All Dragon Ball Discussion Thread (Discuss Z/GT/Kai etc. Here!)

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Well your are no the only. I liked a lot this episode. Sad 4 toppo didnt get at least 1 elimination, but that was the same with the other universes

Personally I never really cared for the guy.

 

[CMButch]

The main characters of the show - of the franchise - cannot, by definition, be "Mary Sues." That's not what the phrase means or how it works. They're simply overpowered - which, again, main characters; their faces are on all the merchandise - and you don't like it, which is fine.

They can. Ask Rey from Star Wars. https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/5ofkog/why_is_rey_considered_a_marysue/
Also, I don't mean characters do be individually MS, but as entire U7 team. Use logic; U7 defeated many fighters, erased most of Universes and right now they have 4 people on the field. I don't care what's a phrase OP or MS, it's still same stuff for me.. ; "bad writing" . It's not just me who don't like it. Many people don't. Just because their faces are on merchandise doesn't mean they must be "all mighty" and always winning. Ash never won the league... yet he's still on face of the merch.I never said U7 should've been dropped out in like 30 minutes. They should've stayed until the end with U11.. just entire process of carrying them is making them MS it's been proven until this moment when 4 people are on the field. So, in 5-6 months of how much this goes on;6 people only dropped out. While others dropped like way faster.It should've been Toppo and Jiren vs Goku, Vegeta and Frieza.. right now. Not Jiren vs 4 people. And U11 should win..Alos, not to mention they're fighting like it's beginning of tournament... Goku fought for like 30 minutes and at one point he couldn't move and now he's fighting Jiren in Blue and even KK who is reducing stamina more than SSJG per say. Get out of here.. this guy shouldn't even go SSJG because he battled; Kefla, Anilaza, U9 and Jiren (first time).

 

[DuquÊ?]

It looks like I'm the only one on this thread that liked this episode,I honestly found nothing wrong with it,I was happy that Vegeta eliminated Toppo.

I liked too, man. Vegeta deserved a good win to himself for a long time (every time he went NO SELL to every hakai was gold). One more episode would be nice to are more of Toppo of Destruction, but I'm glad with we got.

 

[BCVM22]

They can. Ask Rey from Star Wars.

I will not, because the notion that she is a "Mary Sue" is laughable, as is the notion that the confluences of the world's greatest minds that is TV Tropes is somehow some top authority on this (or any other) matter, but that's neither here nor there.

The point is that "Mary Sue" was invented as a derogatory phrase specifically to refer to an original, late-inserted character who gets all the candy and scores all the points unrealistically, and was most frequently used to refer to fanfiction writers who inserted themselves or an original character into their derivative works and gave them god powers. That is not Goku, or Vegeta, or Frieza, or Android 17, or any of the Universe 7 fighters remaining.

It is only recently and by a certain minority of people that the phrase has been incorrectly appropriated to mean "any character I don't like who gets victories."

Have your opinions about "well, no, the Universe 7 fighters are definitely overpowered because here's what I think..." if you want. That's your prerogative. I don't much care one way or the other. My point is that they are not by any definition "Mary Sues" because you're not happy with the way they've handled their victories and eliminations or lack thereof on either count.

 

[Ambyssin]

Okay, well I watched the episode. It was very flashy and at least it looked like there were fewer reused animations compared to some of the previous episodes. It was certainly entertaining and gave Vegeta a shining moment of sorts.

... but Jiren's still there.

I think the big issue for me was that the second half of the episode had this sense of finality to it. Like that could've been a way to end of the tournament except A) it wasn't Goku doing the crazy stuff, and B) Jiren. Even looking at the preview, it doesn't look like all that much will change about him with his power up. So, yeah, it's going to be three or four on one. For a second I thought I missed something with Frieza but, no, it looks like he went off to lick his wounds and figure out how to hijack the plot at the last second and troll the world by leaving Super on a huge cliffhanger going into the hiatus.

 

[BCVM22]

So, yeah, it's going to be three or four on one.

Now the question is who gets eliminated and who gets to score the elimination on Jiren (probably Goku or Goku+), since we know they aren't going to let Universe 7 win out with three or four of the fighters out of ten remaining.

 

[Pokegirl Fan~]

My guess is that Jiren eliminates everyone but Goku, with Frieza hiding somewhere and either Goku and Jiren eliminate each other and Frieza is the winner or Goku eliminates Jiren.
Frieza is definitely going to become a threat later on though.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Fusion or bust

 

[CMButch]

I will not, because the notion that she is a "Mary Sue" is laughable, as is the notion that the confluences of the world's greatest minds that is TV Tropes is somehow some top authority on this (or any other) matter, but that's neither here nor there.

The point is that "Mary Sue" was invented as a derogatory phrase specifically to refer to an original, late-inserted character who gets all the candy and scores all the points unrealistically, and was most frequently used to refer to fanfiction writers who inserted themselves or an original character into their derivative works and gave them god powers. That is not Goku, or Vegeta, or Frieza, or Android 17, or any of the Universe 7 fighters remaining.

It is only recently and by a certain minority of people that the phrase has been incorrectly appropriated to mean "any character I don't like who gets victories."

Have your opinions about "well, no, the Universe 7 fighters are definitely overpowered because here's what I think..." if you want. That's your prerogative. I don't much care one way or the other. My point is that they are not by any definition "Mary Sues" because you're not happy with the way they've handled their victories and eliminations or lack thereof on either count.

So, your entire point of you replying to me is because of my misuse of a word "Mary Sue"? I know what MS means ( perfect character) and DB characters are nothing like that. I just used that word in a rage of how stupid DBS anime was since ToP in both PS and writing. But my entire point is not that "word", it is actually me wanting to debate with you if you think writers handled it well. I am coming off objective point that; they didn't. As a fact, they didn't do it well.As a fact they made U7 way too powerful than it actually is. I am not talking PS-wise, but writing-wise.( just like some people think BW anime is objectively bad compared to relation/connection with other seasons( DP and XY). I'd say how would I handle this entire ToP is better than what TOEI has done.And I am not alone on this one, I bet millions of people who look at things realistically would do the same.Just look at this page and you will see some people are mad at this episode,including myself.ToP is only good at action,though, anything else? Nah.

 

[BCVM22]

Why are you bolding all of that text? I can read it just fine.

My point is that none of the characters are "Mary Sues," which itself is an outdated and almost meaningless term at this point. Beyond that, you - and everyone else, because I guess you thought I was referring solely to you? - can have the rest of their opinions however they want. Why always the shouting?

But my entire point is not that "word", it is actually me wanting to debate with you if you think writers handled it well.

Oh, well, there's our disconnect. I have no interest in debating the point. I see the confusion now.

How would that go, anyway?

"I think the writers handled it poorly!"
"I think they handled it okay!"
*exchange of steely glares*
"We seem to be at an impasse."

Again, I'm not here to tell you your opinion is right or wrong.

I'd say how would I handle this entire ToP is better than what TOEI has done.

That's probably not true, but that is also neither here nor there nor is that exclusive solely to you. All of us - me, you, that guy over there - would probably do terrible work writing scenarios like this. We think we'd do a better job, is what would be more accurate.

And I am not alone on this one, I bet millions of people who look at things realistically would do the same.

Okay? Must make it so, then.

 

[CMButch]

Why are you bolding all of that text? I can read it just fine.

My point is that none of the characters are "Mary Sues," which itself is an outdated and almost meaningless term at this point. Beyond that, you - and everyone else, because I guess you thought I was referring solely to you? - can have the rest of their opinions however they want. Why always the shouting?



That's probably not true, but that is also neither here nor there nor is that exclusive solely to you. All of us - me, you, that guy over there - would probably do terrible work writing scenarios like this. We think we'd do a better job, is would be more accurate.



Okay? Must make it so, then.

Because I wanted to make clear to stay on actual relevant topic(writing of ToP) and not to drift away to 'debate' about the word and different interpretations of that word or any... BTW, I wasn't talking to just you in that bold statement, I was calling anyone who wants to debate to that "making U7 strongest" is a good move/writing.Also, I think shouting would be this: "HEY HEY", while putting something in bold meaning it's 'important'.

That's probably not true, but that is also neither here nor there nor is that exclusive solely to you. All of us - me, you, that guy over there - would probably do terrible work writing scenarios like this. We think we'd do a better job, is what would be more accurate.
Sorry, didn't see this edit: It's actually true, since I understand DB, action and some "realistic" writing( probably because I am power-scaler). Watched DB and Z. Super is nothing like those, it's like different entity, like GT. That's why many people don't like them.Of course we would do horrible writing if we do it in like 6-7 days.Imagine you writing a book in 6-7 days, of course it'd be awful. It takes time, passion,love and will. For Z it seem they had all except "time" ( I think). Z had problems, but it's miles better than DBS.That's why many people think DBS is DB$. No love, no passion no will. Just money. That's why many people think DBS manga is way better. Because it actually feels like passion and love is put into that.BTW; that's why it's better to have one guy working on it, then have like 5-6 writers working on it.Edit 2; I wouldn't debate like that, I would actually try and back up my argument/evidence, though. Not sure about you.

 

[phanpycross]

"Im a power-scaler"

"I could write a better show"

Pick one.

 

[CMButch]

"Im a power-scaler"

"I could write a better show"

Pick one.

Nah. Both. Multi-tasking .

 

[Sonic Boom]

Re: Vegeta should not have gotten the win on Toppo because of lack of "chemistry", whatever that means these twenty minutes.


Vegeta spelled it out with that Final Explosion that Toppo had essentially gone the Majin Vegeta route in his GoD ascension - a desperate and cheap power-up once he became convinced that power was all that mattered, damn any other attachments. Had this been Z Vegeta, he would completely agree with Toppo. But this is Super: Vegeta has gone down this road before, and saw for himself that the gambit wasn't worth it, both morally, and empirically since Majin Buu survived his attack. He's got a family he wants to protect, a Saiyan comrade he wants to keep his promise to, and most of all, a Saiyan pride that he has learned to redirect and hone altruistically, and this has granted him power he could never have imagined as a Majin fighter.

Vegeta needed to be the one to beat Toppo. Toppo obstensively was a Vegeta with a very warped sense of black and white morality - remember that Toppo refused to associate with Universe 7 because he thought they were tainted by evil and he didn't want to be corrupted. Toppo was a warrior with pride in justice to spare, but when he eventually got over it, he went in the completely opposite direction. The best person to take him down is the one who has grown beyond this "Might is Right" phase, and in wholesome ways. Jiren even slags Toppo for this in the end, and praises Vegeta for never letting go of his pride through all his struggles in this tournament, so the message was clear.

The fight also proved that Vegeta wasn't just support backup for Goku in his tagteaming with Jiren, he can hold his own. He's proven that he has the power to defeat and surpass actual Gods of Destruction, literally obliterating Destruction energy that Freeza couldn't handle, which, now given that this is the endgame for Super, was needed to show he and Goku can overpower Beerus in a fight, albeit indirectly, since we're not getting this fight now. This final fight for Super is between mortals that can either stall out, or outright overpower GoDs - Jiren's not the only member of this club now.

Vegeta's proven just how far he's come as a fighter, and as a person, using the very attack he used to atone for his past sins and surviving, proving that the core of his character in Super is "A power that Toppo can't Destroy." Worthwhile episode.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

1.Dragon Ball
2.Dragon Ball Z/Kai
3.Dragon Ball Super
4.Dragon Ball GT

 

[RedJirachi]

That was SO bad. Getting a homage to Majin Vegeta's sacrifice EXCEPT HE LIVES is the most fan-fic garbage. And we went from Toppo dominating 17 and Freeza, and Vegeta being set up for a sacrifice in the last episode to all of them being A-OK in time for the final battle against Jiren next week (preview shows Vegeta using SSB2, so there isn't even a lasting consequence). Speaking of Jiren, dick move insulting your team mate, bro.

Agree with your sentiment. Perhaps the biggest problem I have had with this tournament is that Universe 7 is doing far too well. I expected by the end, a couple other universes would have a few people left. I expected by now, Universe 7 would be outnumbered and thus it would be urgent for them to beat the opponent. But ever since Universe 6's luck ran out, Universe 7 has had the number advantage. It took FIVE teams out of eight to be knocked out until Universe 7 had lost half of its own. Goku hasn't had nearly enough backlash for his stamina-draining moves like going Ultra Instinct twice and using the Kaioken over and over. Realistically, the only people who shouldn't be exhausted into submission is Frieza and Android 17

Oh, and if I put it out there, Goku shouldn't win this tournament. Vegeta or Frieza should

 

[Blaze Master X]

1.Dragon Ball
2.Dragon Ball Z/Kai
3.Dragon Ball Super
4.Dragon Ball GT

If you're talking about the timeline, then GT is not canon. Akira Toriyama, the creator, has never do anything to Dragon Ball GT, because the anime team created GT.
Dragon Ball Super is created and produced by Akira Toriyama.

Super already killed GT:
-Kibito Kai split back into Shin and Kibito, thanks to Namekian Dragon Balls. (He is still Kibito in GT)
-Pilaf, Mei, and Shu turned into kids. (They are old in GT)
-Goku and Vegeta have Super Saiyan God and Blue (They don't have those transformations in GT)

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

If you're talking about the timeline, then GT is not canon. Akira Toriyama, the creator, has never do anything to Dragon Ball GT, because the anime team created GT.
Dragon Ball Super is created and produced by Akira Toriyama.

Super already killed GT:
-Kibito Kai split back into Shin and Kibito, thanks to Namekian Dragon Balls. (He is still Kibito in GT)
-Pilaf, Mei, and Shu turned into kids. (They are old in GT)
-Goku and Vegeta have Super Saiyan God and Blue (They don't have those transformations in GT)

I already knew that it wasn't canon,not sure what led you to believe that I thought it was,I'm just ranking all the series I watched throughout my life regardless if it's canon or not.

 

[Blaze Master X]

I already knew that it wasn't canon,not sure what led you to believe that I thought it was,I'm just ranking all the series I watched throughout my life regardless if it's canon or not.

Oh I see. I apologize.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Oh I see. I apologize.

It's cool man