Alain vs Paul; Battle Of The Strongest!

[Sham]

 

[SkyBlaze9125]

One thing I like to say: just because Ash Dragonite beat Iris Haxorus once… does not guarantee it will beat Iris Haxorus again.

 

[SkyBlaze9125]

Not enough to put a huge gap between her and Paul.

All that was added to Iris post BW was her becoming Unova Champion.Ash and Alain made the M8 and they were non champions.

Apparently you forgot Ash is Alola Champion but the league was just mostly nobodies + 3 good trainers?

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Didn't participate in PWC because is an introvert,therefore Person A is automatically STRONGER than Person B.

Apparently you forgot Ash is Alola Champion but the league was just mostly nobodies + 3 good trainers?

Does that even count?Who was the champion before?

 

[Vernikova]

Not enough to put a huge gap between her and Paul.

I didn't say there waa a hige gap. He's in the "can give a fight" tier.

All that was added to Iris post BW was her becoming Unova Champion.Ash and Alain made the M8 and they were non champions.

Ash defeated Iris, Wallace, and Leon's rival before making it to M8, so he's at a super strong level. That Alain was also able to make it despite not being a champion is an accomplishment for him, not a snub for the rest of the M8 and their strength. Besides, some think he was on Diantha's level eith his Mega in XY anyway.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

I didn't say there waa a hige gap. He's in the "can give a fight" tier.

So that means they're both in the same tier.

Ash defeated Iris, Wallace, and Leon's rival before making it to M8, so he's at a super strong level.

And he did all that with little to no on screen training.

 

[RafaSceptile]

Does that even count?Who was the champion before?

It does, Kukui was the strongest trainer in the region, which is basically the Alola Champion (similar to the games, in which Kukui is an E4 level trainer at least)

 

[Vernikova]

So that means they're both in the same tier.

Not necessarily for reasons that I've already explained. "Give a fight" is vague. It doesn't describe the level of difficulty given--it could be low difficulty, high difficulty, mid, extreme, etc. Paul's feat is just a training battle, which is nice but it doesn't have the same level of seriousness or possibly even effort that a tournament match would bring, so it's not up to par with other battles on its own.

And he did all that with little to no on screen training.

Yes. However, we have feats that demonstrate he's at this level is proper competitive environments. The Wallace win adds more evidence to the Iris and Raihan wins, where we see a pattern of consistency of performing at that level from Ash.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

It does, Kukui was the strongest trainer in the region, which is basically the Alola Champion (similar to the games, in which Kukui is an E4 level trainer at least)

I don't think so because it says "Alola League Champion" not Alola Champion,Kukui being the strongest trainer in the region prior to Ash isn't saying much and that Tapu Koko isn't even his.None of Ash's Alola pokemon were E4 level either.

Not necessarily for reasons that I've already explained. "Give a fight" is vague. It doesn't describe the level of difficulty given--it could be low difficulty, high difficulty, mid, extreme, etc. Paul's feat is just a training battle, which is nice but it doesn't have the same level of seriousness or possibly even effort that a tournament match would bring, so it's not up to par with other battles on its own.

So what makes you think Iris is doing better than Paul would given the fact that she has no gimmicks,her Haxorus was already defeated before facing Cynthia and is lacking in firepower?All that you can really go by is her being in the M8 and being Unova Champion.On paper she should be stronger than Paul but eyetest and feats says otherwise.

 

[SkyBlaze9125]

There was no Alola League until Kukui founded one and Ash became its First Champion.

Kukui is just the strongest trainer in the Battle Royale Dome which doesn’t exactly meant anything

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

There was no Alola League until Kukui founded one and Ash became its First Champion.

Kukui is just the strongest trainer in the Battle Royale Dome which doesn’t exactly meant anything

That's It?

 

[RafaSceptile]

I don't think so because it says "Alola League Champion" not Alola Champion,

Ash is presented as the First Champion of Alola. Kukui being the previous strongest trainer of the region is basically the equivalent of a champion (and followed by the games)

 

[Vernikova]

So what makes you think Iris is doing better than Paul would given the fact that she has no gimmicks,her Haxorus was already defeated before facing Cynthia and is lacking in firepower?All that you can really go by is her being in the M8 and being Unova Champion.On paper she should be stronger than Paul but eyetest and feats says otherwise.

As I've already explained, getting into the M8 is a feat. That's better than Paul's best feat (losing to Ash in a training battle). Losing to Cynthia's as she uses a Mega while using no gimmick in the quarterfinals is better than losing to Ash on even footing in a training battle.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Ash is presented as the First Champion of Alola. Kukui being the previous strongest trainer of the region is basically the equivalent of a champion (and followed by the games)

I'm pretty sure Alain can beat him without even Mega Evolving his Charizard unless Kukui resorts to using a pokemon that isn't even his.

As I've already explained, getting into the M8 is a feat. That's better than Paul's best feat (losing to Ash in a training battle). Losing to Cynthia's as she uses a Mega while using no gimmick in the quarterfinals is better than losing to Ash on even footing in a training battle.

What did Iris do before making the M8?Yeah Lucario and Gengar marginally won after learning new moves.You're ignoring that Paul has other pokemon besides the 3 he used in that training battle so I can't say it was equal footing.

 

[RafaSceptile]

I'm pretty sure Alain can beat him without even Mega Evolving his Charizard unless Kukui resorts to using a pokemon that isn't even his.

You can believe what you want but using the "Does that even count?" card when the anime itself showed that it does only shows you either didn't watch the anime or your bias does not allow you to be more objective.

 

[Vernikova]

What did Iris do before making the M8?Yeah Lucario and Gengar marginally won after learning new moves.You're ignoring that Paul has other pokemon besides the 3 he used in that training battle so I can't say it was equal footing.

In JN, prior to the M8, she lost to Ash, who hadn't lost an official battle even prior to battling Iris and went on to win the entire event. As I've said, her combination of feats, statements, and portrayal give her the edge. Is there something in particular that you wanted to point out about her prior to the M8?

I'm not ignoring that. I mentioned that already in a previous post. The powerlevel of his "A team" isn't known. You can say Electivire is stronger because ots his ace, but that doesn't follow that the rest of the A team is a cut above. I also want to point out the ridiculousness of Paul having an "A team" just because it was the team he used in the Sinnoh League when it's knowm that he changes teams depending on his opponent, especially since Paul had to anticipate Tobias in the next round. I guess Paul was going to use his B team for that one?

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

You can believe what you want but using the "Does that even count?" card when the anime itself showed that it does only shows you either didn't watch the anime or your bias does not allow you to be more objective.

So because he was Alola League Champion you're saying he should be in the same class as actual champions like Cynthia,Steven,Diantha and Lance.I guess Tyson and Virgil are in the same ballpark too.

In JN, prior to the M8, she lost to Ash, who hadn't lost an official battle even prior to battling Iris and went on to win the entire event. As I've said, her combination of feats, statements, and portrayal give her the edge. Is there something in particular that you wanted to point out about her prior to the M8?

I'm not ignoring that. I mentioned that already in a previous post. The powerlevel of his "A team" isn't known. You can say Electivire is stronger because ots his ace, but that doesn't follow that the rest of the A team is a cut above. I also want to point out the ridiculousness of Paul having an "A team" just because it was the team he used in the Sinnoh League when it's knowm that he changes teams depending on his opponent, especially since Paul had to anticipate Tobias in the next round. I guess Paul was going to use his B team for that one?

Iris is only superior on paper and no Paul had no regional team like Ash did but his strongest were clearly TEDUMH.Electivire being his ace is subjective,his Torterra is up there as well.

 

[RafaSceptile]

So because he was Alola League Champion you're saying he should be in the same class as actual champions like Cynthia,Steven,Diantha and Lance.I guess Tyson and Virgil are in the same ballpark too.

No, I said it is something that definitely should count. Two entirely different things.

Also neither Tyson or Virgil were Champions of a region or the strongest trainers of their region.

 

[Vernikova]

Iris is only superior on paper and no Paul had no regional team like Ash did but his strongest were clearly TEDUMH.Electivire being his ace is subjective,his Torterra is up there as well.

"Clearly strongest" on what grounds?

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

No, I said it is something that definitely should count. Two entirely different things.

Also neither Tyson or Virgil were Champions of a region or the strongest trainers of their region.

"League" Champion which is the same as Ash.All 3 won in a pokemon league.Ash being the strongest trainer of the Alola region doesn't mean jack sh*t compared to the likes of Cynthia,Lance and Steven.

"Clearly strongest" on what grounds?

On DP grounds