[ADV] EVs for Agility Pass Jolteon

[Johny Cid]

Well... the title kind of gives it away.

What EVs would you use for the following Jolteon:

;135; Jolteon @ Leftovers
Timid (+Spd, -Atk)
Thunderbolt
Baton Pass
Substitute
Agility

His role in the team is to Pass Agility and Subs... I wonder if, using Agility, it is needed to go to 394 Speed (max IVs, benefitial nature and 252 EVs), since it will usually Agility on 1st turn, doubling his Speed and outracing everything.

So my real question is: how low can Jolteon Speed go?

 

[BigMoney]

You don't need the speed for the pure passing of agility. The speed is for Jolteon's usage outside of passing agility.

 

[shadow_burnt]

Jolteon's speed can go as low as 296, while being as high as 359. An agility times the speed by 2. But the thing you may be talking about is that Jolteon and all other baton passers only pass the agility, not the speed.

So lets do this:

Jolteon has 300 speed. Agility is used making it 600.

Jolteon then baton passes it to someone with 100 speed.

That one with 100 speed now becomes 200.

To summarise, what baton passing does is pass the boosts not the stat.

 

[Johny Cid]

LOL I know how Baton Pass works... I'm just asking that, while usually Agility-ing once he comes out, he will outrace everything. And since Jolteon will usually come in to counter something that's a lot slower than him anyway, I wonder if I could drop a bit of speed to increase his bulk. Or you think that it isn't needed? With 374 speed (intead of 394), for example, Jolteon will outrun non-Jolly Aerodactyl and all base 120's. But since of the base 120's only Dugtrio would be a problem and this Jolteon can't touch him anyway, I was thinking of droping to 362, just to outrun Starmie. But then again, maybe it's best to tie with Jolly Aerodactyl...

 

[BigMoney]

It's really all situational. There are situations where you will not use agility. How often do you think you will come across jolly base 130s and 120s? Will the extra bulk be useful enough to warrant the drop in speed? Even though you can't touch dugtrio and jolteon, you can still use baton pass. Jolteon's hidden power coming from 318 special attack does break the sub of a jolteon with only 4 hp evs invested. You can also invest everything into bulk while still outrunning max speed base 85s and hoping you can use agility for everything faster. In this case, the extra bulk is often helpful and may be worth not having as much speed in situations where you can't use agility.

 

[meteor64]

I'd go for Max. Adamant Aero is a much rarer sight than Jolly, same goes for Dugtrio and Starmie, and these are things you want to be able to outspeed (or in the case of Aero, tie with) regardless of Agility. If you want a bulkier Agilipasser, use Zapdos.

 

[5221A]

I think that nothing more is needed than 156 EVs in Spd. Outruning +1 Gyarados.

 

[meteor64]

I think that nothing more is needed than 156 EVs in Spd. Outruning +1 Gyarados.

lol +1 Adamant Gyara hits 391 Speed, so you actually need 244 Speed EVs, I don't know how you got 156. Don't even bother with Jolly variants. Seriously, might as well max it on the off chance you get forced into playing for a speed tie with Aerodactyl (assuming you're not running HP Ice).

 

[5221A]

lol +1 Adamant Gyara hits 391 Speed, so you actually need 244 Speed EVs, I don't know how you got 156. Don't even bother with Jolly variants. Seriously, might as well max it on the off chance you get forced into playing for a speed tie with Aerodactyl (assuming you're not running HP Ice).

The most common set uses only 188 EVs in Spd.... reaching 367, and Timid Joltion with 156 EVs reaches 368 spd outruning him, also few ppl run Jolly.... also I dont recomend switching in on a Aerodactly, and if a Areodactly switches in (I dont recomend) you will use agil, sub, thunderbolt or baton pass witch all you end up wining (exept for foucus sash, witch is rare). so max SpAtk, 156 Spd, 96 HP and 4 SpDef with Timid nature is good.

 

[meteor64]

The most common set uses only 188 EVs in Spd.... reaching 367, and Timid Joltion with 156 EVs reaches 368 spd outruning him, also few ppl run Jolly.... also I dont recomend switching in on a Aerodactly, and if a Areodactly switches in (I dont recomend) you will use agil, sub, thunderbolt or baton pass witch all you end up wining (exept for foucus sash, witch is rare). so max SpAtk, 156 Spd, 96 HP and 4 SpDef with Timid nature is good.

If you're not running Gyara with at least 196 EVs and Jolly then you're a fool tbh, anything slower is sub-optimal. The most common set is not the best set, since the vast majority of smogons ADV sets are outdated. I have enough years of Adv experience to know that Adamant Gyara is just not worth it.

Lol at mention of focus sash, learn 3rd gen

Agilipass Jolt is pretty much outclassed by Agilipass Zapdos and should never really be used

And I never said switch in Aero on Jolt, I said you might as well max it on the off chance you have to play for the speed tie (basically, if either player feels it is a last resort to win). Its not really going to need the EVs elsewhere, Jolt is supposed to pass lightning fast Subs to basically give other pokes a free switch in

Also 368 Speed means you get outsped by Dugtrio, which is like, the stupidest thing ever for a Jolteon

 

[5221A]

If you're not running Gyara with at least 196 EVs and Jolly then you're a fool tbh, anything slower is sub-optimal. The most common set is not the best set, since the vast majority of smogons ADV sets are outdated. I have enough years of Adv experience to know that Adamant Gyara is just not worth it.

Lol at mention of focus sash, learn 3rd gen

Agilipass Jolt is pretty much outclassed by Agilipass Zapdos and should never really be used

And I never said switch in Aero on Jolt, I said you might as well max it on the off chance you have to play for the speed tie (basically, if either player feels it is a last resort to win). Its not really going to need the EVs elsewhere, Jolt is supposed to pass lightning fast Subs to basically give other pokes a free switch in

Also 368 Speed means you get outsped by Dugtrio, which is like, the stupidest thing ever for a Jolteon

I never said i looked anything up on smogon :/ . It might not be worth it but the most used Gyara set uses only 188 EVs (in Spd) and Adamant nature. (on PO)
It might be outclassed, but he wants to use it.
Its not like it is going to happen much, but whatever.
If you realy find being outrun by Jolly Dugtrio bad just add some more Spd.... (he wont be touching him anyways)

 

[meteor64]

I never said i looked anything up on smogon :/ . It might not be worth it but the most used Gyara set uses only 188 EVs (in Spd) and Adamant nature. (on PO)

But its not the best. The point of this spread is to find the best spread, and for 3rd gen in most cases the most common spread is not the best.

It might be outclassed, but he wants to use it.

Who does?

Its not like it is going to happen much, but whatever.

Well you're not really going to do anything useful with those EVs, the only sort of hits Jolteon can switch in on are Thunderbolts and maybe a predicted HP Flying (predict wrong and your Jolteon dies right there), there is absolutely no need for bulk.

If you realy find being outrun by Jolly Dugtrio bad just add some more Spd.... (he wont be touching him anyways)

Which is what I was saying? Its not about beating Dugtrio (although most Jolteon have Hidden Power so they can, with 1 layer of Spikes its a guaranteed OHKO on most dug) but the fact you can Baton Pass out to something that flies and leave Dugtrio sitting in the dust. Dugtrio shouldn't be able to touch you at all, thats why the Speed is necessary.