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Alder's Typing?

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Ememew

Emerald Mew
No, Steven went up to Level 70's in Emerald.

The point still stands, though, that while he was champion (R/S), his Pokemon were not that high in level, so an unevolved Pokemon like Metang would not have been out of the question. Especially considering the previous two Elite 4 members had Sealeo and Shellgon on their teams. He could have mono-typed by that (or by having multiples of the same Pokemon as the Elite 4 before him did, again, Sealeo, plus Dusklops and Bannette, and Flygon as well in R/S). He did not do so and instead had three non-steel members of his team, two of which could not even learn Steel moves (Claydol and Cradilly). He did not use either tactic, which was used by other Elite 4 in Hoenn, nor did he use Mawile or Magneton which were both available, to create a mono-type team and instead has three non-steels.

Yet he is seen as a Steel Champion, nonetheless.

Steven (Steel-trainer) = 3 Steels (Metagross*, Skarmory, and Aggron), one non-Steel with a Steel move (Armaldo), 2 non-Steels without Steel moves (Claydol and Cradilly). Name apparently comes from Steel. Referred to as Steel trainer in-game.

Alder (Bug-user?) = 3 Bugs (Volcarona*, Accelgor, and Escavalier), one non-Bug with a Bug move (Bouffalant), 2 non-Bugs without Bug moves (Druddigon, and Vanilluxe). Name may come from "Alder moth." Not referred to as a Bug-trainer in-game.

Team-wise, Steven is as much a Steel-trainer as Alder is a Bug-trainer. The difference is Alder is not referred to as one within the game, so it is up in the air at the moment as to whether Gamefreak intended him to be seen as a Bug or Multi-type trainer. Unless the 3rd-game specifically refers to him as a Bug-trainer/multi-type trainer, or significantly alters his team to have more Bugs/non-Bugs, it will remain unconfirmed and the best guess would be "multi-type." But basing the idea on his team alone is incorrect.

* = Signature Pokemon
 
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I know I'm quoting the second reply to the thread, but still

But a Bug type leader might be a little underwhelming.

Well, both Alder's team and battle theme are less than underwhelming, so it fits him nicely.
 

thetifftiff

Well-Known Member
Alder is mostly random, it is odd that he favors bugs though. Notice that two of them are the ones you have to trade with each other to evolve? Maybe there is a reason he has those two specifically.

A bug type champion would be pretty cool but I really prefer champions to use a mix of types. Lance was cool but it was dragon champion with dragon last gym leader (same thing with Emerald and water) which is so boring. But even if the typing is completely different from any gym leader (see Ruby/Sapphire) it's still not as interesting as a champion who mixes everything up.

What I really want with bugs is a female bug specialist. So if the next champion is a girl, yes give her bugs. Girls like bug (pokemon) too... except Misty apparently.
 

Grei

not the color
We're still debating this? He's not a Bug-type Champion. Steven Stone actually has qualities about him that relate to his Steel affinity. What bug qualities does Alder have? Seriously?

Steven had the two fossil Pokemon because they related to stones and ore, which was Steven's "thing" as a Steel-type Champion. Regardless of if they were Steel-types or not, they still related to Steven's theme. If Alder's theme is "bugs," then why the hell does he have a buffalo, a dragon, and an ice cream cone?

Besides, we never get a Champion who specializes in the same type as another Gym Leader within the same League. Juan and Wallace is an exception, because the original Champion was Steel-typed, and once Wallace replaced him, Juan took Wallace's place in the Water-type Gym.

Alder is a various-type Champion. I'm thinking they ditched the mono-type idea after Wallace.
 

Ememew

Emerald Mew
We're still debating this? He's not a Bug-type Champion. Steven Stone actually has qualities about him that relate to his Steel affinity. What bug qualities does Alder have? Seriously?

Steven had the two fossil Pokemon because they related to stones and ore, which was Steven's "thing" as a Steel-type Champion. Regardless of if they were Steel-types or not, they still related to Steven's theme. If Alder's theme is "bugs," then why the hell does he have a buffalo, a dragon, and an ice cream cone?

Besides, we never get a Champion who specializes in the same type as another Gym Leader within the same League. Juan and Wallace is an exception, because the original Champion was Steel-typed, and once Wallace replaced him, Juan took Wallace's place in the Water-type Gym.

Alder is a various-type Champion. I'm thinking they ditched the mono-type idea after Wallace.

Clair and Lance in HG/SS don't count because . . .?

EDIT: I'm not saying Alder is one (if you see my earlier post, I point out the similarities between Alder and Steven, but made sure to add that he was never referred to as a Bug-specialist the way Steven was called a Steel-specialist.
 

Grei

not the color
Clair and Lance in HG/SS don't count because . . .?

Oh, forgot about them.

Though you could argue that Johto doesn't have a League, and that it just uses Kanto's. When you have sixteen types in a League, it's impossible for the Elite Four to not overlap on those types. In general, though, Gym Leaders and E4 members have types that do not overlap.
 

Ememew

Emerald Mew
Still, I'm not sure how much we can "generalize" about 5 generations . . .

1- Champ was rival, multitype.
2- Lance, Dragon-specialist.
3- Water (Wallace) or Steel (Steven) specialist champ (depending on Emerald/RS)
4- Multi-type Champion Cynthia

So up to Gen V (which is apparently still in debate) it was an even split between specialists and multi-typers, unless you count Ruby/Sapphire as separate from Emerald, in which case it favors specialists. (I use "specialist" instead of "mono-type" because Lance and Steven used non-Dragons/Steels. The only pure mono-typer was Wallace).

Huh, on that note, I thought of something: could Alder be considered a "specialist" in Bug, with "specialist" being the key term rather than "monotyper" like the Gym Leaders? Still, I get what you're saying about him not showing other "buggy" characteristics the way Steven was interested in stones/ore.

EDIT: Obviously replying to the "ditched the mono-type idea" part rather than the "usually don't overlap" part. But still:

1- no overlap.
2- Dragon and Fighting overlap, if Kanto is counted, Poison, Psychic overlap too.
3- Water overlap (Emerald only)
4- no overlap.

Again, even (unless you count R/S and E separately, favoring no-overlap) it's even up to the debated Gen V.
 
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XXD17

Draco rex
I'm pretty sure Alder doesn't have a specific type considering that he is a champion and all previous champions are mixed unless they had prior associations...generation 1, blue was champ and he had a mixed team and followed a theme of balanced rivalry since he formed his team around your team; generation 2, Lance was champion and he had predominantly dragons mainly because he used to be an elite four member who specialized in dragons, however, not every pokemon, such as charizard or aerodactyl, on his team is of the dragon type but all are dragonic following a dragon theme; generation 3.1, Steven was champion and although he had mostly steel types, he also had rock types so there wasn't specification either just a theme of pokemon associated with the earth; generation 3.2, wallace was champion, his team was mainly water because he used to be a water type gym leader so it obviously had a water theme but also had a sea, sky, and earth theme (the theme for ruby, sapphire and emerald)...they were all water types but some were mixed as well...wailord and tentacruel represent the sea, exclusive sea animals, ludicolo and whiscash represent the earth being part grass and ground, gyarados and milotic represent the sky since both are on par with dragons and gyrados is also a flying type; generation 4, champion was cynthia and her team was mixed and followed a theme of mysticism/ eccentricity (the themes of diamond, pearl, and platinum) and grace...spiritomb, garchomp, milotic, lucario, togekiss, gastrodon, and roserade all follow that theme...generation 5, Alder is mixed and follows a theme of combat and ancient/ feudal times (the theme for black and white)...accelgor is a ninja, something trained for combat during feudal japan, escavalier is a knight which served the same purpose as accelgor only in feudal Britain, France, etc.., druddigon is a dragon, the symbol of mystery, unknown and power during feudal Europe, bouffalant is bull built for head to head combat, volcorona has associations with the ancient times and actually served as the sun for ancient peoples...and vanilluxe is permafrost, everlasting ice, something that has retained its form for thousands of years...but that's just my speculation...
 
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Ememew

Emerald Mew
I'm pretty sure Alder doesn't have a specific type considering that he is a champion and all previous champions are mixed unless they had prior associations...generation 1, blue was champ and he had a mixed team and followed a theme of balanced rivalry; generation 2, Lance was champion and he had predominantly dragons mainly because he used to be an elite four member who specialized in dragons, however, not every pokemon on his team is of the dragon type but all ore dagonic following a dragon theme; generation 3.1, Steven was champion and although he had mostly steel types, he also had rock types so there wasn't specification either just a theme of pokemon associated with the earth; generation 3.2, wallace was champion, his team was mainly water because he used to be a water type gym leader; generation 4, champion was cynthia and her team was mixed and followed a theme of mysticism/ eccentricity and grace...spiritomb, garchomp, milotic, lucario, togekiss, gastrodon, and roserade all follow that theme...generation 5, Alder is mixed and follows a theme of combat and ancient/ feudal times...accelgor is a ninja, something trained for combat during feudal japan, escavalier is a knight which served the same purpose as accelgor only in feudal Britain, France, etc.., druddigon is a dragon, the symbol of mystery, unknown and power during feudal Europe, bouffalant is bull built for head to head combat, volcorona has associations with the ancient times and actually served as the sun for ancient peoples...and vanilluxe is permafrost, everlasting ice, something that has retained its form for thousands of years...but that's just my speculation...

Interesting, and I agree with most of it, but Steven was referred to as a Steel-specialist in-game.
 

Chairman

Well-Known Member
I don't believe he is a bug trainer. Volcanara is there because it's his obious partner pokemon, maybe with one being based on the other.. (hair?)
The other to bugs on his teams are the ones you have to trade with to evolve, so thats proabably why thier poth there because they relate to each other. Another reason is also they are rare pokemon that you only see each of them 1 time before you verse him (I think), so if you avoided those trainers your pokedex would still be filled.
Then the others are thier to make his team more rounded, druddigon is probably there so he isn't too hard
 

Ememew

Emerald Mew
I don't believe he is a bug trainer. Volcanara is there because it's his obious partner pokemon, maybe with one being based on the other.. (hair?)
The other to bugs on his teams are the ones you have to trade with to evolve, so thats proabably why thier poth there because they relate to each other. Another reason is also they are rare pokemon that you only see each of them 1 time before you verse him (I think), so if you avoided those trainers your pokedex would still be filled.
Then the others are thier to make his team more rounded, druddigon is probably there so he isn't too hard

Again, I'd agree except for the fact that you cannot see Vullaby/Rufflet in any trainers' party in the opposite version from the one they're found in, and therefore cannot be "seen," so I doubt Accelgor and Escavalir were added for Dex purposes.
 

Nijaskills

Well-Known Member
One other thing is that he's one of the only main champs without a Pseudo legendary pokemon.
One could consider Volcarona as pseudo-legendary, even though it isn't 600 BST, since there is a hidden stationary one (like Rotom), and it isn't obtainable by normal means in the wild.

That's because first generation had a whopping single line of Ghosts and ONE Ghost attack.

That's because Champions have consistently been mixed-type. This is not new.

Wallace.

Again, I'd agree except for the fact that you cannot see Vullaby/Rufflet in any trainers' party in the opposite version from the one they're found in, and therefore cannot be "seen," so I doubt Accelgor and Escavalir were added for Dex purposes.

True. If they had been aiming for dex completion, they would have given him ferrothorn as well.
 
One could consider Volcarona as pseudo-legendary, even though it isn't 600 BST, since there is a hidden stationary one (like Rotom), and it isn't obtainable by normal means in the wild.

Sudowoodo (technically, he's hidden!!!!)...
 

Grei

not the color
One could consider Volcarona as pseudo-legendary, even though it isn't 600 BST, since there is a hidden stationary one (like Rotom), and it isn't obtainable by normal means in the wild.

That is not the criteria for a pseudo-Legendary. A pseudo-Legendary has its status because of its base stat total (always 600), and because of its evolutionary line (it's always 3 stages). They have other similarities, but that's the gist of it. Rotom is not a pseudo-Legendary in any way. He's a one-off Pokemon, but not a pseudo-Legendary. Volcarona's pretty close to being a pseudo-Legendary in terms of stats, but there isn't much about it that is pseudo-Legendary.

EDIT: on the topic of Alder's typing, I'd like to emphasize the point that Alder being a Bug-type Champion makes no sense when you consider the amount of Bug-type Pokemon. Yes, Steven could have gotten Mawile and Magneton, but he didn't--possibly because the two of them were too weak (at least Mawile was). So, they filled Steven's team with the next-best thing. Alder, on the other hand, uses Volcarona, Accelgor, and Excavalier, and yet completely ignores Leavanny, Scolipede, Galvantula, Crustle, and Durant. There is really no excuse, no reason for Alder to be a Bug-type Champion and yet just decide not to use five fairly good Bug-type Unova Pokemon (especially Durant, Galvantula, and Leavanny, who are all very powerful) in favor of using three other Pokemon that are not bug-like in the slightest. One could say that Steven also could have used other Steel-types, but I'm pretty sure that GF does testing to make sure the Champion is passable in strength. I get the feeling Magneton and Mawile caused Steven to be a little too weak, and so they gave him a pair of Pokemon that go together and fit his theme.

Alder, on the other hand, must be a multitype Champion, because there is no legitimate reason for why he failed to use five of the eight available Bug-type lines in favor of Pokemon that are not remotely like bugs.
 
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Swampert_trainer

Laughs at thunder
Alder has no specific type, he just uses powerful Pokemon and in this game, a lot of the powerful Pokemon happen to be bug types. Also, even if he were to have a specific typing, it wouldn't be bug as there's already a gym leader with that typing (Burgh).
Juan the 8th gym leader of the Hoenn region uses water types. Wallace, the campion of the region, uses water types. The cahmpion can use the same type as a gym leader.

Alder isn't a Bug type specialist, but Burgh having Bug types wouldn't stop him from becoming one.
 
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Knightmare

Well-Known Member
That is not the criteria for a pseudo-Legendary. A pseudo-Legendary has its status because of its base stat total (always 600), and because of its evolutionary line (it's always 3 stages). They have other similarities, but that's the gist of it. Rotom is not a pseudo-Legendary in any way. He's a one-off Pokemon, but not a pseudo-Legendary. Volcarona's pretty close to being a pseudo-Legendary in terms of stats, but there isn't much about it that is pseudo-Legendary.

I dunno... I kinda want to consider Volcarona a psudo-legendary. I think in this case we can make an exception about the 3 stage evolution and 600 base stat total. Another general trend (besides Garchomp because things got weird with numbering with all the post E4 national dex evolutions) has been that they come just before all the actual legendaries in the pokedex. It comes after even Hydriegon in the dex even though Hydriegon is the one with the proper stats.

I feel like the two of them are supposed to represent light and darkness in some way considering one is the signature pokemon of Ghetsis, who's the antagonist, and the other is the signature pokemon of Alder, who is a good guy or whatever. So even though they have different amounts of evo stages and different stat totals, it seems like they're meant to be counterparts as psudo-legends.

Plus Larvesta doesn't evolve until level fifty-freakin-nine. Psudo legends are also known for evolving late like that.
 
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