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Alain vs Paul; Battle Of The Strongest!

Discussion in 'Animé Polls' started by Genaller, Oct 10, 2018.

?

Choose Every Statement That You Agree With

  1. Alain beats Paul when using Mega Evolution

    74.3%
  2. Alain beats Paul even without using Mega Evolution

    25.7%
  3. Mega Charizard X sweeps Paul 6-0

    20.0%
  4. Paul beats Alain when he’s not using Mega Evolution

    25.7%
  5. Paul beats Alain even when he is using Mega Evolution

    11.4%
  6. Paul won’t get swept by Mega Charizard X

    31.4%
  7. Paul ties with Alain when he isn’t using Mega Evolution

    14.3%
  8. Paul ties with Alain when he is using Mega Evolution

    5.7%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Genaller

    Genaller May 16th 2016 - October 12th 2019

    This was the most popular vs matchup during Kalos League season and its back with some twists! Like with the most recent iteration of Sawyer vs Tyson the poll options ask more than just who wins in a straight up match in order to keep things more interesting. Assume that Paul is using whatever you think his best 6 (against Alain) would be for this matchup. The scenario I find most interesting is Paul vs Alain without Mega Evolution (since MC-X just straight up curbstomps Paul due to how ludicrously OP it is as far as I’m concerned) for which my current playout would be as follows:

    Torterra vs Tyranitar -> Torterra (recalled)
    Ursaring vs Weavile -> Ursaring
    (Guts) Ursaring vs Bisharp -> Bisharp (recalled)
    Froslass vs Unfezzant -> Froslass
    Froslass vs Metagross -> Metagross
    Ninjask vs Metagross -> Metagross
    Torterra vs Metagross -> Metagross
    Electivire vs Metagross -> Electivire
    Electivire vs Charizard -> Charizard
    Drapion vs Charizard -> Charizard

    Though it could also go:

    Electivire vs Charizard -> Charizard
    Drapion vs Charizard -> Charizard
    Torterra vs Charizard -> Torterra
    Torterra vs Metagross -> Metagross
    Ursaring vs Metagross -> Metagross
    Froslass vs Metagross -> Metagross
    Ninjask vs Metagross -> Metagross/Draw
     
    keepitsimple likes this.
  2. Haven't we had this thread before?
    Anyways I voted for Paul losing if Alain uses mega evolution, he wins if Alain doesn't use mega evolution, and he won't lose 6-0 against mega Charizard X
     
    Genaller likes this.
  3. Genaller

    Genaller May 16th 2016 - October 12th 2019

    Yup. It was the first PAD thread that I ever debated in ^^. Here it is: https://forums.serebii.net/threads/paul-vs-alan.652590/
     
    Pokegirl Fan~ likes this.
  4. Akkipeddi

    Akkipeddi Gold Experience

    With MCX, it's a 6-0 for Alain, or max 6-1.
    Its interesting without MCX, though Alain should still win like this:

    Electivire vs Charizard: Charizard
    Drapion vs Charizard: Charizard
    Torterra vs Charizard: Draw
    Ursaring vs Bisharp: Draw
    Magmortar vs Metagross : Metagross
    Froslass vs Metagross: Metagross

    Even without Mega Evolution, Alain's top 3 of Charizard, Metagross and Bisharp would win it for him, since his top 3>Paul's top 3. However, it gets interesting if Alain starts with his bottom 3 of Tyranitar, Weavile and Unfezant, since Paul's bottom 3 are stronger than Alain's bottom 3. However, in the end, Charizard and Metagross will still pull it through.

    Edit: Made a few changes, since I agree that Paul is not likely to send out a Pokémon with type disadvantage, compared to Alain.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
    keepitsimple and Genaller like this.
  5. keepitsimple

    keepitsimple #KalosScrewJob

    ^
    While I'm in agreement that Alain wins comfortably, I can't see Paul sending out Froslass against Bisharp lol so I'm not sure that it would play out like that
     
    Genaller likes this.
  6. Akkipeddi

    Akkipeddi Gold Experience

    However, if Paul used his Sinnoh League team, and Alain used his team in the same order as in the finals, it would be a really interesting and close match imo:

    Aggron vs Tyranitar: Aggron
    Aggron vs Weavile: Weavile
    Gastrodon vs Weavile: Gastrodon
    Gastrodon vs Bisharp: Bisharp
    Drapion vs Bisharp: Draw
    Ninjask vs Unfezant: Ninjask (recalled)
    Froslass vs Unfezant: Froslass
    Froslass vs Metagross: Metagross
    Ninjask vs Metagross: Metagross
    Electivire vs Metagross: Electivire
    Electivire vs Charizard: Charizard
     
    keepitsimple likes this.
  7. ash&charizardfan

    ash&charizardfan Humanity's greatest soldier

    Even with paul's best team this would be an easy win for alain, his MCX is in the league of its own.And alain has other powerhouses like bisharp and metagross also who could defeat some of paul's best pokemon. Also case in point, MCX has type advantage against most of paul's aces like torterra and drapion and electivire's electric moves and magmortar's fire moves wont be that effective against it due to it being a dragon type and fire type.
     
    MockingJ and Genaller like this.
  8. Genaller

    Genaller May 16th 2016 - October 12th 2019

    Yeah...

    Aggron vs Tyranitar -> Tyranitar
    Gastrodon vs Tyranitar -> Gastrodon
    Gastrodon vs Weavile -> Weavile
    Drapion vs Weavile -> Drapion (recalled)
    Ninjask vs Bisharp -> Bisharp
    Froslass vs Bisharp -> Froslass
    Froslass vs Metagross -> Metagross
    Electivire vs Metagross -> Draw
    Drapion vs Unfezzant -> Drapion
    Drapion vs Charizard -> Charizard (easily)

    Presumably Paul wouldn’t be silly enough to keep Drapion in against a Steel type.
     
    keepitsimple likes this.
  9. 345ash-greninja

    345ash-greninja Leader Of The Dai-Gurren

    Well with Alain's godly overpowered Mega Charizard X, there is just no way that Paul doesn't get slaughtered 6-0 even with his best team. Considering how invincible E4 members are depicted in the anime, to even beat a top calibre E4 ace level Pokemon Paul would have get out the best combined efforts of his Pokemon with his best team. And imagine if that E4 ace Mega Evolves, and gets twice as much stronger with the ME boost, Paul has no chance of taking it down even with his best team in a combined effort.

    And MCX defeated a E4 Mega Evolved ace Pokemon that is Malva's Mega Houndoom, even after being exhausted and weared down by battling 9 Mega Evolved Pokemon before. That says enough.

    With MCX, unless Paul puts to good effect some subtle status moves and their effects, he gets swept without MCX losing barely any health.

    Without Mega Evolution, it'd be a better matchup:

    Tyranitar vs Drapion: Drapion sets up Toxic Spikes and recalled

    Tyranitar vs Froslass: Froslass (win after a very close fight with all the weather effects like Sand Steam and Hail into play, I assume Froslass closely pulls off the win due to Snow Cloak evasion)

    *Seeing Toxic Spikes being set, Alain sends out Unfezant to avoid it*

    Unfezant vs Froslass: Unfezant (should be an easy revenge KO, if Froslass uses its evasion tactics well it might get some damage in)

    Unfezant vs Ninjask: Ninjask (this should be a really exciting aerial battle, but though Unfezant has the type advantage, it looses in a quite close fight due to Ninjask's superior speed + maybe due to taking prior damage)

    *To continue avoiding Toxic Spikes, Alain now sends out Metagross*

    Metagross vs Ninjask: Ninjask (being a far more stronger Pokemon, Metagross easily gets the revenge kill by shrugging off Ninjask's ineffective moves)

    Metagross vs Ursaring: Ursaring recalled (after Paul sees Urasring getting easily overwhelmed and smacked around by Metagross' superior attack power and speed, he recalls it in time to avoid a loss)

    *Seeing that Metagross is a real heavyweight, Paul sends out his starter and one of his strongest Pokemon Torterra to counter it*

    Metagross vs Torterra: Metagross (would be quite a close fight, but as Metagross has barely taken damage fr the previous two fights, plus is the slightly better Pokemon, amd resists all of Torterra's moves, it pulls off the win)

    *Seeing that Metagross has taken a lot of damage and is really exhausted, Alain recalls it and sets out Bisharp, who won't be affected by Toxic Spiles as well, and Paul sends out Ursaring to counter it*

    Bisharp vs Ursaring: Bisharp (after a close fight, Ursaring has the moveset advantage with 4x effective Focus Blast and Hammer Arm, but Bisharp has superior speed to counter it + the deadly Guillotine. If Ursaring activates Guts being paralysed by Bisharp's Thunder Wave then the fight is even more close, but since Ursaring has taken significant damage from Metagross beforehand, Bisharp obviously wins)

    Bisharp vs Drapion: Drapion (Due to Bisharp being quite worn out from the previous fight, Drapion wins comfortably, but due to Bisharp's immunity to Poison type moves, it still is able to get some damage in)

    *Alain decides to continue avoiding Toxic Spikes and sends out Charizard in the air for that purpose*

    Charizard vs Drapion: Charizard (Charizard wins without barely taking any damage due to being the far stronger Pokemon and Drapion taking some damage from Bisharp beforhand)

    Charizard vs Electivire: Charizard (being Paul's strongest Pokemon and having a type advantage, Electivure puts up a valiantly close fight but still falls to Charizard's superior strength eventually, giving a definitive win to Charizard)

    Thus, Alain in this case, wins 6-3 with having a significantly damaged and weared down Charizard, a heavily damaged Metagross and an unused Weavile left in his arsenal.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
  10. PokemonBattleFanatic-

    PokemonBattleFanatic- Standby for Battle!

    Alain wins with Mega Evolution obviously,but Paul has a chance to either win or tie against Alain if he doesn't use Mega Evolution.Alain's Charizard is strong but I don't believe it's unbeatable in it's base form,it barely has a case over Ash's Charizard when it isn't relying on ME.Paul with his best team can win against Alain if he were to not use ME 100% guaranteed.Outside of his Charizard and I guess Metagross the rest of his team doesn't stack up to Paul's best team.

    Alain put so much focus on improving his Charizard he left the rest of his team in the dust,but a lot of that had to do with him wanting to become the strongest mega evolution trainer in the world.Paul's way of training was to build up the vast majority of his pokemon and give them equal amount of focus and not to rely on just one pokemon.

    I wondered whose training was more impressive,Alain trained a pokemon to be super powerful while Paul trained several pokemon to be powerhouses/tanks with 3-4 of them being tier 1 level and that would also include them not having any DEM moments or sending them to a special training facility like Charicific Valley to get stronger through someone else.

    And in terms of battling skill Paul is the superior one here,I have him as my #1 for best battler in the anime,especially if we're talking strictly normal trainers.Alain I have him in the Tyson/Virgil category,he knows the basics and doesn't make silly mistakes but doesn't formulate any out of the ordinary or genius strategies in battles like Paul does.

    Paul was prone to switching and sacrificing his pokemon,making good use of their status moves/abilities,planning a head for future battles,and just seeing what his opponent does on the battlefield and countering it right back.
     
    Kuzehiko and Genaller like this.
  11. Ignition

    Ignition Smug Smasher

    As much as I love Paul, there's no way he wins if Alain has Mega Zard X
     
    Genaller likes this.
  12. Apslup

    Apslup Feelin' Fine.

    Objectively, Alain is Ash's toughest Rival because not only does he have MCX, he also has two Pseudo-Legendarys (Tyranitar and Metagross), along with Weavile and Bisharp (and I guess you can say Unfezant :/)

    While I don't think MCX can solo Paul's Sinnoh League team (the one he used against Ash), I do think that he will take the majority of the KO's. Also Paul is no pushover, he can reckon he can put up a damn good fight and knock out a few of Alain's other mons (if he doesn't go straight into MCX)
     
  13. Genaller

    Genaller May 16th 2016 - October 12th 2019

    Here’s an amusing little story: In ME Act 1 Remo’s Mega Garchomp is able to give Alain’s Mega Charizard X a competitive fight and the same MC-X went on to loose to Siebold’s Mega Blastoise in a lower mid - mid diff fight (meaning at the very least MC-X was comparable to E4 Base Aces at the time when considering how large an increase ME provides). Remo went on to rigorously train his Garchomp till the league (meaning it was at least definitively stronger by then) for the sole purpose of having a rematch with Alain yet Mega Garchomp gets foddersied by MC-X indicating just how large of a difference there was between Act 1 MC-X and KL MC-X.

    Now with all of this in mind how many of Paul’s Pokémon could give ME Act 1 MC-X a better fight than Remo’s Mega Garchomp? Maybe you could make a case for his top Pokémon like Torterra and Electivire. If you really want to push it maybe Drapion as well; that’s about it. The rest of Paul’s Pokémon are getting eviscerated by KL MC-X; it sounds, but for that you can blame the anime for showcasing such massive differences in strength especially when it concerns E4/Champion lvl. So in the case of the Sinnoh League Team where everyone except maybe Electivire and if we’re pushing it Drapion are getting curbstomped, then how exactly is MC-X not sweeping Paul’s SL team? Paul’s main strategy here is Toxic Stall but MC-X can fly and none of Paul’s Pokémon have the raw power to knock it to the ground not to mention that Toxic Spikes may evaporate if Blast Burn is used. Honestly it would be interesting to think of what would Paul’s best strategy against MC-X be (without giving his Pokémon moves they haven’t shown they can use).
     
  14. mehmeh1

    mehmeh1 Being Human

    Thing is, mom Kanga was still regular kanga, only the baby mega evolved, and through strategy, guzma nullified mega kanga's only advantage, this isn't the case with MCX (though paul's pokemon would still most likely beat alain's other 5, with metagross being the only issue)
     
  15. PokemonBattleFanatic-

    PokemonBattleFanatic- Standby for Battle!

    Funny because Paul uses both brain and brawn but I'd say MCX sweeps Paul's best team,if Paul managed to mega evolve one of his pokemon that would be interesting to see because we seen how powerful Paul's Torterra,Ursaring,Drapion and Electivire were in DP.Imagine if one of them had a keystone,also knowing how hard he trained his pokemon on/off screen and how quickly they progressed in a short amount of time.
     
  16. JustAStatistic

    JustAStatistic Casual Trainer

    Paul's arguably the best trainer we've ever seen in the anime, but I doubt even he could do a thing against MC-X.

    And even without Mega Evolution, I don't see Paul beating Alain unless he gets to see and prepare for Alain's team.
     
    MockingJ likes this.
  17. R0shan

    R0shan Arcaknight

    Mega Charizard X, just like Ash's Charizard, is extremely overrated. The trifecta of the most overrated Pokemon are those two and Ash's Greninja. A 6-0 sweep? Are we underestimating just how difficult that is against anyone, much less a trainer of Paul's caliber. I've played enough sports to know that excellent strategy can overcome mindless firepower. Paul is a strategical genius and with his strongest team could devise a dozen ways to neutralize it with each Pokemon chipping it down like how Ash brought down Drake's Dragonite. The rest of Alain's team is very beatable. This is a 6-5 battle or at worst a close 6-4 in Alain's favor and that too if he calls out Mega Charizard X first. Otherwise, if he saves Mega Charizard X for last or second to last, then Paul will have several Pokemon still active, and it becomes a definite 6-5.
     
    MockingJ likes this.
  18. PokemonBattleFanatic-

    PokemonBattleFanatic- Standby for Battle!

    His Charizard in it's base form can't be that much stronger than Ash's Charizard,Pikachu put up a decent fight against it at the Kalos League.
    What exactly makes Ash's Charizard overrated?
    Did you watch the XY Mega Evolution Specials?
    Paul could easily crush Alain's other 5 pokemon but his Charizard in it's Mega Evolved form is a damn monster,there's a reason I called it the Jiren of the pokemon anime.
     
  19. Doppelgänger

    Doppelgänger Superancient Member

    It's impossible to know just how thoroughly Paul would outplay Alain's team, but his Sinnoh team was weaker than Ash's. Ash used Pikachu while Paul didn't use Torterra. DP Ash is also the second best strategist in the anime, ahead of XY Ash and behind Paul. XY Ash had a weaker team than Alain, but was able to set up an advanteous match of full health Greninja vs weakened Charizard.

    Basically, I would say DP Ash > XY Ash for threat level. So upgrading something like Ninjask for Torterra, Alain has to beat like two (minimum) of Paul's Pokemon with MCX, assuming the same prior damage as in the Kalos League.

    MCX is a powerful boss Pokemon who can win any 1v1 at full health, but it was never shown sweeping powerful trainers, only jobbers like Trevor and the kabuki guy. Even against Lysandre's gauntlet, Alain needed type advantage and items to get through.

    The biggest problem is Charizard took out Greninja easily. If it actually looked like it was on the edge of fainting Paul takes this without question.
     
    R0shan likes this.
  20. PokemonBattleFanatic-

    PokemonBattleFanatic- Standby for Battle!

    It all comes down to which side outweighs the other.Paul's brutal efficiency or Alain's overwhelming power
     

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