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Alain vs Paul; Battle Of The Strongest!

Choose Every Statement That You Agree With


  • Total voters
    76

PokemonBattleFanatic-

Well-Known Member
On another note, why is the list of Pokémon owned by his rivals that you posted incomplete?
I was listing powerhouses
 

PokemonBattleFanatic-

Well-Known Member
So you don‘t think that Alain‘s Tyranitar, a pseudo, or his Weavile that managed to overwhelm Hawlucha despite the 4x weakness belongs on this list? The same can be said for many of Sawyer‘s Pokémon.
I got most of his pokemon,you're just nitpicking like I predicted you'd do.I don't think most of Sawyer's team is that strong but whether if I added Slaking and Aegislash wouldn't have mattered because he still falls short.Without Mega Evolution his team is below both Ash and Paul's teams from the Sinnoh League.
 

GLTSRY

Sorry not sorry for my smugness
I got most of his pokemon,you're just nitpicking like I predicted you'd do.I don't think most of Sawyer's team is that strong but whether if I added Slaking and Aegislash wouldn't have mattered because he still falls short.

It‘s not really nitpicking. You added nearly all of Paul‘s Pokémon, despite some of them not having the feats to back this up, while leaving out other trainers Pokémon without explaining why.
 

PokemonBattleFanatic-

Well-Known Member
It‘s not really nitpicking. You added nearly all of Paul‘s Pokémon, despite some of them not having the feats to back this up, while leaving out other trainers Pokémon without explaining why.
Which of Paul's pokemon that I listed don't have feats to prove that they're powerful?
 

GLTSRY

Sorry not sorry for my smugness
Which of Paul's pokemon that I listed don't have feats to prove that they're powerful?
Gliscor‘s only battle as Paul’s Pokémon is against Ash’s Gligar, which is not the biggest feat. It was powerful in the episode that Paul decided to catch it, but we never saw it again.

Hariyama didn’t do much against Brandon. In the same battle Nidoking, despite ultimately losing quickly too, was at least praised by Brandon. It’s strength could be also debated however, considering that Torkoal of all Pokémon did well against Brandon.

As for Honchkrow, it only battles a Pokémon much stronger than him (Garchomp) or Ash’s NFE members, so I wouldn’t call it a powerhouse either.
 

PokemonBattleFanatic-

Well-Known Member
Gliscor‘s only battle as Paul’s Pokémon is against Ash’s Gligar, which is not the biggest feat. It was powerful in the episode that Paul decided to catch it, but we never saw it again.
It took Murkrow,Weavile and Electabuzz to capture the wild Gliscor who Paul heard about and was impressed by it's power.In it's first battle under the guidance of Paul it easily disposes of Ash's Gligar so it's comfortably above Paul's Ninjask,Gastrodon,Froslass.Had it returned later on it would've still looked strong and had an updated moveset.
Hariyama didn’t do much against Brandon. In the same battle Nidoking, despite ultimately losing quickly too, was at least praised by Brandon. It’s strength could be also debated however, considering that Torkoal of all Pokémon did well against Brandon.
Most of if not all of Paul's bulky pokemon are tanks,this is an unfair example as they were up against Brandon's Regis plus none of them were dodging any of their attacks like Ash's Torkoal was,Nidoking got in the most hits before fainting,Brandon was also impressed by it's power.Had these pokemon faced Ash or any normal trainer/gym leader they'd have a better showing.I honestly believe those Regis got stronger since they were last seen battling Ash in late AG.
Gliscor‘s only battle as Paul’s Pokémon is against Ash’s Gligar, which is not the biggest feat. It was powerful in the episode that Paul decided to catch it, but we never saw it again.

Hariyama didn’t do much against Brandon. In the same battle Nidoking, despite ultimately losing quickly too, was at least praised by Brandon. It’s strength could be also debated however, considering that Torkoal of all Pokémon did well against Brandon.

As for Honchkrow, it only battles a Pokémon much stronger than him (Garchomp) or Ash’s NFE members, so I wouldn’t call it a powerhouse either.
So why didn't you mention Magmortar then?It's only win in late DP was against Barry's Skarmory outside of that it took a ton of damage from Barry's Hydro Cannon along with taking hits from Ash's Pikachu and Buizel at Lake Acuity.But these examples just proves they're powerhouses,they have lot of endurance and had good showings on screen.

If you don't consider Honchkrow a powerhouse then I can't consider Ash's Swellow one either.Honchkrow has just as much endurance as Swellow does,has a much better moveset than Swellow and has the ability Super Luck,Swellow just has better speed.

Aggron,Weavile,Froslass,Ninjask and Gastrodon didn't impress me much so Honchkrow and Magmortar are definitely above those pokemon.

Even if I leave out Honchkrow,Nidoking,Gliscor and Hariyama Paul still has Sawyer beat in powerhouses which is just a flat out indisputable fact.
 

GLTSRY

Sorry not sorry for my smugness
Most of if not all of Paul's bulky pokemon are tanks,this is an unfair example as they were up against Brandon's Regis plus none of them were dodging any of their attacks like Ash's Torkoal was,Nidoking got in the most hits before fainting,Brandon was also impressed by it's power.Had these pokemon faced Ash or any normal trainer/gym leader they'd have a better showing.I honestly believe those Regis got stronger since they were last seen battling Ash in late AG.
That’s the issue with such Pokémon though, they are too big to dodge attacks.
So why didn't you mention Magmortar then?It's only win in late DP was against Barry's Skarmory outside of that it took a ton of damage from Barry's Hydro Cannon along with taking hits from Ash's Pikachu and Buizel at Lake Acuity.
Because I frankly couldn’t remember if there was any other battle where it was used or not. If I’m not sure about something, than I won’t mention it at all.
Even if I leave out Honchkrow,Nidoking,Gliscor and Hariyama Paul still has Sawyer beat in powerhouses which is just a flat out indisputable fact.
I don’t argue with this, that is indeed true. I just opposed the idea that Sawyer’s only powerhouses are Sceptile and Clawitzer. Especially Clawitzer was a surprise, considering that Slaking and Salamance tanked super effective hits and Aegislash could hold his own against Pikachu. I personally wouldn’t have mentioned Clawitzer.
 

PokemonBattleFanatic-

Well-Known Member
That’s the issue with such Pokémon though, they are too big to dodge attacks.
But this is what impressed me about Paul and his pokemon,he rarely commands them to dodge attacks,they're seen taking hits and then shrugging it off.It's like he used this battle style he implemented with his Torterra and then added it for the rest of his pokemon.
Because I frankly couldn’t remember if there was any other battle where it was used or not. If I’m not sure about something, than I won’t mention it at all.
Paul's Murkrow was more than likely stronger than Elekid,Weavile and Chimchar in early DP.Elekid was KO'ed by Chimchar in a flashback (Tears for Fears).

It defeated gym leader Maylene's Machoke/Meditite while Magmar defeated her Lucario.

Ninjask was captured by Paul using his Elekid in a flashback (Glory Blaze) while it took the efforts of Murkrow,Electabuzz and Weavile to take down Gliscor so that tells you Gliscor is at a higer level than Ninjask but for some reason the writers decided not to bring it back during the Sinnoh League.
 

Kuzehiko

That moment I found a lifetime treasure
Paul's only issue is Alain's MCX,I don't think he has an answer for that,but he hard counters the rest of Alain's lineup due to having more team depth.
Yeah I forgot to add IF Paul uses a gimmick.
Paul is better than Alain in all departments, he is smarter, more tactical and has variety of powerhouses that can might use gimmicks easily.
 

PokemonBattleFanatic-

Well-Known Member
Yeah something like that/close to that.
Maybe Dynamax Torterra would be a gimmick.( I can see final battle like Dynamax Torterra vs MCX where Torterra wins).
With how Paul treats his pokemon in his return + his work ethic to get stronger I'd be more convinced of Paul standing a chance at beating Alain's MCX if his Torterra or Electivire had a gimmick considering they're his 2 best pokemon.

Electivire nearly swept Ash's team and was still standing after clashing with Blaze Ape's Flare Blitz before eventually fainting.It also has versatility where it can use Thunder in different ways,use defensive moves like protect and light screen,use it's tails for grabbing,paralyze the opponent with static and increase it's speed with Motor Drive ability.

Torterra was rarely used but when it was in battle it delivered for the most part,I considered it to be Paul's version of Ash's Charizard.What it lacks in speed it made up for having a lot of raw power,due to it's weakneses it'd rely on powerful moves like Hyper Beam/Frenzy Plant to finish off it's opponents to avoid having long drawn out battles and Giga Drain to recover some of it's health.
 

Xena needs Xex

Active Member
Even if half of Alain's Pokemon resist it, Paul's toxic spikes strategy is overpowered. Especially if you look at how strong other status effects, like burn on Steven and Paul's Metagross was. Toxic spikes was wrecking Ash and I think we all remember Roxanne utilizing poison to cripple Ash's team. It's really powerful.

If Paul leads with Drapion and spams toxic spikes, it will wipe out Weavile, Chesnaught, Tyranitar when they come in and Alain won't have an Ashpull to dig up the spikes and negate the effect. This will drag Alain into his Kalos league strategy of trying to finish the battle with just Metagross and Charizard, who can get around being poisoned through typing and the ability to fly. This will be all according to keikaku for Paul, who will likely have planned for such an occurrence as we know he's a studier. Magmortar could probably take down Metagross and he could trap Alainzard with destiny bond from Frosslass. The whole battle would hinge on him being able to nudge those two out of the way. The rest don't really stand a chance.

Not to mention that Paul is a fan of using screens to cut damage in half. This, along with the toxic spikes strategy is bad news for Alain, whose Pokemon would be slowly choking while they attempt in vain to chip away at Paul's Pokemon. Forget Frosslass, if Alainzard is the more powerful blasto bahhn variant, then Electivire is a good candidate to take him down on its own. He can set a light screen up to cut the damage and he can reel Charizard in to drag him into the poisonous battlefield. Paul is likely to take advantage of the need to recharge too.
 

PokemonBattleFanatic-

Well-Known Member
Even if half of Alain's Pokemon resist it, Paul's toxic spikes strategy is overpowered. Especially if you look at how strong other status effects, like burn on Steven and Paul's Metagross was. Toxic spikes was wrecking Ash and I think we all remember Roxanne utilizing poison to cripple Ash's team. It's really powerful.

If Paul leads with Drapion and spams toxic spikes, it will wipe out Weavile, Chesnaught, Tyranitar when they come in and Alain won't have an Ashpull to dig up the spikes and negate the effect. This will drag Alain into his Kalos league strategy of trying to finish the battle with just Metagross and Charizard, who can get around being poisoned through typing and the ability to fly. This will be all according to keikaku for Paul, who will likely have planned for such an occurrence as we know he's a studier. Magmortar could probably take down Metagross and he could trap Alainzard with destiny bond from Frosslass. The whole battle would hinge on him being able to nudge those two out of the way. The rest don't really stand a chance.

Not to mention that Paul is a fan of using screens to cut damage in half. This, along with the toxic spikes strategy is bad news for Alain, whose Pokemon would be slowly choking while they attempt in vain to chip away at Paul's Pokemon. Forget Frosslass, if Alainzard is the more powerful blasto bahhn variant, then Electivire is a good candidate to take him down on its own. He can set a light screen up to cut the damage and he can reel Charizard in to drag him into the poisonous battlefield. Paul is likely to take advantage of the need to recharge too.
Toxic Spikes,Static and Flamebody would really f*ck up Alain's team if Paul abuses switching,I could definitely see Paul using Froslass's Destiny Bond on Alain's Charizard but something tells me that it wouldn't work.Paul retaught Electivire Brick Break during the Sinnoh League so I don't see why it couldn't relearn Light Screen which would help with protection for the rest of Paul's lineup.He still has the counter shield strategy in his back pocket that he could implement with his Electivire/Gastrodon and his Magmortar can use Rock Tomb as a shield against attacks while forming a suprise attack (Smog from above).
 

GLTSRY

Sorry not sorry for my smugness
Even if half of Alain's Pokemon resist it, Paul's toxic spikes strategy is overpowered. Especially if you look at how strong other status effects, like burn on Steven and Paul's Metagross was. Toxic spikes was wrecking Ash and I think we all remember Roxanne utilizing poison to cripple Ash's team. It's really powerful.

If Paul leads with Drapion and spams toxic spikes, it will wipe out Weavile, Chesnaught, Tyranitar when they come in and Alain won't have an Ashpull to dig up the spikes and negate the effect. This will drag Alain into his Kalos league strategy of trying to finish the battle with just Metagross and Charizard, who can get around being poisoned through typing and the ability to fly. This will be all according to keikaku for Paul, who will likely have planned for such an occurrence as we know he's a studier. Magmortar could probably take down Metagross and he could trap Alainzard with destiny bond from Frosslass. The whole battle would hinge on him being able to nudge those two out of the way. The rest don't really stand a chance.
Charizard, Metagross, Bisharp and Unfezant automatically resist Toxic Spikes due to game mechanics while Malamar would have to be slammed to the ground as it floats in the anime. His Charizard and Metagross swept through the Kalos League and Metagross was even clowning on Peakachu, so I doubt Magmortar - whom I don’t consider to be one of Paul’s stronger members - could take him down even with the type advantage. Anyways, Bisharp easily defeated Goodra and Hawlucha while Unfezant managed to draw with Talonflame, who was a tank during XY and arguably is Ash‘s strongest regional bird. As for Malamar, Alain trusted it enough to be the Leonzard counter and it easily dodged the Air Slash, so it definitely is a strong Pokémon too. So I strongly disagree that Alain’s team wouldn't stand a chance.

Besides, Alain was able to react to and counter Rillaboom’s G-Max on the spot, so I doubt that he‘d be helpless when faced with entry hazards.
Not to mention that Paul is a fan of using screens to cut damage in half. This, along with the toxic spikes strategy is bad news for Alain, whose Pokemon would be slowly choking while they attempt in vain to chip away at Paul's Pokemon. Forget Frosslass, if Alainzard is the more powerful blasto bahhn variant, then Electivire is a good candidate to take him down on its own. He can set a light screen up to cut the damage and he can reel Charizard in to drag him into the poisonous battlefield. Paul is likely to take advantage of the need to recharge too.
MC-X has enough defensive capabilities to defeat 10 ME’s in a row, the tenth being an E4 ace, or to withstand AG after fighting Pikachu. So I highly, highly, highly doubt that Electivire can take him down on his own, especially when Alain uses ME to change its typings. Additionally, MC-X has enough offensive capabilities even in his base form to one-shot Leon’s Rillaboom. The same Rillaboom that defeated 4 of Diantha’s Pokémon on its own, tanking a super effective Fire Blast, and who despite all of this was unfazed by Guardevoir’s Shadow Ball.

Alain vs Paul would be a spectacular battle, no doubt about that, but taking the Master Tournament feats into consideration, I rate Alain half a tier above Paul. Paul is a very skilled tactician and excellent at raising his Pokémon, no doubt, but he has no Pokémon on the same level as MC-X and he also has less experience than Alain, especially when it comes to battling at the highest stage.
 
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