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All Dragon Ball Discussion Thread (Discuss Z/GT/Kai etc. Here!)

Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
Will still take like a week to come out here, depending on which language version, although I would hardly call Vegeta complicated. Vegeta is just an asinine jerk who can't stop whining about not being the strongest in the story. Only thing he doesn't do anymore in Super compared to Z is kill innocent bystanders, and that's such a ridiculously low bar for being likeable I refuse to put it that low, and apart from fanservice and him for some reason being very popular there isn't a good reason for him to keep on being shoved into every single story arc.
 
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shoz999

Back when Tigers used to smoke.
Will still take like a week to come out here, depending on which language version, although I would hardly call Vegeta complicated. Vegeta is just an asinine jerk who can't stop whining about not being the strongest in the story. Only thing he doesn't do anymore in Super compared to Z is kill innocent bystanders, and that's such a ridiculously low bar for being likeable I refuse to put it that low, and apart from fanservice and him for some reason being very popular there isn't a good reason for him to keep on being shoved into every single story arc.
He's complicated for a DB villain but you'll freaking love this new take on Broly and what happens at the end. I will tell you that Dragon Ball Super Broly feels less like a stretched episode and more like a full-fledge story arc that can easily be expanded into a giant season of Dragon Ball. That's what Dragon Ball Super Broly feels like. An epic or at least a chunk of one.

Minor spoilers and you can see the spoilers if you quote it but Broly's character is basically...

Broly is nothing like the sociopathic monster he was in the original Broly trilogy. He's a just naive innocent kid in a hulking monster's body and is something his new friends realize. However, they did not completely get rid of that original sociopathic take. It still exists and is even hinted that Broly still has that personality through his uncontrollable saiyan forms. In fact there's a moment that hints that Broly has a dark side when he makes a sadistic smile for a quick second and I love how it explains why. Broly's wrath state, his green aura, is basically Goku's non-canon Super Saiyan 4 form where Broly utilizes the power of the Great-Ape in his original form and combine that with the original Super Saiyan form, he can potentially become the strongest Dragon Ball character in the entire universe as stated by Goku and Dragon Ball's creator himself. My favorite and hilarious moment is when Goku and Vegeta lures the enraged Broly towards Frieza and there's this huge camera shot that shows this huge hulking Broly about to grab Frieza which his huge hulking hand. It was so funny.

After seeing the new movie

1.Goku (Mastered Ultra Instinct)
2.Jiren
3.Gogeta (Super Saiyan Blue)
4.Broly

...Yet.
 

CyberBlaziken

A Greater Evil
Went to watch it last night. It was a great movie. Plot's pretty simple and straightforward, and the fight scenes were amazing.
That being said, I'm indifferent about if the anime comes back later this year and covers the movie. Wouldn't mind seeing the Father-Son aspect be explored more.

I loved that brisk moment Vegeta had green hair before he turned Super Saiyan, and Goku had white hair when he went from SS God to SS Blue.
Animation itself was pretty decent, some CGI moments were iffy but not too bothersome.
 

Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
Saw the Broly movie in Japanese.

Was alright. Broly's backstory is better than the backstory for most movie villains and leagues better than Bibbidy or Jiren, it actually has some connection to the stuff we already knew. That said, as a character Broly is hardly interesting. He never seems to have any agency at any point in the movie. All his actions are either dictated by Freeza, by Paragus, or by his own insanity. And that denies him a bit of depth or growth. There also isn't much connection between his backstory and his motivations in the fight. He doesn't have motivations other than just to smash everything, there is no personal connection tying him to either Vegeta or Goku. Only between Broly's dad and Vegeta's dad. It makes Vegeta and Goku quite bland as well, they just fight back, but they can't bounce off Broly personality-wise at all. There is no dynamic there.

I'm also not fond of them rehashing the same formula once again for Goku and Vegeta fighting a powerful foe and Vegeta not wanting to fuse. They've done that like three or four times earlier already and it was the exact same thing (Super Buu, Omega Shenron, Janemba, Zamasu). The dynamic between Goku and Vegeta also just isn't all that interesting, it's been done so many times and this movie didn't offer anything new there. Goku says dumb things and doesn't take anything seriously and Vegeta gets annoyed by it and calls him dumb. Why Gogeta just let Freeza go, I don't know. It doesn't make much sense considering how Vegeta viewed Freeza earlier on in the movie. And then Freeza comes to Earth in an attempt to kill them, proving he's still evil, and then he suddenly lets him go? Goku letting him go I can sort of get, Goku is an idiot and he always does dumb things like that. But Vegeta?

Goku and Vegeta failing to fuse twice and having to spend over an hour away from the fight as a result comes out of nowhere and it makes no sense Freeza holds out that long against Broly. It makes no sense. That's longer than the entire Tournament of Power. And it is like two minutes in movie time. It definitely doesn't feel like an hour. I've got no idea why they added the failing to fuse twice gag, it's just a rehash of the Gotenks stuff from the Buu arc except there they could get away with it as there wasn't such a time constraint. It breaks suspension of disbelief and also broke the tone right before the climax by going for such cheap gags.

The Dragon Balls only giving one wish this time is also weird. I think Dende's Dragon Balls have given anything from one to three wishes on a summon depending on the plot demands and medium, no idea why something so fundamental to this series that it's actually named after them is so ridiculously inconsistent on their most basic function of granting wishes.

The fighting itself looked awesome though. I'll give the movie that. Visually it's spectacular. The Gogeta portion was weird though, I've got no idea what they were doing with the background there and why they were suddenly in hyperspace or whatever.

Overall, I think the primary complaint I have is that this movie has no tension. It has spectacle, but that spectacle has no substance or plot relevance. It's just spectacle for the sake of spectacle and fanservice. You already know from the start that Goku and Vegeta have blue god forms and they're not using them for the longest time. You see Vegeta go from base form to gold to red, and then when you think blue is finally next they switch to Goku and just repeat the whole sequence. It's a checklist of forms they have to get through for marketing, but doesn't advance the plot. And with Goku and Vegeta holding back for so long there is no tension, because the main characters aren't taking it seriously enough. And then once blue finally shows up it's over quite quickly and doesn't deliver, it's just the same with a colour swap. And you know that Vegeta still has the bluer form (which he doesn't use) and Goku still has the Kaio-Ken (which he also doesn't use because auras don't translate well to action figures). And then they go to the fusion part and they turn it into gags, draining any kind of calm-before-the-storm setting and draining tension by just goofing around for over an hour in-universe (hour downtime after defusion is apparently retconned out). And once they finally manage to fuse successfully, there is STILL no sense of hurry as Gogeta feels it is more important to think of a name for himself than actually going out there and save the world. And then once he finally gets there he never even mentions the fused name, and instead calls himself a fusion between Goku and Vegeta, making that entire scene of him thinking of a name for himself completely pointless and without payoff. Thankfully they don't go through the entire list of forms for Gogeta again, they skip the base form and the red god form, but once the blue form comes out I have no idea what is going on anymore, it's all just too chaotic and the movie just lost me.

Broly doesn't seem like a deep character. He barely even has dialogue. Once the fighting starts he has no more lines at all for the entire rest of the movie. He's either just a mute statue or a monster that just attacks everything. There's no nuance or depth there at all. When Goku visits him at the end of the movie on his planet he doesn't say anything. The green girl has to talk for him. She's a side character and she has more personality than Broly.
 
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Poke Trainer J

Well-Known Member
Article updated and said it's not true.
I wouldn't be surprised If Toei Animation is working on Slice of Life filler episodes to help the Anime get caught up with the Manga. Let's just hope it isn't a repeat of what Studio Pierrot did with the Naruto Anime where it was 100+ episodes long before we finally got to Part 2 (Naruto Shippuden).

At least when it came to Classic Dragon Ball the filler material was much more enjoyable to watch than the Naruto fillers where it was literally the equivalent of watching paint dry. God forbid If we ever have to go through that kind of torture again.
 

lolipiece

Pictured: what browsing Serebii does to a person
Staff member
Moderator
So hey, how about that Broccoli guy? Watched the movie. Pseudo-review.

GOD, THIS WAS AMAZING.

*Ahem*

I still hate Broly being canon with a burning passion, but I have to say. You did good, movie. You made our Hulk Saiyan a likable. I can say without an ounce of irony tht Broly is a good boy.

OG Broly was a nothing character and basically the embodiment of the worst parts of the DB fandom. And his backstory was stupid. Not "haha, that's so funny it's somewhat cool" stupid, but "wow, someone actually got paid to write this?" stupid. It's amazing how likable someone can be when give them an actual personality, backstory, or even something resembling a character, right?

Vegeta beating Broly up was a good amount of catharsis.

Frieza is an absolute delight. I loved practically every scene he was in, from his stupid motivation to his hammy acting after he killed Paragus. I also liked Berryblue, who apparently Frieza respects enough to not kill? Is this some form of character development. Frieza actually goes the entire movie without killing a single minion (Paragus barely counts).

I have no problems with Broly living, though I am a bit annoyed that every new DB movie has basically become "let's introduce a new main character".

HOWEVER, that being said. Do not. Under any circumstances. Make the next movie about him. He can be in it. He can even help out against whatever the bad guy is. Do not make another Broly movie for at least three more years. I don't need this to become a thing.
 

Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
I figure
Broly will return
once they finally get to the Planet Sadala arc. That should involve all major Saiyan characters from both U6 and U7.

As for plots for the next film I'm hoping they finally introduce Anroid 21 into the main continuity
 

RedJirachi

Veteran member
I wish they explored King Cold some more. The Broly movie has an interesting retcon where King Cold initially took over the Saiyans before handing over the reins to Frieza. It strengthens that King Cold is ultimately the man behind Frieza, and even if he wasn't an active villain he was important to the series lore. We even see many of Frieza's men around and seemingly not having aged in thirty years, suggesting Frieza inherited them from his father. It's also been stated that King Cold and Frieza are freak mutants, so knowing more about King Cold might give us some canon idea on their species

I like to think that the race is called the Frieza Race either because Frieza is egocentric or King Cold is so egocentric that he decided to dub his son that like he's the perfect embodiment of their race. Vegeta's father did name the planet after himself, and Frieza is like a Vegeta that's bigger and still evil
 

MidnightMelody

Hopeful for Gen 8
Were the last 5 eps of Z retcooned. Literally being blasted on an Insta post when I said that Super is during the Z timeline since the last few Z eps were after Super and the amount of people insulting me and or saying it was retconned is amazing. Had a few even say those eps were not canon even if canon is technically just a fan term at the end of the day.
 

BCVM22

Well-Known Member
Were the last 5 eps of Z retcooned.

They definitely were not. All of Super happens, and at some point some years after that, the timeskip episodes/chapters of Z will happen. A few details might change ever so slightly if those exact same stories were to be made with Super in mind, but no, they were definitely not retconned out.

Literally being blasted on an Insta post

There’s part of your problem. People who would try and discuss this in depth on Instagram are likely not worth discussing it with in the first place.

even if canon is technically just a fan term at the end of the day.

I’m not sure what this means. “Canon” isn’t a fan term, though what is or is not canon can sometimes be up for debate. Dragon Ball tends to make it pretty clear, though.
 

MidnightMelody

Hopeful for Gen 8
They definitely were not. All of Super happens, and at some point some years after that, the timeskip episodes/chapters of Z will happen. A few details might change ever so slightly if those exact same stories were to be made with Super in mind, but no, they were definitely not retconned out.



There’s part of your problem. People who would try and discuss this in depth on Instagram are likely not worth discussing it with in the first place.



I’m not sure what this means. “Canon” isn’t a fan term, though what is or is not canon can sometimes be up for debate. Dragon Ball tends to make it pretty clear, though.

Oh thought I heard one of the big DB YouTubers say canon was more of a fan term maybe I misunderstood
 

BCVM22

Well-Known Member
“Canon” is a real word. It’s in the dictionary and everything. In this context it’s used to identify what is in continuity and what isn’t. The three previous Broly films were not canon (almost none of the films are). Dragon Ball Super: Broly is canon.

What is more accurate, and what I assume you read, is that what is and is not canon can sometimes be up for debate. But as I said, Dragon Ball tends to make it pretty clear for the most part.

My advice would be to watch fewer “DB YouTubers,” big or otherwise. None of these people have anything to say that you absolutely must hear. None of them.
 

Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
Before Super it was 'relatively' clear what canon was. The manga was canon, and the anime adapted the manga and added filler and movies. Now it's an unclear mess. If they're so clear about it, where is that clarity? Is it the manga? Is it the anime series? Is it the movies? I don't know. All I know is that events happen differently in the different media. The Dragon for instance has different numbers of wishes depending on the media and the arc, I have no idea how many wishes it's supposed to grant nowadays. The History of Trunks special was referenced in the Super anime even though it contradicts the original manga. Yet the new Broly movie contradicts the Bardock, father of Goku special. They just pick and choose what to use and what to discard, there is little consistency to what is canon and what isn't.
 

CyberBlaziken

A Greater Evil
I don't think History of Trunks or Father of Goku were ever 'canon'. They were always termed 'TV Specials'.

Even Trunks' actual manga side story and the anime adaptation have many differences. The anime changed key plot points to make it more dramatic and appealing.

I don't think Bardock's story was ever explored in the main manga or as a side story.

EDIT : Actually forgot Dragon Ball Minus was a thing, which is what was adapted for DBS: Broly.
 
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Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
Yet the Super anime specifically referenced the anime's version of History of Trunks, not the manga version.
 
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RedJirachi

Veteran member
I think the anime and manga for Super are equally canon at this point, or A-Class canon. B-Class I would put the original anime with its filler and Dragonball GT, C-Class I would add the movies, D-Class would be the various game's continuity and S-Class would be for special intentional what-if scenarios.
 

CyberBlaziken

A Greater Evil
Things with Moro needs to pick up, because it's kinda boring right now.

Design wise a little underwhelming. But this is Dragon Ball. He probably has another form to show-off after he regains his magic or what not.
 
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