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After SUMO have you feelings towards BW changed?

Discussion in 'Pokémon Animé Discussion' started by MidnightMelody, Jun 27, 2018.

  1. MidnightMelody

    MidnightMelody Degrassi Student

    Ok so at the time I disliked BW with a passion but now that SUMO is out and pretty much makes me hate the anime with a passion I'm curious if anyone is a lot less ARGHHH! to BW. Personally I liked about 50 BW episodes compared to the 5 I like of SUMO. To me BW felt like Pokemon while SUMO feels like they wanted to copy another series but ended up failing. Yes comedy was in BW but it wasn't shoved in our faces. SUMO makes you literally gag on the comedy. Now before anyone says you are an adult now so of course you won't like SUMO I became an adult ten years ago and enjoyed the majority of things since so that argument is pretty pointless. As much as I was not a big Cilan and Iris fan at least they did something. Maybe the goals those two had were not done the best but at least it's better than like blowing a big bubble.
     
  2. Pokegirl Fan~

    Pokegirl Fan~ Very sleepy...zzz...

    No, it was XY that made my feelings toward BW change. I'd rather have BW or SM over a series like XY any day
     
  3. AshxSatoshi

    AshxSatoshi Ice Aurelia

    Honestly I was questioning this awhile ago as well. Well not exactly that but something similar. I’ve noticed ever since XY ended people have been less harder on Best Wishes and Iris in general. I don’t see a lot of hate bandwagons and from time to time I even see compliments about the series. Not to mention a good number of people questioning when Iris is going to return etc. Honestly I don’t think Sun and Moon is better than BW on a story telling level overall since some of the story plots seem all over the place but I can’t make full judgment on the series until it’s over (like story telling wise, character development wise etc). I definitely don’t hate it however and prefer it over XY.
     
  4. MidnightMelody

    MidnightMelody Degrassi Student

    I miss the concept of rivals,plot and travelling. Which is why I liked the solo episodes of Ash from a few weeks ago. The companions ruin SUMO for me. I mean I was not a big fan of Cilan and Iris but I could accept them. They had interesting moments. While SUMO has lackluster companions and moments seem forced.
     
  5. Slapstick-Olivia

    Slapstick-Olivia Well-Known Member

    Best Wishes was.... well decent, at least in my eyes. It had some major flaws, but those where not ,ore or less bad than the flaws of the other animes. I have the feeling that people, who hate on Best Wishes, just put their focus to much on one flaw and focus their whole energy and time on tis specific little flaw. For example, Iris is one of the most hated characters of the anime and one, maybe even the main reason, why people have such a grudge against the anime. People hate her mostly because of her running gag, which was boring and very repetitive, but this was her only real flaw. Other than that she was probably the most experienced main girl in term of battle and is also to this date the strongest female lead out of them all. But still, people just focus to much on this one flaw she had. Same they did with the anime as a whole.

    Sun and Moon suffers from similar reasons. This anime is really hated because of its art style and animation, even thought it is to this date the best animated anime the franchise ever had. But people just once again to much on he negative things and ignore the better parts of the anime.

    And I think this is the biggest reasons, why S&M and Best Wishes are such hated shows her ein the west. People put their attentions way to hard on the negativ things of this animes and fully ignore the best parts of it. Why? I don't know. Maybe people just love to complain.

    If you look closer, non of the animes are better or worst. Here is my personal Pros and Cons of each anime:

    Original Series
    + Likable characters with great interactions
    + Almost each episode tried to deliver something new...
    - ...but in the later episodes the became very formulaic
    - had some repeated running gags
    - Misty and Brock weren't used very well
    - Animation was very stiff sometimes
    - The world wasn't really established at the beginning of the series
    - Some ideas like the relationship between Brock and Prof. Ivy and the GS ball where just dropped at some point

    Advance Generation
    + Likable and fun characters
    + For the first time we had another character in a lead role and with her own goal in mind
    + The world was now better established
    - the episodes were still a touch to formulaic
    - Brock and Max weren't really used well
    - Animation was still very stiff
    - had still the same old running gags

    Diamond and Pearl
    + Very likable and interesting characters with very good interactions
    + Dawn was treated as a co-star to Ash and was just as important as him
    + Animation was really good for the time
    + It was a great balance of comedy, drama, action and adventure
    + They used the ideas from the games to it's full potential
    - The ending felt rushed
    - Animation was in some episodes still a bit to stiff for my point
    - Brock was almost unnecessary for this series
    - This anime still had some episodes with the basic formula (not as much as before, but still used them in some episodes)
    - had still the same old running gags

    Best Wishes
    + Likable and fun characters
    + Really well done animation
    + Very episode tried to deliver something new to the table
    + Had more variety with its human design (now that Brock was gone, the didn't had to created for almost every third episodes a young girl)
    + It tried to establish some new ideas...
    - ...but kinda failed with them...
    - Some new annoying running gags
    - Iris and Cilan unique personalities could have been used more and better
    - Had not much variation with its locations
    - The ending felt rushed and to the end they where just filler episodes

    X&Y
    + Likable characters and sweet characters
    + Really great animation
    + Much more variety with it's locations
    + Great background design
    - The main characters barley interacted with each other
    - Not much variety with its Pokémon in terms of battles and stories
    - This series tried to hard to be mature and edgy
    - A lot of wasted potential (like the shipping and league)
    - Team Rocket felt very unnecessary in this anime

    Sun and Moon
    + Very likable and fun characters
    + This series uses now a cast of recurring and established characters instead of creating a hand full of characters for each episode
    + Great and very fluid animation
    + The anime tries to use new ideas for its concept (like a new art style and a new structure)
    - This series concept feels more like it belongs in Yo-kai Watch
    - Some characters (Mallow and sometimes Sophocles) are very underused
    - It could use more interaction with its characters
     
    AshxSatoshi likes this.
  6. Jeal

    Jeal Well-Known Member

    The art style is not the reason why SM is so hated. It's because the forced comedy and the childish Ash.
     
    345ash-greninja likes this.
  7. Tealeaffs

    Tealeaffs ヒマワリ

    This is a toughie! Admittedly, I'm not up to date with SUMO, but from what I've seen of it, I wasn't really a huge fan. I liked the new style of animation they introduced but that was pretty much it. I disliked how they made Ash act so childish and immature again. Even though he hasn't aged really, I felt that Ash in the later half of Advanced gen up to BW, was somewhat mature for his age, and a lot more tolerable to watch than his current incarnation in the show.

    To be quite honest, I never really understood a lot of the hate BW got - or gen five in general for that matter - as I thought it was fine. I think a lot of the problem with BW, was that it was the first to go for a different approach in the show.
     
  8. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    I think a reason BW is getting 'vindicated' in a sense is because it actually did set up a few decent ideas and formula breakers that allowed the anime to branch out a bit and be less repetitive, even if the implementation was questionable sometimes. Some think SM and XY had a more successful run trying to play on it's concepts or even flesh them out further (even if sometimes obscured by their own flaws). SM is clearly trying to play on BW's more minimal reliance on Team Rocket or other plot devices for example, and making things more character driven on the twerps' part. It also went back to BW's goofier Ash, if wisely remembering to maintain most of his battle experience this time round.
     
  9. satopi

    satopi All hail Satomine Night!

    No, not really.
     
  10. Blaze Master X

    Blaze Master X Princess of Renais

    No, not at all. I enjoyed watching SM.
    Sure, BW has many flaws but BW is not that bad.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
  11. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    I think the high and low of Diamond and Pearl was that it was the final series using the full 'classic formula' untweaked, meaning in areas it had the most refinement in use, but in others it felt pretty stale. It was also at that sort of point with elements that they'd run them so down into the ground they really HAD to twist them around every once in a while (eg. TR had been flanderized into deranged losers by that point and their formula had worn thin, so really the only way to go was up, having odd moments like the contests where they actually pulled something off or their forgettable washout status in the organisation twisting into a blessing for them during the finale). It was a clear sign that BW would likely end up switching things around, it wouldn't have lasted just rinsing and repeating again (as shown when XY tried to slyly slide back into it).
     
  12. Alola Adventurer

    Alola Adventurer Well-Known Member

    Not really. Even with BW Ash's reset, I still enjoyed his personality and BW itself. And I enjoy SM a lot as well. Imo, SM and BW Season 1 have better fillers than some of the the other series. The only cons I had with BW were most of Da! , The Unova League and the Team Plasma arc in Episode N.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
  13. Darthlord7

    Darthlord7 The Unbeatable Magician

    Not at all. I still consider BW to be my least favourite series overall imo but I appreciate the fact that they tried new things with this particular series and certainly I enjoyed its fillers more than the majority of the other series' fillers barring SM's. I would rather see the writers taking risks and experimenting on trying new things per series and even refining certain stuff from the previous ones instead of recycling them over and over again.
     
  14. Jeal

    Jeal Well-Known Member

    TR always were losers, they were defeated by an newly captured Caterpie in episode 2. Don't you remember that?
     
    Satoshi & Touko likes this.
  15. Leonhart

    Leonhart Disney fanatic

    SM has changed my mind regarding many things, but Best Wishes isn't one of them because my stance on that saga wasn't negative to begin with. I prefer Best Wishes over most sagas, namely XY and SM.
     
  16. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    What I mean is that TR by that point had become exagerratively dopey and manic, and mostly just existed as a punching bag to make the other characters look more competent, compared to earlier episodes where they were buffoons, but the main threat of the series, and occasionally rather cunning and menacing. It got to such a case in DP that they seemed to like turning it around and having them actually do something competent on sporadic occasions. It was the first series TR actually WON things.
     
  17. AshxSatoshi

    AshxSatoshi Ice Aurelia

    One thing I will say SM (and XY) have made me appreciate more about BW and other sagas is the female leads. It’s like ever since Iris the writers have decided that female leads are too good for battling. Yes it seems they’re trying to branch out of this with Lillie but that’s 70+ episodes into the series.
     
    satopi, Trey pokes and Pokegirl Fan~ like this.
  18. Genaller

    Genaller PeaLyZard GreScepIn

    While SM may have its issues, it’s not nearly as atrocious as the abomination known as BW that threw over a decade of character and trainer skill progression out the window. Let me put it this way; I flat-out quit the Pokémon anime after about 15 episodes of BW (XY got me back into it and I unfortunately trudged through the major BW episodes in case anything from that series was ever brought up; I deeply regret torturing myself like that) while SM is about to air its 80th episode and I’m still here though admittedly I don’t have the same excitement for the show as I did when watching DP or XY weekly.
     
    345ash-greninja likes this.
  19. Satoshi & Touko

    Satoshi & Touko Take to the Skies!

    No. I was fine with BW before and I'm just fine with it now. SUMO has not influenced that.
     
  20. AshxSatoshi

    AshxSatoshi Ice Aurelia

    How would you know how awful a series was if you only watched 15 out of 141 episodes exactly? Or did you just see Pikachu lose to Snivy (which was explained) and turned the TV off? I’m not going to consider your “major episode” statement because that’s subjective but I’m assuming that’s Gym battles and probably the league. Granted I skipped a couple of episodes of XY I don’t outright claim it killed the Pokémon franchise or make it worse than it seems to be. I only discuss things I’ve seen and personally disliked without dissing the series as a whole. It’s funny how you claim BW stole Ash’s trainer skill progression but one the tactics he used in the Kalos League he also used in his battle with Clay.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2018
    Satoshi & Touko likes this.

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