Access Cleanout

[Misaki-chi]

Well, originally, I had no intention of posting in this thead; I mentioned this to you, stating the reason that I had VOp access back on DejaToons [not sure how things still stand until Leona finishes off the access list ^^;], and therefore I didn't want to seem like I was sucking up by agreeing so I could protect that status or anything... and I already told you my views, but I guess I'll just post them here as well, if nobody has any objection. n___n;;;

Essentially, I agree; at times, there can be so many VOps it's kinda ridiculous, especially as certain ones virtually never say anything in there, ever. I believe a +v should be a status thing, but that it shouldn't be based solely off popularity; I think it should reflect that the user is a user of good standing among the users of the channel, a user who contributes actively and constructively to the discussion, sets a good example, and assists the staff [without mini-modding, of course]... I don't think it should be excluded to potential Op material, and I don't think it should be some elite little clique thing, but I think it should be given out with consideration and proper judgment. I don't think it should take forever to earn it; some users might prove their worth to the channel more quickly than others, or be noticed more... and I don't think that the decision should be done by one or two ops, but should be, you know, discussed a little bit. I don't think it should be too fast, though, because users can be like shooting stars -- come in, shine brightly, then burn out fast and fade. D:!

I guess I agree with you that the list should be equal to the amount of higher-rank staff, too. I don't actively participate in #SPP-WiFi that much, just sit there and watch the channel, so I can't really answer about #SPP-WiFi... I do think that there are too many #SPP VOps, though. I mean, personally, I don't see why there should be too many #SPP-WiFi VOps, as #SPP is a chat and #SPP-WiFi isn't for discussions, but I really lack an informed opinion on that issue. Well, seeing as #SPP-WiFi seems to have more HOps than #SPP -- judging from the posts in this thread --, I'm guessing that the overall number of higher-rank staff is ridiculous for an amount of VOps in a chan like #SPP-WiFi.

Arashi is right about the time zone thing, though; there are a few hours in my evening [AEST, although I think right now we're observing daylight savings time... details, details >>;] where #SPP essentially dies, and, yet, earlier, the VOps alone took up like half [I'm not exactly exaggerating] of the sidebar on one screen. D: Of course, there are still a number around in the evening, simply because people leave their computers on when asleep/at work/at school/doing some hard partying... that's another reason I like your number of 'equal to the amount of higher-rank staff', because it doesn't rely on the fluctuating collective presence of H/Ops. 8D;;; Oh, and another point is that, in your original post, you used the approximate figures of nine? H/Ops and a 'large number' of VOps; a lot of VOps leave their computers on when they sleep/work/school/party hard/etc., not that there's not a surplus of VOps in the first place. Plus, then you have to account for the couple of temporary voices that are usually there, given temporary voice for whatever reason that may be... ~_~;

his is getting a little tl;dr, so I'll cut it here, as it probably doesn't offer all that much, anyway. u_u;;;

Also, I think the access list is a little... funny, because there generally seems to be more Ops than HOps... To me, the hierachy... it makes sense to be a little like a pyramid. The base should be the VOps, then the middle should be the HOps, and the apex should be the AOps, SOps, and our deity!Serebii...? That's just my opinion... :/ I don't want to seem like I'm judging the staff decisions to promote or anything...!

As for your thing about the 'recent events'? Yeah, that's another reason I posted in this thread, 'cause I wanted to agree... When I heard we were having a server change, I soon thought, 'Well, this is probably a good opportunity for Locke's proposed spring cleaning!'... D: <3

P.S. Right now, at 6:28 PM in NSW, Australia's time zone, there are five staff members of higher rank [&Asuka, &SerebiiBot, @Kirby, %Aeris [who is asleep], %Cynthia], and eighteen voiced users [many of whom appear to be asleep/away]. o_x

 

[Kirby]

P.S. Right now, at 6:28 PM in NSW, Australia's time zone, there are five staff members of higher rank [&Asuka, &SerebiiBot, @Kirby, %Aeris [who is asleep], %Cynthia], and eighteen voiced users [many of whom appear to be asleep/away]. o_x

tl;dr except the last paragraph.

Serebiibot doesn't count as a staffer since he's just that, a bot. He doesn't kick or ban, and when he does, it's commanded by someone who is an aOP or sOP.

Voices, who cares if most are asleep, they can't do anything anyways.

 

[Locke Yggdrasill]

Voices, who cares if most are asleep, they can't do anything anyways.

And the point of having them on, then? If they don't kick, they don't ban, they don't talk, they don't do jack, why are they on the list?

 

[Neal15]

And the point of having them on, then? If they don't kick, they don't ban, they don't talk, they don't do jack, why are they on the list?

While I could agree with you on that - I'd also look into how it doesn't bother me.

On the other hand, asking why are the VOps VOps, is asking an individual question to each VOp.

Anyways, did it occur to you not all the +v's are VOps?

I think the real problem is why we +v Draelen and bowbiter for 'joining' the channel for the complete randonmess of it. They don't contribute to #SPP. Etc.

And we might have some new people whom will be auto-+v'd manually.

-Neal.

 

[Malice]

I've pretty much just recently become an active members of the chats, mostly due to my status as IRC Op and because you moved to the network, but I do want to just mention this...

It's currrently 0400 EST and there are four channel staff on both channels, including Serebii. Both HOPs are asleep, I -think- Asuka is asleep too, and Serebii is doing whatever it is he does. There are fifteen VOPs in the main channel and five in WiFi (IRC Ops accounting for four and two VOPs, respectively). It does seem to be an overflow of VOPs compared to HOPs and AOPs. (SerebiiBot, by the way, is defaulted to SOP because it's a BotServ bot).

If anything, I think you need another HOP or two but, again, I am not sure of your system. Just giving you an outside view.

 

[Neal15]

Seems like this is the thread for VOps to request more HOps. And by doing so, who will get first dibs on becoming HOps? VOps of course.

Mm hmm.

Anyways, as a person starting #SPP in summer 2001, it certainly does feel weird that #SPP people from 2007 are making these complaints. Because back in 2001, the AOp and SOp population surpassed the VOp and UOp populations. No one had a problem with that.

 

[Neal15]

In my opinion, the access ranks should all average out at about the same number, but that's certainly not the case as of right now.

It's rather useless to propose that the population of SOps should approximately equal the number of AOps which should approximinately equal the number of HOps and VOps.

But suppose #SPP staff will do as you say.

What do you think will most likely happen: the amount of SOps and AOps and HOps will increase to match with the population of VOps...

Or..

They will start removing VOps to match the population of SOps, AOps, and HOps.

So you might want to take back what you requested, or hope the above doesn't happen.

Neal Conroy.

 

[Kirby]

And the point of having them on, then? If they don't kick, they don't ban, they don't talk, they don't do jack, why are they on the list?

So how long did you have to suck Joe's dick to get unbanned?

Voices are there for when the chat gets muted or banned, then only those with voices and above may still talk.

I'm sure you knew th-- Wait, you didn't even know mods could ban? I am giving you to much credit.

 

[Locke Yggdrasill]

So how long did you have to suck Joe's dick to get unbanned?

Voices are there for when the chat gets muted or banned, then only those with voices and above may still talk.

I'm sure you knew th-- Wait, you didn't even know mods could ban? I am giving you to much credit.

Well, considering he was sleeping at the time of my ban, and I went to sleep soon after I got banned, and I woke up unbanned, I don't think I said very much at all.
I'm sure glad that you and josh felt the need to ridicule me on the matter of my ban; it certainly sets the standard for the forums.

Regardless, how often is #SPP muted, legally? Not to often, by my watch. Generally it's done out of anger and is soon undone.

And, I'm afraid my point is being mistaken: I'm not trying to get people promoted and/or people removed - I'm trying to get EVERY VOp demoted and have them re-earn their status. Whether or not HOps get promoted/demoted isn't important to me.
Now I don't think that it should be SOps=Ops=Hops=Vops. I meant that Sops, Aops, and Hops (all three groups as a whole) should equal Vops. Neal, I'd go edit that post to actually include my proper intention, but I'm too lazy to sit through forum lag to find it, because it's going on and off every few seconds right now.

 

[Ryuusei]

gawd damnit, why are you so intent on pursuing the cleaning out of ALL vops?

The whole server relocated and zomg, we got new vops and some inactive ones got kicked out.

imo, just shut up about having status in a chatroom. If you're voiced then you're voiced, if you're not then you're not. Don't have to make a hissy fit of how there are so many vops and so little people with higher status.

Your Watch =/= Staff's Watch. there were often instances where we had bot attacks and where I don't seem to recognise you being on, therefore you can shut up about knowing everything that happens in the channel unless you're on 24/7, 365 days of a year, with supporting logs to prove that you were present whenever the channel was muted.

Voice is just something to represent how well known you are at the chat or how respected you are by the higher ups. sure, some voices are cool people and some are not but its not like they can do anything but talk when the channel's muted.

I don't get the logic why there has to be such a huge complaint about having so many voices, ESPECIALLY when we just made a server change where everyone was cleared of access until Joe or an SOp/AOp gave it to them.

 

[facetious]

BLAHBLAHLAJBLHAHLWHINEWWIHWNIWENHIWNEH

So you've told people to shut up and stop complaining, yet you insist on complaining yourself? Way to go m8!

I don't know why the lot of you honestly care about the chat. Both #SPP and especially #SPP-Wifi are breeding grounds for the mentally retarded.

 

[Sird]

So you've told people to shut up and stop complaining, yet you insist on complaining yourself? Way to go m8!

I don't know why the lot of you honestly care about the chat. Both #SPP and especially #SPP-Wifi are breeding grounds for the mentally retarded.

Why the **** are you posting then? Can't you just jump down a building? Loser.

Look, most of the useless Vop has been gotten rid of, including me, even though I got it the day before they move servers. I am trying to get it back now, Kirby, to most Ops, Voiced are practically useless, but to small little people like us who has no position at all, getting voiced is a present that we treasure. I hope you understand that. I mean no insult to you. =|

And if #SPP are breeding grounds for the mentally retarded, go insult Kirby, Captain Chris, Josh, Eszett in their faces for being in a mental hospital. Oh, and Serebii himself. I am getting sick of you, facetious. You used to be a person I supported to be a mod, but now, you are officially going to my ignore list.

 

[Locke Yggdrasill]

gawd damnit, why are you so intent on pursuing the cleaning out of ALL vops?

The whole server relocated and zomg, we got new vops and some inactive ones got kicked out.

imo, just shut up about having status in a chatroom. If you're voiced then you're voiced, if you're not then you're not. Don't have to make a hissy fit of how there are so many vops and so little people with higher status.

Your Watch =/= Staff's Watch. there were often instances where we had bot attacks and where I don't seem to recognise you being on, therefore you can shut up about knowing everything that happens in the channel unless you're on 24/7, 365 days of a year, with supporting logs to prove that you were present whenever the channel was muted.

Voice is just something to represent how well known you are at the chat or how respected you are by the higher ups. sure, some voices are cool people and some are not but its not like they can do anything but talk when the channel's muted.

I don't get the logic why there has to be such a huge complaint about having so many voices, ESPECIALLY when we just made a server change where everyone was cleared of access until Joe or an SOp/AOp gave it to them.

I was there for a few bot attacks, whether you "recognise it" or not.
Where did I ever throw a hissy fit?

Your Watch =/= Staff's Watch. there were often instances where we had bot attacks and where I don't seem to recognise you being on, therefore you can shut up about knowing everything that happens in the channel unless you're on 24/7, 365 days of a year, with supporting logs to prove that you were present whenever the channel was muted.

Whether or not it's my watch or your watch, I still have the right to discuss and post about a possible access cleanout in this section.

Why the **** are you posting then? Can't you just jump down a building? Loser.

Look, most of the useless Vop has been gotten rid of, including me, even though I got it the day before they move servers. I am trying to get it back now, Kirby, to most Ops, Voiced are practically useless, but to small little people like us who has no position at all, getting voiced is a present that we treasure. I hope you understand that. I mean no insult to you. =|

And if #SPP are breeding grounds for the mentally retarded, go insult Kirby, Captain Chris, Josh, Eszett in their faces for being in a mental hospital. Oh, and Serebii himself. I am getting sick of you, facetious. You used to be a person I supported to be a mod, but now, you are officially going to my ignore list.

It's people express a certain level of intelligence and won't abuse their position who deserve VOp. I assume that you're qualified, which is why you deserved it before.


Ryuu, regardless of how you think or how I think or how Jesus Christ thinks, a civilization does well when it's cleansed of corruption. Now An excess of VOps isn't necessarily entire political corruption, but a cleansing is always nice and would do well for #spp.

 

[facetious]

I've been to the chat many times in the past, and I've seen it being muted more than often and usually for no reason. What do all the vops do during this period? "o.o;;;", "OMG I CAN TALK U ALL CAN'T, "haha n00bs", etc. etc. etc. I'm not exaggerating either.

Get rid of the vop system. Problem solved, and then you can all happily return to the cesspool of retardation and asininity.

 

[JoshYEAH]

What makes me wonder is where Locke finds the time to pretend he's someone who should give a damn about this kind of thing.

I mean really.

 

[Neal16]

Kirby, to most Ops, Voiced are practically useless, but to small little people like us who has no position at all, getting voiced is a present that we treasure. I hope you understand that.

And that itself is the problem in choosing VOps - they wouldn't want to give it to some newb who would become happy over it (unless a guy op gave it to a girl of course). Or someone that would go "Oh wow my 1st +v! I'm not going to part the channel when I go to bed tonight." Basically, a channel like #SPP would want admin-material staff. Including VOps.

There are several problems over giving VOps to the more newb-side of people and giving it to non-newbs. The 1st reason would be what I just stated in the above paragraph. And another problem would be to differentiate between someone who is a newb and who isn't.

Unfortunately, a lot of what makes someone a newb are choices and environment. You have limited choices on IRC. Similarly, an SPP-WifiGuest has limited choices too. Therefore, if an SPP-WifiGuest got banned or g:lined, he will cry over it.

Similarly, if an SPP-Guest got g:lined on DejaToons, he will cry over it. But today, though, he could /server -m irc.dejatoons.net, then join #Help, and say "F*ck you all!!! DejaToons sucks! Oh yea, and if you g:line me, I won't care, cuz #SPP moved to PurpleSurge!" Then he could /quit or get g:lined and laugh over it.

But if he got g:lined on the PurpleSurge network, he has limited choices, and will cry over it.

The flipside of this is - if you were given the same environment and choices as Serebii - you'd find you are all very similar. This mean psychologically, Serebii himself is a lot like the newbs if given the same choices and environment, which you don't have, neither do any of the SPP-WifiGuests.

Several examples.

Example 1.

1st off, in 2001, #SPP was not the big pokémon channel, #pokemasters was. You know now on DejaToons and PurpleSurge, Serebii does not join any channel he does not founder. But in 2001, I could /join #SPP and could see Serebii by himself alone in his channel. Therefore, he did join other channels. Where he was the VOp in #pokemasters.

Then, Serebii forums were not the large forums. Pokemasters forums were. Serebii himself was a member there. And his nick wasn't Serebii, it was Serebii_of_SPP. And everything about him was a mirror directed to #SPP and serebii.net. It was in his sig, his nick, his profile. He used #pokemasters and Pokemasters forums to gain users for his own channel and forum.

And what would happen if SPP forums closed down for a while and reopened? Troops would post on the TPM forums saying SPP forums is back! Basically - get people to advertise your forum in someone else's forums, and violate the Golden Rule. Now of course, TPM forum mods closed that topic. Would SPP forums allow the same?

So now we see #SPP is the largest chat and SPP forums is the largest forum, probably more than Serebii could handle. Therefore, he has little use joining outside channels and outside forums like he did back in 2001..

Example 2.

At 1 time, #SPP staff revolted against Serebii. The #SPP ops of 2002 and 2003 didn't get along with him at 1 point. They started their own channels. And made everyone op. PurpleKecleon was mad at Serebii and started her own channel and gave everyone ops. So did Raikou`, who started a #Kyogre's_Cavern.

#SPP staff 2006 and 2007 had something similar. They had a #Mandy. But that was not successful to getting the #SPP ops out of #SPP. They would be in both @#SPP and @#Mandy.

But PurpleKecleon's case was different - she was more successful, she got all of #SPP staff to her channel, and got them to not join #SPP anymore. This made Serebii stuck with the newbs. This gave Serebii an incentive to join their channels of course, only to be blacklisted. This would be around 2003.

This got Serebii very mad or depressed (I can't tell which), and at 1 time he shut down his channel, blacklisting everyone or something. And when I posted that on SPP forums, where I gave my sympathy, the topic was instantly closed. No, not closed. Deleted.

Today, Serebii goes on another IRC network - PocketMonsters. Basically #SPP_ops_of_2002 and 2003 have their own channel on another network, and they let Serebii in with his +v. Of course, as they are no longer newbs, it would be immature of them to akick him. On that network, #SPP was made to not be registered, with the closing reason "Eww."

Example 3.

but to small little people like us who has no position at all, getting voiced is a present that we treasure.

And as you well know, how many of #SPP ops would complain if they all of a sudden lost their access?

Back in the #pokemasters channel where Serebii regulared, the founder forgot to identify to the nick which held the channel. So the channel dropped. 1 op registered the channel as soon as she could. Did the original founder get it back? No he did not.

Similarly, if Serebii accidentally forgot to identify to his nick, so his nick dropped, so the channel went -r, then the first op to type /cs register etc. will become the new founder.

Do you think that new founder will give it back to Serebii? Or keep the channel for themself?

Of course, if that really happened, and Serebii wasn't getting his channel back, he'd move to another channel or register #SPP on another network, then forward his java applets there, then the rest of #SPP ops will migrate like the ****-suckers they are.

So many non-SPP channels closed down on DejaToons just because #SPP and #SPP-Wifi did. Even though they were different channels.
People really have the problem of going to more than 1 network at the same time.

Therefore, 1 reason newbs are newbs (besides their lack of knowledge), is the limited amount of choices they have. I'm willing to bet 99% of IRC people - the channels they join and all, had to do with their first channel ever they been to. Geography shapes history. They are geographically separated and limited, a lot of it by their own newbiness.

So when SPP-Guest gets banned, he'll cry. Because he has limited choices. If he had more (like the knowledge of evading a ban it would be different). Similarly, someone that knows how to ddos, won't mind getting g:lined. Since all networks and websites have IP addresses, you need to know the IP address in order to connect to it. (Because if you didn't, then it's impossible for you to connect.) Therefore, IP address can be attacked through ddos attacks and botnets. Ever wonder why Draelen is against botnets? Anyone whom is not a newb and knows how to ddos is a threat to Draelen. So likewise, being a newb sucks.

Which is why it matters to SPP-Guest that he does not get banned from #SPP. Or g:lined from PurpleSurge.

Similarly, they'll find it a treasure if they got +v.
And that's exactly the people that #SPP do not want to give +v to.

 

[Neal16]

And, I'm afraid my point is being mistaken: I'm not trying to get people promoted and/or people removed - I'm trying to get EVERY VOp demoted and have them re-earn their status.

But everyone that was already a VOp - got it earned somehow.

Or maybe you want to invent a new method of "earning" the +v, which will mean the previous VOps will have to do just that, or start over.

Or did some people become VOps because they did sexual or economic favors?

If not, then they'll just re-earn it the same way they did last time.

-Neal.

 

[Swampy]

Or did some people become VOps because they did sexual or economic favors?

Caught me.

 

[Sird]

I suck

Please stfu.


Anyhow, I got a trial Half-Op in SPP-WiFi and Voiced status in #SPP from an unknown Op, so that is what should they do! Trials!

8D

 

[Fenix]

Hi.
I'm back.
Looks like getting Vop in SPP depends on how well you suck up the mods now.
Congratulations.
ONTOPIC:
Honestly, this topic is pointless, why are you all wasting breath (aka time)?
I will be back on the chats on monday, fyi.