Alas, Poor Starters

[Skater Trainer]

If a Pokemon has its own niche to keep itself separate from its other bretherens, then they both should've co-exist on the same tier. Examples of this are Dragonite and Salamence, Machamp and Conkedurr, and Jirachi and Metagross.

This post has no real relevance to what I am saying. Stop trying to play competitive when you aren't good. Stick to where it doesn't matter and stop trying to be smart.

 

[Dattebayo]

Dragonite and Salamence function differently. Salamence is a sweeper where as Dragonite is more of a tank. Dragonite also has access to a few moves Salamence doesn't such as Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Thunder Wave, Heal Bell, Extremespeed and Aqua Jet. On top of that, Dragonite has Multiscale.

Machamp has the ability to ResTalk and has 100% Stone Edge and of course, Dynamicpunch. It has a niche in those areas meaning it isn't totally outclassed by Conkeldurr. People still use Machamp.

Jirachi can be a Wish Passer, use the Flinchrachi set(very annoying), be a special attacker and has access to a plethora of moves Metagross doesn't. How is it outclassed?

Are there any Pokemon that share the exact same roles but have their own niches to co-exist in OU? All I can think about now is Swampert and Gastrodon, but Gastrodon's most likely gonna be UU again despite its new DW ability.

This post has no real relevance to what I am saying. Stop trying to play competitive when you aren't good. Stick to where it doesn't matter and stop trying to be smart.

But I want to play competitively if I want to play against experts instead of little kids who give their Pokemon poor moveset choices, making them too easy for me to beat.

 

[Inchtall]

I began to stop using Starters after I began looking at stats... I compare sometimes.

 

[Serenna]

But I want to play competitively if I want to play against experts instead of little kids who give their Pokemon poor moveset choices, making them too easy for me to beat.

And what's stopping you?

Seriously?

You can use your starters in OU, at any evolution stage. Just have to find your preferred battle strategy and get 6 Pokemon to execute said strategy.

Just because the Pokemon isn't listed in OU doesn't mean it's not OU material. You have to get that line of thinking out of your head.

 

[SomeoneIGuess]

Venusaur: Chlorophyll + Growth = +2 Atk, SAtk, and Spd within 1 turn = Sweep
Blastoise: Could work as a lead since it has Fake Out, Aqua Jet, etc, with sufficient bulk to take on pretty much anything else and stop set-up leads with rapid spin
Charizard: Solar Power + STAB + Specs = Most powerful thing to blast stuff really hard.
Meganium: Leech Seed, Dual Screens, Counter, Aromatherapy, etc = Support
Feraligator: More Powerful Gyarados with it's DW ability, without the 4x weakness
Typhlosion: Eruption = Overpowered.
Sceptile: Subseed
Swampert: What else d'ya want?
Blaziken: He's freakin' banned from OU D:
Torterra: Anything that tries to Ice Beam you will be KOed switching in anyway
Empoleon: You don't want to know how good this guy pairs with Zapdos
Infernape: Anti-lead, SD/NP Sweeper, blahblahblah
Serperior: Yeah, he's overpowered after 3 Leaf Storms.
Samurott: Awesome movepool, wall breaker
Emboar: Ok this guy is awesome when it comes to breaking walls. better than blaziken last gen. I think.
...
Staraptor: Life Orb + Brave Bird/Double-Edge recoil x2 = 20% HP. Endeavor then, and yeah. @Down: It's not a strategy at all. Just a theory. Still gotta test it
Ideally I switch in with my 20%, and while he switches to his wall, Wham, and they are at 20%

All the starters have Water Pledge and ETC, not to mention those Hyper Beam- style moves (Which are crap, so don't use them).

 

[Mister_SGG]

^This points out all the starters' good points. There are a lot of bad points you left out, like Charizard's crippling SR weakness, that when added to Solar Power's recoil, he's gonna be getting KOed pretty easily. And with your Staraptor strategy, there a little odds that when it's at 20% HP, the opponent won't finish you off.

 

[SynchronizeTime]

But I want to play competitively if I want to play against experts instead of little kids who give their Pokemon poor moveset choices, making them too easy for me to beat.

Then just do it? Just because your dream team isn't in the OU Tier, doesn't mean you can't use it. Just like the above few poster said, it's all about strategy. It doesn't mean that you take a full fledge team of all OU and you can start raping. It doesn't work like that.

The experts doesn't stick to OU Pokemon sometimes, they use their favourite Pokemon and execute their strategies. Instead of whining, why don't you try it out?

Harping on the same sentence isn't going to get you far. What if they don't improve? Look, face the fact. Gamefreak don't give a damn about the tiers. Or for that matter, the competitive battling scene. They made tons of Pokemon stronger than our Starters. The Starters only seems powerful because they are the first Pokemon we ever receive in our game, making it precious.

There isn't any rule saying that Starters sucks, don't use it in competitive or you will lose. Try out your Dream Team and have fun. You said you want to play with experts and not little kids who give Hyper Beam to every Pokemon. Then do it.

Winning isn't everything. Losing isn't the end of tomorrow.

 

[Dattebayo]

Harping on the same sentence isn't going to get you far. What if they don't improve? Look, face the fact. Gamefreak don't give a damn about the tiers. Or for that matter, the competitive battling scene.

EVs, IVs, Natures, Battle Frontier, and Official tournaments. Yeah, GF doesn't really care about the competitive scene at all.

There isn't any rule saying that Starters sucks, don't use it in competitive or you will lose.

I thought you said I can use the starters in competitive if I have a good strategy for them?

Winning isn't everything. Losing isn't the end of tomorrow.

It does for Stop Having Fun Guys, and losing will drive them to suicide.

 

[Lulu_used_SunnyDay]

It doesn't mean that you take a full fledge team of all OU and you can start raping. It doesn't work like that.

Ummm, yes it does? You can play smart all you want with your dear UU and NN, but the sad truth is even a noob can beat 'em all with a team of fairly well trained OUs. And THAT is what Datte thinks it's annoying, and he has every right to. Am I the only one here that understood this?

 

[Agonist]

Ummm, yes it does? You can play smart all you want with your dear UU and NN, but the sad truth is even a noob can beat 'em all with a team of fairly well trained OUs. And THAT is what Datte thinks it's annoying, and he has every right to. Am I the only one here that understood this?

No, because if you play right with your uu/nu team, you can beat an Ou team, especially if you're playing an inexpierenced player.

 

[SynchronizeTime]

EVs, IVs, Natures, Battle Frontier, and Official tournaments. Yeah, GF doesn't really care about the competitive scene at all.



I thought you said I can use the starters in competitive if I have a good strategy for them?



It does for Stop Having Fun Guys, and losing will drive them to suicide.

Perhaps you got me wrong. What I meant is that there isn't any claims that using starters will guarantee you a loss.

Plus, not everybody can rape with OU team, don't be naive. Competitive battling isn't just using the Pokemon in OU or whatever. It takes skill and you need to play smart. This is a proven fact.

 

[Blue Harvest]

I thought you said I can use the starters in competitive if I have a good strategy for them?

You can use all starters in OU as long as you play well... except Meganium.. Meganium really sucks. Bad.

Dattebayo you should take a few hours and ACTUALLY PLAY competitive Pokemon. All you do is try to speak on behalf of Smogon despite the fact that you do not go there (I think) nor do you play. I think it would do you good to learn what the game is actually about.

 

[Lulu_used_SunnyDay]

No, because if you play right with your uu/nu team, you can beat an Ou team, especially if you're playing an inexpierenced player.

Right, if an experienced player with a UU and NU team is against a tard player with a OU team, he's got some chances of winning, but the fact is that:
Experienced player with UU < Experienced player with OU

 

[Blue Harvest]

Right, if an experienced player with a UU and NU team is against a tard player with a OU team, he's got some chances of winning, but the fact is that:
Experienced player with UU < Experienced player with OU

No.

Experienced player with gimmick crap like Ariados and Jigglypuff < Experienced player with OU

UUs can be used, its just people seem to think if you aren't using a team full of OUs you have to run 6 UUs for some reason.

 

[Gamefreak]

Venusaur is actually a very good pokemon in gen 4 OU. Those bog standard Fire/Water/Grass cores make it a very welcome addition.

It has Sleep Powder, great special bulk, the ability to absorb Toxic Spikes, Sludge Bomb to rape other grass pokemon, and the ability to take on stuff like Breloom + more.

 

[Clubinhand]

It does for Stop Having Fun Guys, and losing will drive them to suicide.

Calm down buddy I don't like reading things like this for a second. Personally I just play 2 twice a week at best, maybe you need to take a breather as well.

Thing I've noticed about you is you seem to want all your favorite Pokemon to be able to be massively powerful sweepers like excadrill or garchomp. Truthfully if every pokemon was like that this game would suck. There I said it, there much less strategy when that becomes the scene where one player can cause a sudden sweep with anything out of nowhere.

I realize that's the nature of what actually happens in game to an extent so little kids lack some understanding of strategy. I don't want to go deeper into this subject so I'll just let that stew.

 

[Swagga09]

Sceptile WAS a good pokemon until the physical/special split.

 

[Mowz]

EVs, IVs, Natures, Battle Frontier, and Official tournaments. Yeah, GF doesn't really care about the competitive scene at all.

Would you rather every Pokemon within a species be exactly the same? Hence, EVs and IVs. Battle Frontier? Get BP for items and have some strategic fun without it being a bunch of level 100s sweeping the E4. Tournaments? Don't most big games have those?

Once again... I'll bold, underline, italicize and increase the size of this so you get it.
Tiers are based on usage.

They constantly change depending on new strategies, new threats, etc. Just because your starter isn't a top-tier OU doesn't mean it's bad. Heck, I used a Mantine and Wormadam-G (on separate teams, and I do not recommend using the latter) in Gen4 UU and had a good record. I saw OU teams with Miltank that destroyed me. Several Pokemon, such as Spiritomb and Milotic, were great early Gen4 OU 'mons, and then sunk to UU.

 

[SomeoneIGuess]

You could use a special Rhyperior if you wanted to... no joke. 229 SAtk + Lightningrod + Cell Battery + Switch onto an electric move = 458 SAtk
And his special movepool is so freakin' diverse. Just because stats are shit doesn't mean you can't sweep.

Even my OU team almost defeated a uber team (Lost to a Mewtwo by 20% HP)
Tiers don't mean anything. It's impossible to assemble a uber team without OU's, and good OU teams usually carry a few UU's as well

 

[Agonist]

Sceptile WAS a good pokemon until the physical/special split.

When did it stop being a good pokemon?