bonnie got a special, but she didn't. Even Iris got one. She was the female protagonist, she deserved better than that. I wonder if the writers just hated her, considering her treatment.
 
D

Deleted member 384931

Guest
I think Serena left Hoenn already, cause she wants to make People smile around the world. Contests are mostly to make her battle skills better I think. I doubt someone would recognize her in another region.

I guess its hard to make her return, because there are many possibilities. I couldnt think how to handle it myself. But its kinda sad she doesnt got a special. SM girls are kinda difficult go give them a special, cause they are on "vacation" before the school begins again.
 

Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
It should have just been contests to begin with, changing it to contests felt like even the writers hated showcases and wanted to do something different. It was a new concept and they barely spent enough time with it to make one understand how it works apart from "Oh, whoever has the biggest fanbase wins. Thus it's impossible to win as nobody will top Aria for years and years!"

Plus you know, Serena could have had a male rival. Instead of Nene, who was literally the most pointless rival of all time! Seriously, if they needed another rival then why not upgrade Amelia instead and give Serena an Ursula/Harley? This is why I hope Bede gets into PM 2019, all these friend rivals and no jerks since Trip/Georgia/Burgundy is SO aggravating!

And since ORAS was happening, do another Wallace Cup! Would have been cool to see Wallace again along with May/Dawn and some other familiar coordinators, and that is where Serena could lose and have confidence problems instead of all her losses being cause 'accidents lol'

Aria could be the previous GF winner and participating, allowing Serena to actually proceed and beat her in the finale but lose to somebody else like Jessie. Jessie winning could then lead to a "Team Rocket break up" fake out that actually has legitimate merit, Jessie having to choose between her new found fame or continue traveling with James and Meowth on their quest to catch Pikachu!
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
KenzeyEevee said:
I think Serena left Hoenn already, cause she wants to make People smile around the world. Contests are mostly to make her battle skills better I think. I doubt someone would recognize her in another region.

I agree that Serena's popularity in Houen probably wouldn't help her chances of becoming more popular in Kalos even if she were to win the Houen Grand Festival, so it's hard for me to believe that Yashio's recommendation that Serena visit Houen was meant to be an attempt at raising her overall recognition.
 
D

Deleted member 384931

Guest
I agree that Serena's popularity in Houen probably wouldn't help her chances of becoming more popular in Kalos even if she were to win the Houen Grand Festival, so it's hard for me to believe that Yashio's recommendation that Serena visit Houen was meant to be an attempt at raising her overall recognition.
But maybe she gained some popularity in Hoenn as contest star.
I wonder if she would travel alone.
 

Mega Altaria

☆~Shiny hunter▢~
But maybe she gained some popularity in Hoenn as contest star.
I wonder if she would travel alone.
I've been wondering for years about her Contest career in Hoenn and how far she went compared to her Showcase career. All I think is she'll be travelling and doing the Contests with her three Pokémon at least.
 

Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang
Um....Serena never quit being a Performer.

Never said she did.

I've said that Palermo's suggestion might have been a way to induce her to try something more fitting to what she wants to do.

She actually explicitly states in the episode where she chooses to go to Hoenn that she's experiencing Contests to improve her Performances. Her goal is, and has always been, to be Kalos Queen. It's why Palermo even states she's looking forward to her return to see her Performance. Not her appeal. Not her new Contest skills. She wants to see how she's grown as a Performer.

Of course, it feeds into Serena's larger goal of wanting to make people happy, with Kalos Queen facilitating that role more directly, but she never abandons that path she chose to walk, and honestly that interpretation of her ditching Showcases to pursue Contests completely would destroy her entire character development if that was the case. She spent so much time finding a dream and then had to deal with her tendency to give up when the going gets hard. If she just switched to a different career, it would put her right back to square one and make all of her struggles and development pointless. Kinda confuses me how people take that interpretation of that scene...

Not quite.

Speaking of personal experience: I've had dreams for a certain career path and eventually, after starting to studying it, I just realize it was not my thing, quit and end up fighting satisfaction on another career.

It's not as much as "reset to square one" and more as mature by learning more about yourself and your interested.

By the way, it's worthy pointing out the japanese name for the last episode is "endless zero" which is sort of a way to represent the kids would start anew after their Kalos journey.

Honestly I think you put more thought in this than any of the writers or Yajima did. I think they just needed a way to get Serena to travel away from Ash (since she wouldn't be in Sun/Moon), and having her just stay in Kalos to be a performer would be the easy way out. She became a coordinator to improve her skill and would then go back to performing.

Of course I did, hence what I said above about truth potentially turning out to be completly different.

Your theory is the most likely one, I'd say but I highly doubt staff would ever admit it lol

The only thing I hate is that we will never see her journey in Hoenn. I mean, too much potential specials. It's a outrage that they gave a special to random characters over her. Clemont and Bonnie got a special, but she didn't. Even Iris got one. She was the female protagonist, she deserved better than that. I wonder if the writers just hated her, considering her treatment.

I don't think they hated her as much as they could have felt that the last episode was a good enough closure for her and a special would be pointless. Yajima seems like the guy who'd go with this mindset. After all, the second special episode was "The Legend of XY&Z" which had none of the kids.

What I'm saying is: they could have made a special for her but ultimately decided not to. The reason might as well be that they are content with how they concluded her arc and anything else would be redundant.

But to be fair, back in the day, I was hoping she'd get one later in the road (like they did with Iris). But I guess the fact SM had a conflicting aesthetic might have played a role. Either this or they were focused on KANTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO pandering for the anniversary (more reason for me to hate that place/gen/non-Ash characters, I guess).

It should have just been contests to begin with

Agreed.

Plus you know, Serena could have had a male rival. Instead of Nene, who was literally the most pointless rival of all time! Seriously, if they needed another rival then why not upgrade Amelia instead and give Serena an Ursula/Harley? This is why I hope Bede gets into PM 2019, all these friend rivals and no jerks since Trip/Georgia/Burgundy is SO aggravating!

Wait, Nene was a girl?

(kidding, kidding)

As for rivals, well, back during the LGPE days, there were an interview with GF staff where they talk about this and say something in the lines of "back then we had to do this to make rivals stand out but now tech give us more ways to portray the character. Also, things that were seen a certain way those times wouldn't sit well with the audience nowdays". Don't remember the exact quote but it felt like "we want you to find your rivals likeable and not have people hating them and potentially quitting so we made them all nice".

And that might be just a guess but maybe they felt the BW trios weren't well-recieved?

XY did feel like it was trying to course-correct/address the criticisms over things BW did (though I still find the series enjoyable). I could see Trip being very unpopular duo being a Paul-redux. Maybe Georgia and Burgundy end up not being liked by the audience?

You know there are contests in Jotho but we never saw one

Yeah, but at least May had mentioned them on her guest appearance.

I've been wondering for years about her Contest career in Hoenn and how far she went compared to her Showcase career. All I think is she'll be travelling and doing the Contests with her three Pokémon at least.

Well, she might have been a rookie but she still managed to face Aria in the finals. Technically it's the farthest a girl ever went.

I mean, Dawn was a runner one on her first run as well but Aria is technically the showcase's version of Diantha (in a way, of course).

And since Serena showed she could hold her own on a battle when she had faced Ash in the episode where she decided to got to Hoenn, I can see her in the finals, at least. Maybe even winning.
 

Sonnas

Well-Known Member
Wait, Nene was a girl?

(kidding, kidding)

As for rivals, well, back during the LGPE days, there were an interview with GF staff where they talk about this and say something in the lines of "back then we had to do this to make rivals stand out but now tech give us more ways to portray the character. Also, things that were seen a certain way those times wouldn't sit well with the audience nowdays". Don't remember the exact quote but it felt like "we want you to find your rivals likeable and not have people hating them and potentially quitting so we made them all nice".

And that might be just a guess but maybe they felt the BW trios weren't well-recieved?

XY did feel like it was trying to course-correct/address the criticisms over things BW did (though I still find the series enjoyable). I could see Trip being very unpopular duo being a Paul-redux. Maybe Georgia and Burgundy end up not being liked by the audience?
Well personally from what I've seen in the BW series I feel like there weren't anything good to latch on to those rivals as they didn't seem likable, especially Burgundy as she just seemed annoying all the time.
 

Epicocity

Well-Known Member
Never said she did.

I've said that Palermo's suggestion might have been a way to induce her to try something more fitting to what she wants to do.



Not quite.

Speaking of personal experience: I've had dreams for a certain career path and eventually, after starting to studying it, I just realize it was not my thing, quit and end up fighting satisfaction on another career.

It's not as much as "reset to square one" and more as mature by learning more about yourself and your interested.

By the way, it's worthy pointing out the japanese name for the last episode is "endless zero" which is sort of a way to represent the kids would start anew after their Kalos journey.

Except, Serena reiterates how much she loves performing in that very episode. It's not that she fell out of love with it at all. If anything, she fell more in love with and realized it is very much what she wanted to do. That's why she was taking Contests as a chance to learn more for her Performances, not as a career shift.

And if I may, there's a distinct difference in that reality doesn't need to have justification, but fiction often does. In this case, sure, in reality one could decide they don't like a path and abandon it. But in fiction, particularly for Serena, she had a character arc: going from an indecisive girl that quits at the first roadblock to a girl who finds her dream and sticks with it no matter the hardship, becoming the second best Performer in Kalos as a result (which in and of itself can be a whole other discussion).

To then have her divert from being a Performer to being a Coordinator invalidates that particular development because what it says is "I couldn't become Kalos Queen, so I'll become a Top Coordinator instead". In essence that would turn her from an indecisive girl who quits and the first roadblock to...an indecisive girl that quits at the first roadblock. There would be no development. That's why a reading of that scene as her deciding to become a Coordinator is not only incorrect, but would be the worst possible reading for the development path they set her on and accomplished.
 

game3524

Well-Known Member
The only thing I hate is that we will never see her journey in Hoenn. I mean, too much potential specials. It's a outrage that they gave a special to random characters over her. Clemont and Bonnie got a special, but she didn't. Even Iris got one. She was the female protagonist, she deserved better than that. I wonder if the writers just hated her, considering her treatment.

They didn’t hate her. She got closure besides the premise of a special of Serena trying contest isn’t all that interesting. Doing a fun one off story with Cilan, Bonnie, and Clemont was the right idea.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
game3524 said:
They didn’t hate her. She got closure besides the premise of a special of Serena trying contest isn’t all that interesting. Doing a fun one off story with Cilan, Bonnie, and Clemont was the right idea.

Maybe it's simply because I like Contests in the anime, but Serena getting a special episode dedicated to her first Contest right after XY ended would've been preferable over a pointless special that focused on Citron and Dent.
 
Top