Alain vs Paul; Battle Of The Strongest!

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

I'm not low balling
I'm saying we have no estimation for the power boost
I'm not denying he would have gotten stronger bruh
But that other trainers could become even stronger, like Ash and Iris

But why would Iris getting stronger place her above Paul given their background history?Make it make sense.

Suggesting Paul's Torterra/Electivire would flat out lose to Iris's Dragonite/Excadrill is low balling.If his pokemon back then were above hers then it should be applied in Journeys as well since he's still an active trainer.

 

[RafaSceptile]

But why would Iris getting stronger place her above Paul given their background history?

We have not clue and that doesn't matter at all. What we know is that Paul is not in the Masters 8 and Iris is.

And what that info it is realistic for people to believe she can be stronger than Paul, specially when she is the Unova Champion

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

We have not clue and that doesn't matter at all. What we know is that Paul is not in the Masters 8 and Iris is.

And what that info it is realistic for people to believe she can be stronger than Paul, specially when she is the Unova Champion

LMFAO!

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

But why would Iris getting stronger place her above Paul given their background history?Make it make sense.

Suggesting Paul's Torterra/Electivire would flat out lose to Iris's Dragonite/Excadrill is low balling.If his pokemon back then were above hers then it should be applied in Journeys as well since he's still an active trainer.

You need to let go of their BW and DP's portrayals to gauge their battle strength relative to each other in JN
I'm not here to talk about whether it makes sense or not, but what is
The writers chose that, not me. If you think Paul is being low balled blame it on them

 

[Sham]

You need to let go of their BW and DP's portrayals to gauge their battle strength relative to each other in JN
I'm not here to talk about whether it makes sense or not, but what is
The writers chose that, not me. If you think Paul is being low balled blame it on them

Another thing unrelated to this because it’s a general thing that’s always made confused. Can we please stop pretending that Paul is this great strategist trainer when all he’s done is really beat Ash and collected badges? Every single rival of Ash has shown superiority over because that’s their purpose (even weak Trip).

That’s his job to be stronger Ash. At least Alain defeated an Elite Four member and Gladion was known as a great battler and made it to finals of the Alola league. Nostalgia has truly blinded people. I can’t name of one person (besides Barry) that Paul has beaten outside of Ash.

How is Alain vs Paul even a thing at this point or question especially when one of them beat Ash in the finals, had his Charizard destroy a league and won his first league he’s participated in while Paul lost four. Make is make sense.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

You need to let go of their BW and DP's portrayals to gauge their battle strength relative to each other in JN
I'm not here to talk about whether it makes sense or not, but what is
The writers chose that, not me. If you think Paul is being low balled blame it on them

And you just blindly go along with it.Do you support their supposed decision yes or no?

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Another thing unrelated to this because it’s a general thing that’s always made confused. Can we please stop pretending that Paul is this great strategist trainer when all he’s done is really beat Ash and collected badges? Every single rival of Ash has shown superiority over because that’s their purpose (even weak Trip).

Iris is a better strategist than Paul,Conway,Sawyer and Katie because she's the Unova Champion!!

 

[Sham]

Iris is a better strategist than Paul,Conway,Sawyer and Katie because she's the Univa Champion!!

Never said any of that. In fact you can think whatever you want. I’ve been said that people over hype Paul way before the Masters Tournament because the show has told us he’s lost Kanto-Hoenn leagues and he’s only really ever beaten Ash. The topic is about Paul vs Alain.

Idk what “Univa” is but it sounds like it’s irrelevant to this conversation.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Never said any of that. In fact you can think whatever you want. I’ve been said that people over hype Paul way before the Masters Tournament because the show has told us he’s lost Kanto-Hoenn leagues and he’s only really ever beaten Ash. The topic is about Paul vs Alain.

Idk what “Univa” is but it sounds like it’s irrelevant to this conversation.

And who are these people that over hype Paul?You can't count me since I'm only one person.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

And you just blindly go along with it.Do you support their supposed decision yes or no?

If we are discussing who's stronger in the anime, shouldn't we go along with what's actually said, regardless of our feelings on it?

Do I support it? I don't mind the concept of Iris becoming a champion and overtaking Paul, but I do NOT approve of the way they did it, it was too rushed. We needed more time with Iris to justify why she went from her power level in BW to her level in JN, and what source of strength does she seek, like we explored with Ash. I would have preferred that, I would have preferred Paul participating in the PWC.
I don't really care that much whether Paul is better than Iris or not, as long as neither character is demeaned for the sake of it

I'll gladly welcome Paul overtaking Iris in strength in the future if that ever happens, but right now it isn't the case. Heck I'd prefer if Paul is the future Sinnoh champion and someday overtakes Cynthia. I see him as Ash's, the world strongest trainer's, absolute rival, the Raihan to his Leon, the Blue to his Red. I'd love to see Paul grow more, see more of him, see him climb higher and higher, thrash Brandon.

My hope for a future new gen PWC a decade down the line would be Ash as the Alola champ, Iris as the Unova champ, Paul as the Sinnoh champ, Jimmy as the Indigo champ, Alain as the Kalos champ, Hop as the Galar champ, Nemona as the Paldean champ and Max as the Hoenn champ. (Why not for the latter, have him be a prodigy at 10 year old and quickly climb the ranks)

I also really appreciate Paul being a gym leader. Even Raihan is, and he's stronger than a lot of the E4. Being a gym leader means Paul gets to be a leader, an example setter for young trainers helping them grow with his improved methods, a perfect progression for his character from his DP development

 

[Sham]

And who are these people that over hype Paul?You can't count me since I'm only one person.

People in general. I can’t make direct quotations because I don’t them in my notes but nonetheless yes I do believe Alain is stronger than him and no I don’t believe he’s a great strategist. I’m more leaning on that Diantha is the best strategist of the series.

The three out of two people that Paul has face has swept him. Obviously Cynthia was given but even Ash did better against Brandon than he did.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

Another thing unrelated to this because it’s a general thing that’s always made confused. Can we please stop pretending that Paul is this great strategist trainer when all he’s done is really beat Ash and collected badges? Every single rival of Ash has shown superiority over because that’s their purpose (even weak Trip).

That’s his job to be stronger Ash. At least Alain defeated an Elite Four member and Gladion was known as a great battler and made it to finals of the Alola league. Nostalgia has truly blinded people. I can’t name of one person (besides Barry) that Paul has beaten outside of Ash.

How is Alain vs Paul even a thing at this point or question especially when one of them beat Ash in the finals, had his Charizard destroy a league and won his first league he’s participated in while Paul lost four. Make is make sense.

I mean his power strength is another topic but for me Paul definitely is a top strategist, simply coz of all his battles involving him using smart strategies, even if he gets defeated.

 

[Ragnarok4]

finals of the Alola league

It is not a great merit defeat James and a trainer relative to clemont / korrina

Paul is definitely better

 

[Sham]

Paul is definitely better

…Okay that’s fine. I already said what I said. I think he’s overhyped. I’ve said this during most of the series and it has nothing to do with “abusing” but everything to do with me realizing the show doesn’t even confirm he’s that great but instead greater than Ash.

 

[Sham]

I mean his power strength is another topic but for me Paul definitely is a top strategist, simply coz of all his battles involving him using smart strategies, even if he gets defeated.

I still think the screens + Shadow Sneak and Halloween was way better than anything he’s ever produced but perhaps I gotta rewatch the series. Not dismissing him not being strategist but even arguably Cynthia was better and we haven’t seen her use a full team since the PWC.

 

[Ragnarok4]

And who are these people that over hype Paul?You can't count me since I'm only one person.

The problem is that Journeys established that the Top 8 were the best coaches in the world and it's hard to begin to compare when the same narrative is already telling you to your face... So the anime clearly tells you that :

#1 Ash (World Champion)
#2 Leon (Runner-up)
#3 Cynthia
#4 Diantha / Steven (Diantha reached the semifinals, but Steven was in a better position than Diantha before the tournament, so they both share the same place )
....
#6 Lance
#7 Alain
#8 Iris

These are the strongest trainers in the world

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

People in general. I can’t make direct quotations because I don’t them in my notes but nonetheless yes I do believe Alain is stronger than him and no I don’t believe he’s a great strategist. I’m more leaning on that Diantha is the best strategist of the series.

The three out of two people that Paul has face has swept him. Obviously Cynthia was given but even Ash did better against Brandon than he did.

You may see it on reddit or some other website but here I don't see a large group of people over hyping him.

Paul got swept by Cynthia during a time when the powerscaling actually made sense,now Paul would do much better than he did back then.

Ash defeated one of Brandon's Regis but not all 3 at the same time,also I already made the argument as to how Torkoal lasted longer than any of Paul's pokemon in another thread.

Diantha may be a better strategist than Paul but it would be by a small margin,all the strategies we seen throughout the series Paul has done already.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

I still think the screens + Shadow Sneak and Halloween was way better than anything he’s ever produced but perhaps I gotta rewatch the series. Not dismissing him not being strategist but even arguably Cynthia was better and we haven’t seen her use a full team since the PWC.

Diantha and Cynthia and even Leon are absolutely up there in terms of absolute top strategists for sure
But Paul has a big advantage of having more time to show it off compared to the others getting like 1 battle
I can buy those three being better strategists scaling wise, but Paul definitely has been more fun to watch simply coz of the quantity of his strats
Also a rewatch of DP never hurts, peak anipoke

 

[RafaSceptile]

Paul got swept by Cynthia during a time when the powerscaling actually made sense

It didn't, Ash went from defeating Regice to losing to Gary, and then to Paul. That does not scream good powerscaling

 

[Sham]

Paul got swept by Cynthia during a time when the powerscaling actually made sense,now Paul would do much better than he did back then.

I don’t know, they’ve never battled. The same way I don’t know how far Diantha got against Cynthia since it was an offscreen battle. Since we’re so obsessed with power scaling, then fine. Ash barely won against Cynthia who wasn’t even using her ace in its most primal form but he still barely won. If we’re to assume that Paul doesn’t consider himself at Masters Eight level and is a Gym Leader in training then no, I don’t think he’d get really/super close.

Ash defeated one of Brandon's Regis but not all 3 at the same time,also I already made the argument as to how Torkoal lasted longer than any of Paul's pokemon in another thread.

And from what I can remember Paul didn’t defeat any of them. Do you have a battle of him winning outside of Ash and Barry?