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Aegislash Discussion Thread

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Yeah, I've seen a few more Mandibuzz lately. It received pretty poor usage in the last stats (somewhere around .4%, IIRC), but that was also based on just 8 days of collected data. I'm pretty sure that as people start catching onto how good it is, you'll see it rise to around 3-4% usage, which might put it in OU range.
 

McDanger

Well-Known Member
Back on topic, aegislash's unpredictability makes it hard to check, while a special based mixed set can be walled by tanks such as goodra, goodra has trouble stopping swords dance aegislash, and the same is reversed for landorus therian. As i said above, mandibuzz is aegislash's only true counter, resisting shadow sneak, shadow ball, and with its physical defensive set, doesn't take a lot from sacred sword, while aegislash is 2hkoed in shield mode, iirc, by foul play, OHKOed if it swords dances, and can roost to heal off damage, tho it makes it more vulnerable to sacred sword due to it losing its flying typing.
 
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LinksOcarina

The true master
This may come off harsh, but link and wifi battles are bad, due to people needing to grind up everything, makes their teams slower to adapt and create a meta, while servers allow the meta to change every few weeks with new stuff trending, and example was in BW with the landorus-keldeo-ttar core, which lead to gyarados trending, which lead to a rise in hp electric keldeo. I fully support people battling whatever way they want, but the meta is generally more extensive on servers like PO and PS, plus its easier to test new stuff there than wifi.

I always compare that to a simulation vs the real thing. If you can train a core group of twenty pokemon for wifi battles to use you are already ahead of the curb on things. Using Pokemon Online to crunch numbers and test out teams is fine, but you lose the part about the game that is fun.

And for the record, I am training a Mandibuzz now because I want to see how it does in the field. A field run rampant with ghosts. and Aegislash. I think every fight I have been in has had some variant of him on there, primarily physical attackers though interestingly enough.

Yeah, I've seen a few more Mandibuzz lately. It received pretty poor usage in the last stats (somewhere around .4%, IIRC), but that was also based on just 8 days of collected data. I'm pretty sure that as people start catching onto how good it is, you'll see it rise to around 3-4% usage, which might put it in OU range.

Mandibuzz was always very useful, people neglected it because they over-value stealth rock and the focus was on weather in Black and White, something Mandibuzz didn't mesh with. As a resistant wall against ghost types when you need walls against them, her stock went up.
 
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KillerDraco

Well-Known Member
Mandibuzz was always very useful, people neglected it because they over-value stealth rock and the focus was on weather in Black and White, something Mandibuzz didn't mesh with. As a resistant wall against ghost types when you need walls against them, her stock went up.

The buff to Overcoat in Gen 6 was a nice addition as well. Powders may not be the most common thing in the world but an immunity to Spore and Sleep Powder is a welcome little improvement.

But I digress. It's not only her resistance against Ghost types, but the neutrality to fighting which helped seal the deal, given that fighting type moves have phenomenal complementary coverage alongside Ghost. Base 80 speed isn't bad for a wall, either, so not only can it switch in with relative ease, but also force Aegislash out with the threat of Foul Play due to outspeeding it and not minding Shadow Sneak.
 

Divine Retribution

Conquistador de pan
What about Drapion? Like Mandibuzz, he resists Ghost and takes neutral damage from Fighting, but trades some bulk for a more offensive presence (and more importantly Pursuit). I feel like the Dark/Ghost buff is going to be bringing a lot more of these obscure threats into the light.
 

McDanger

Well-Known Member
What about Drapion? Like Mandibuzz, he resists Ghost and takes neutral damage from Fighting, but trades some bulk for a more offensive presence (and more importantly Pursuit). I feel like the Dark/Ghost buff is going to be bringing a lot more of these obscure threats into the light.

I could see banded drapion being a nice niche pokemon, tho its biggest disadvantage to mandibuzz is it can't handle excadrill like mandibuzz can thanks to foul play. That said, drapion does apply more offensive pressure by far, plus discourages excadrill coming in on it due to earthquake and crunch, while also pressuring mega alakazam and gengar with crunch.
 

Divine Retribution

Conquistador de pan
I could see banded drapion being a nice niche pokemon, tho its biggest disadvantage to mandibuzz is it can't handle excadrill like mandibuzz can thanks to foul play. That said, drapion does apply more offensive pressure by far, plus discourages excadrill coming in on it due to earthquake and crunch, while also pressuring mega alakazam and gengar with crunch.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 148+ Def Mandibuzz: 367-432 (86.76 - 102.12%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
(367, 369, 374, 380, 382, 387, 393, 395, 400, 406, 408, 413, 419, 421, 426, 432)

Is there something I'm missing here? Neither of them really even check Excadrill, since Drapion is immediately OHKO'd by Earthquake and Mandibuzz is always OHKO'd by Rock Slide after Stealth Rocks, and easily outsped and 2HKO'd if Excadrill is at +0 with Sandstorm (or again, Stealth Rock) active.
 

McDanger

Well-Known Member
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 148+ Def Mandibuzz: 367-432 (86.76 - 102.12%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
(367, 369, 374, 380, 382, 387, 393, 395, 400, 406, 408, 413, 419, 421, 426, 432)

Is there something I'm missing here? Neither of them really even check Excadrill, since Drapion is immediately OHKO'd by Earthquake and Mandibuzz is always OHKO'd by Rock Slide after Stealth Rocks, and easily outsped and 2HKO'd if Excadrill is at +0 with Sandstorm (or again, Stealth Rock) active.

most mandibuzz are 252/252 impish, takes about 60% and OHKOs back, not the most reliable check but it works in a pinch
 

LinksOcarina

The true master
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 148+ Def Mandibuzz: 367-432 (86.76 - 102.12%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
(367, 369, 374, 380, 382, 387, 393, 395, 400, 406, 408, 413, 419, 421, 426, 432)

Is there something I'm missing here? Neither of them really even check Excadrill, since Drapion is immediately OHKO'd by Earthquake and Mandibuzz is always OHKO'd by Rock Slide after Stealth Rocks, and easily outsped and 2HKO'd if Excadrill is at +0 with Sandstorm (or again, Stealth Rock) active.

Plus sandstorm is not guaranteed anymore, which does neuter Excadrill's speed tier heavily. Mandibuzz can also phaze him out with whirlwind then roost off damage if you give it that set, in the long run it outlasts Excadrill if it gets it out of the sand.
 
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windsong

WEST SIDE
Plus sandstorm is not guaranteed anymore, which does neuter Excadrill's speed tier heavily. Mandibuzz can also phaze him out with whirlwind then roost off damage if you give it that set, in the long run it outlasts Excadrill if it gets it out of the sand.

Excadrill generally runs mold breaker now, btw, not Sand Rush. Mold Breaker is much better in the meta now since it makes all spinblockers other than Trevenant and Gourgeist unable to switch in on Earthquake. Mandibuzz is also a kinda shitty Excadrill counter but that's another story entirely!!!!
 

Honus

Well-Known Member
i wouldnt say mandibuzz is a counter by any means but its certainly a poke that can take an attack from excadrill and retaliate well, that said its not the poke you want as your first choice to stay in while excadrill attacks, especially with its sr weak

also i wouldnt bet on seeing any drapion in OU any time soon...
 

LinksOcarina

The true master
i wouldnt say mandibuzz is a counter by any means but its certainly a poke that can take an attack from excadrill and retaliate well, that said its not the poke you want as your first choice to stay in while excadrill attacks, especially with its sr weak

also i wouldnt bet on seeing any drapion in OU any time soon...

We should probably save that talk for a different thread, but I would say not necessarily on Drapion either, it has potential to be a sweeper and with new changes coming into the metagame its raw power and potential for a specially defensive pivot can come into play again since it resists ghosts, psychics, darks, and is neutral to faeries and fighting types..
 
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KillerDraco

Well-Known Member
We should probably save that talk for a different thread

Yeah, this has gotten a little off the topic of Aegislash, hasn't it?

Lately my Aegislash feel naked when they don't have Shadow Sneak. It feels like they're a lot easier to check without it, most notably by Mega Gengar who otherwise traps and disposes of Aegislash when it doesn't have to worry about Shadow Sneak. Regardless of whether it's fully physical or mixed, I can't justify to myself giving up Shadow Sneak... but maybe that's just me.
 

McDanger

Well-Known Member
Not really this thread is for anything involving aegislash, including its possible checks and counters

Ya shadow sneak is really to good to give up on aegislash, especially with its low speed, as it allows it to check would be checks such as, as mentioned above, gengar, as well as lets it stop boosting pokemon like blaziken and dragonite once they set up, or finish off threats mid/late game
 

Spade33

Member
Another perfect counter in use to combat Aegislash is Mamoswine. It out-speeds it on any day (except if Aegislash has a choice scarf and has max Speed EVs.....but those arent generally put on an Aegislash). And , with a Whopping 135 base attack, Mamoswine can dish out OHKO Earthquakes as much as it wants. Technically, Earthquake doesn't make contact, preventing the stat drop from Kings shield. Mamoswine can even take a physical hit pretty well from a shadow sneak.

Basically, any Ground pokemon with a strong Attack Stat and a Speed Stat above 75 or so, will be Aegislash's worst nightmare.

I recommend Mamoswine, Gliscor, Garchomp, Excadrill, Krookodile, and Flygon.
 

MedievalMovies

Absolute Power
Another perfect counter in use to combat Aegislash is Mamoswine. It out-speeds it on any day (except if Aegislash has a choice scarf and has max Speed EVs.....but those arent generally put on an Aegislash). And , with a Whopping 135 base attack, Mamoswine can dish out OHKO Earthquakes as much as it wants. Technically, Earthquake doesn't make contact, preventing the stat drop from Kings shield. Mamoswine can even take a physical hit pretty well from a shadow sneak.

Basically, any Ground pokemon with a strong Attack Stat and a Speed Stat above 75 or so, will be Aegislash's worst nightmare.

I recommend Mamoswine, Gliscor, Garchomp, Excadrill, Krookodile, and Flygon.

Diggersby as well. It oneshots Aegislash IIRC with Earthquake and nullifies Shadow Sneak
 

KillerDraco

Well-Known Member
Neither Diggersby nor Mamoswine can switch into Sacred Sword though, so both have to be wary about getting nailed on the switch.
 

MedievalMovies

Absolute Power
Neither Diggersby nor Mamoswine can switch into Sacred Sword though, so both have to be wary about getting nailed on the switch.

True.

Are there any true hard counters to this guy in OU? I'm thinking Gliscor but I don't think it has the ability to OHKO Aegis with EQ.

Edit: Doesn't even come close in Defense Forme Aegislash.

0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def (custom): 146-174 (45.06 - 53.7%) -- 33.98% chance to 2HKO
(146, 146, 150, 152, 152, 156, 156, 158, 158, 162, 164, 164, 168, 168, 170, 174)

Edit 2: Then I realize Aegislash can't touch Gliscor to save his life.

+2 252+ Atk (custom) Shadow Sneak vs. 244 HP / 248+ Def Gliscor: 100-118 (28.4 - 33.52%) -- possible 5HKO
(100, 100, 102, 103, 105, 106, 106, 108, 109, 111, 112, 112, 114, 115, 117, 118)
 
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KillerDraco

Well-Known Member
True.

Are there any true hard counters to this guy? I'm thinking Gliscor but I don't think it has the ability to OHKO Aegis with EQ.

Edit: Doesn't even come close in Defense Forme Aegislash.

0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def (custom): 146-174 (45.06 - 53.7%) -- 33.98% chance to 2HKO
(146, 146, 150, 152, 152, 156, 156, 158, 158, 162, 164, 164, 168, 168, 170, 174)

Edit 2: Then I realize Aegislash can't touch Gliscor to save his life.

+2 252+ Atk (custom) Shadow Sneak vs. 244 HP / 248+ Def Gliscor: 100-118 (28.4 - 33.52%) -- possible 5HKO
(100, 100, 102, 103, 105, 106, 106, 108, 109, 111, 112, 112, 114, 115, 117, 118)

But even in Gliscor's case, Mixed Aegislash often carry HP Ice which will put the hurt on Gliscor in a hurry. It really depends on what set Aegislash is running.
 
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