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All Dragon Ball Discussion Thread (Discuss Z/GT/Kai etc. Here!)

phanpycross

God-king
I dislike how Caulifla was getting SSJ1 and SSJ2 out of her a*s and how he thinks she can beat Goku.Goku had to go through sweat and she's like: meh I will go SSJ1 like nothing and oh SSJ2 goes too.
I dislike how Kale walked through SSB's Kamehameha. It's pathetic. Unless Goku used 0.00001% of Kamehameha. That's why manga DBS is better.

I dont think Ive ever heard an argument for why the manga is better other than "I dont like the anime".

The manga has a lot more unbearable Vegeta pandering, but not really much else. The art is better because they give the artist a month to do what Toroyama did weekly.
 

Kataphrut

Well-Known Member
Really now? Are there still people who are trying to seek logic behind Dragon Ball's inconsistent power levels?

There is none, that's why I'm trying to argue why it isn't a good reason to dislike a character. There's no logic, Toriyama's always been lazy about it. One of the things I like about Super is they've stopped caring and just focus on pure spectacle. Roshi would never have gotten away with the stuff he pulled in the ToP back in Z, and his episodes were some of the best.

They all earned that right due to skill,training,and backstory,Kale did not,she was an absolute weakling before she transformed,Broly was weak as well but it was when he was an infant,Kale was much older than Broly was and was flat out weak and afraid of fighting.

Kale is just the latest in a long line of characters to get a massive boosty to make her relevant against Goku. She's still the runner-up behind Gohan and Frieza in that department.

Modern Dragon Ball seems to emphasise training as the key path to strength, which is fine by me because it fits in with the series' themes of personal improvement. At the moment, they seem to be focusing on the idea that physical training has a limit, but mental training is where true gains lie. Kale right now is following a similar trajectory to Frieza since he was first revived in Resurrection F; like him, she has this incredibly powerful transformation that can briefly stagger Goku in his top form, but being unable to control it makes it ineffective. Freeza was able to overcome the flaw with his Golden Form through meditation, while Kale has been able to gain control of her Beserk form, and get a nice in-betweeny one as well by improving her confidence. There's definitely further room to develop her there, which is more than can be said for her male counterpart and why I'm not ready to write her off just yet. Caulifla meanwhile is just awesome in general; she clearly had what she needed to become a Super Saiyan, she just needed to be told how.

That applies to everyone; Gohan has only ever got stronger through changes in his way of thinking. He gained all his early powerups up to Super Saiyan 2 through anger, his Ultimate form through a mystic ritual (come on, you can't tell me that was earned but Caulifla's weren't) and he's made it strong enough to challenge SSB Goku through regaining his confidence and understanding where he went wrong before. Jiren, the current big man on campus seems to only train through meditation. It also goes back to Whis' teachings about moving without thinking. It's basically another way of saying inner peace is the true path to strength. Open your third eye and all that. At this point, let's all have a moment of silence for our dear friend Tenshinhan.
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
It seems like you're more upset with Super's disregard for power scaling moreso the character's themselves.

It's not limited to them nor are they the greatest offenders.

Aren't power levels the main thing why many people watch DBZ/DBS/DB/GT ( action too)? To see how strong Goku and Vegeta became after harsh training. It'd be good motivation to never give up. Truthfully, I think people stopped caring about plot after Frieza arc when they fu*ked plot when they introduced FT. After that people were confused which FT is which, who did and who did that etc.

I dont think Ive ever heard an argument for why the manga is better other than "I dont like the anime".

The manga has a lot more unbearable Vegeta pandering, but not really much else. The art is better because they give the artist a month to do what Toroyama did weekly.

When I said Manga is better I meant by powerscaling.
Read manga for powerscaling who's stronger than who.
Watch anime for action( although action in DBS has been dumbed down, especially if we look how action was epic in DBZ)
 

RedJirachi

Veteran member
Anyone wonder what Frieza's actual endgame is?
 

BCVM22

Well-Known Member
I do! We thought it was teaming up with Frost to wreak havoc, and that's not the case. So in light of his surreptitious contact with the gods of Universe 4, we're left wondering. Which is part of the fun.
 

Pokegirl Fan~

"She can violate my rights"-Brock
I hope it's something interesting and not just a boring plan to get his revenge on Goku. I'd like it if he is the lone survivor of the tournament and that he does get revived as Goku has promised.
 

DankOverlord

Komodo Dragons Rule!
Aren't power levels the main thing why many people watch DBZ/DBS/DB/GT ( action too)? To see how strong Goku and Vegeta became after harsh training. It'd be good motivation to never give up. Truthfully, I think people stopped caring about plot after Frieza arc when they fu*ked plot when they introduced FT. After that people were confused which FT is which, who did and who did that etc.



When I said Manga is better I meant by powerscaling.
Read manga for powerscaling who's stronger than who.
Watch anime for action( although action in DBS has been dumbed down, especially if we look how action was epic in DBZ)

In the magna the whole thing is Goku and Vegeta being the only guys who get wins and caharcterization there is downright horrible in the Black arc
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
In the magna the whole thing is Goku and Vegeta being the only guys who get wins and caharcterization there is downright horrible in the Black arc

But we can decide definite proof of powerscaling. For example; in manga Goku didn't absorb SSG and could preform that transformation. In anime he absorbed it but Hit vs Dypso episodes proved he could still go with it.

If Vegeta destroyed Cabba in SS1 in manga obviously Cabba ( SS1)is not stronger than Cell or 17/18( Android saga). However, in anime: C-Vegeta who has same power as Vegeta couldn't flinch to SSJ3Gotenks attacks.And yet BCabba is said to be as powerful as BVegeta, so according to that Cabba>SSJ3 Gotenks? LOL. That's why 2 base theory was around, and Vegeta used his normal Base against Cabba.

But if not; that means: MSSJ2 Trunks>SSJ3 Goku and (if we go by 1 base theory: SSJ3>SSJ2>SSJ1>Base>SSG=70% of Beerus) and Trunks didn't undergo any God level ritual or anything and suddenly his normal SS forms are par on 70% Beerus. BS, pure BS.
 

BCVM22

Well-Known Member
I think you've just very clearly laid out your own problem. Why go through all of those unnecessary greater than/less than calculations? What purpose do they serve? What would you lose if you stopped trying to find "definite proof of powerscaling" and just enjoyed the show?
 

RedJirachi

Veteran member
I think that Frieza is studying the other gods so that he can manipulate Beerus. He's acting the way he does so people let their guard down just a tiny amount, enough that they don't try to kill him on sight. He'll tell Beerus that he'll help him get back at Quitela as a spy of sorts, so long as Beerus lets him live. Which he'll then use to find a weakness in the gods and gain power to inevitably turn on him.

That's Plan B. Plan A is planning to survive long enough in hopes of getting a wish. If the universes survive, he'll keep Plan B. If they don't, he'll just sneak in and take the Super Dragonballs. He's currently hedging his bets. It's not like he has really has anything to lose
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
I think you've just very clearly laid out your own problem. Why go through all of those unnecessary greater than/less than calculations? What purpose do they serve? What would you lose if you stopped trying to find "definite proof of powerscaling" and just enjoyed the show?

That takes out the fun out of the show. I enjoy the show but also look for calculations and powerscaling.
 

Darthlord7

The Smug Pikachu
Frieza has already expressed his interest of being the one who will take Zenos' position and given that in his current state he doesn't have anything to lose. Super Dragon Balls might be his chance to achieve what he truly seeks for but messing with everyone's minds in the tournament especially Beerus' might also be a part of his plan or he just enjoys the whole thing or even both.

That takes out the fun out of the show. I enjoy the show but also look for calculations and powerscaling.

It's fun as long as people are not taking it seriously to the point of sh**ting on the show's characters.
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
It's fun as long as people are not taking it seriously to the point of sh**ting on the show's characters.

I am only shi**ing on those 3 female characters( Kale and Caulifla more , heart girl less but she's cringy).Rest of it is fine.
 

Kataphrut

Well-Known Member
I am only shi**ing on those 3 female characters( Kale and Caulifla more , heart girl less but she's cringy).Rest of it is fine.

Interesting that you specify it's only the female characters you have a problem with.

I think that Frieza is studying the other gods so that he can manipulate Beerus. He's acting the way he does so people let their guard down just a tiny amount, enough that they don't try to kill him on sight. He'll tell Beerus that he'll help him get back at Quitela as a spy of sorts, so long as Beerus lets him live. Which he'll then use to find a weakness in the gods and gain power to inevitably turn on him.

That's Plan B. Plan A is planning to survive long enough in hopes of getting a wish. If the universes survive, he'll keep Plan B. If they don't, he'll just sneak in and take the Super Dragonballs. He's currently hedging his bets. It's not like he has really has anything to lose

After what Whis said in the last episode about how the Super Dragon Balls could kill a god, I'm doubling down on my theory that his plan is to use them to usurp Beerus, or possibly even Zeno himself. Krillin and the others even spelled out how he could obtain them; all he needs to do is be the last Universe 7 fighter left standing. Not hard since he's stronger than most of them, and Goku has a tendency to let his guard down.

At the end of the day, an alliance with Frost was never sustainable, since they're on different sides and only one universe could survive. My biggest dissapointment over that was that Frost bought it hook, line and sinker. I was hoping they'd both try to double-cross each other.
 

Sonic Boom

@JohanSSB4 Twitter
I'd honestly be down with Freeza usurping control with the Super Dragonballs and become the final villain for Super. Make it a nice callback to how he was supposed to be the final villain in DBZ.
 

Darthlord7

The Smug Pikachu
We have some new info regarding episodes 109-110. It seems that Goku's new form is probably make its debut in episode 110 as many have already expected.

Episode 109:

The final phase of the Tournament of Power: the "strongest" go into action!
Universe 11's Jiren has remained silent up until now, but he finally enters the fray! Merely by rousing himself to fight, this formidable foe gives off a fearsomely intimidating air, and Goku challenges him to one-on-one combat!
The gods of Universe 11 give him the go-ahead!
Sensing that this is the turning point, they order their ace-in-the-hole Jiren to battle.

Goku This Week: Using his ace-in-the-hole Genki Dama!**
Even fighting as Super Saiyan Blue, Goku is unable to scratch Jiren, so he challenges him with his strongest special attack, the Genki Dama. Will it work against Jiren, who still seems to have power to spare?
Vegeta's amazed too!

Episode 110:

An hour-long special. With the tournament more than halfway over, the gods of Universe 11 order Jiren to squash Son Goku. Goku happily braces himself to fight Jiren, Universe 11's strongest warrior. However, as Jiren unleashes his ki, it overwhelms all the contestants. Goku counters by becoming Super Saiyan Blue and raising Kaio-Ken to the maximum.

Goku and Jiren's fierce battle begins!
On October 8th, two episodes are being broadcast back-to-back, with the title "Autumn One-Hour Special: This is the No. 1 Ultimate Battle in the Omni-Verse! Son Goku vs Jiren!!" Universe 11's strongest warrior, Jiren, finally goes into action. His power is overwhelming, and though Super Saiyan Blue Goku challenges him by raising Kaio-Ken up to the maximum, it is still of no use.
Memo: Goku has all of his attacks deflected, and is knocked down. However, a ki never seen before erupts from his body.
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
Interesting that you specify it's only the female characters you have a problem with.
I never specified all female characters. I only said those 3. Cabba would be on the list too if he got as*pull like SSJ2 and without battle and if he walked through Blue's Kamehameha.
Girl with hearts is just annoying and cringey. While Kale and Caulifa are because "we need some fanservice and we need to make stronger via as*pulls".
Cabba at least achieved SSJ1 via battle with Vegeta and via some rage. SSJ1 Caulifla just did it, SSJ2 just also came to here and Super Caulifla also came to her. That's why many hate her including me. Kale is hated because what she did to Blue's Goku, while Jiren KO'd her 1 one Blast, while he wasn't even trying. Also how she and Caulifla knocked 3 guys from U11. It's obvious they were overrating those 2 for fanservice. And probably will until the rest of tournament. I just hope they get knocked off ASAP.
 

RedJirachi

Veteran member
I'd honestly be down with Freeza usurping control with the Super Dragonballs and become the final villain for Super. Make it a nice callback to how he was supposed to be the final villain in DBZ.

Was that ever confirmed or not?
 

BladexFade

Well-Known Member
How, where, when, is he(Goku) getting the time to pull out a spirit bomb...?

Well, I am more excited for Hit vs Jiren fight.
 
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