All Dragon Ball Discussion Thread (Discuss Z/GT/Kai etc. Here!)

[Darthlord7]

Judging from this few seconds, it seems that Jiren deflects the Spirit Bomb and Goku ends up absorbing the Spirit Bomb and gains the limit breaker form.

 

[RedJirachi]

Why would Goku use a Spirit Bomb on Jiren? It's supposed to target evil-doers, those with a pure heart are able to deflect it. Unless the plan is to absorb it being deflected back. Though where would he get the power when the only living beings to get energy from are the fighters. Hmm...would Whis be able to donate energy? Would that be allowed, because he's neither a fighter nor does he have to worry about punishment because the angels are exempt from the tournament affecting them

 

[Kataphrut]

Why would Goku use a Spirit Bomb on Jiren? It's supposed to target evil-doers, those with a pure heart are able to deflect it. Unless the plan is to absorb it being deflected back. Though where would he get the power when the only living beings to get energy from are the fighters. Hmm...would Whis be able to donate energy? Would that be allowed, because he's neither a fighter nor does he have to worry about punishment because the angels are exempt from the tournament affecting them

If the gods are allowed, the question of where he gets the energy is immaterial. I could see the Zenos putting up their hands without realising what they're doing, which would be like dropping a piano on Goku's head. If not, it'd have to be from the remaining U7 fighters. Which isn't that bad; the Spirit Bomb Goku used on Kid Buu was already pretty big when it was just the Z Fighters energy.

As for the pure-hearted thing, having a pure-heart isn't exclusively good in this setting. Goku has been classified as pure-heart since the Dragon Ball days, back when he was a rougher, coarser and more open to killing opponents. Meanwhile, Krillin and Bulma weren't considered pure-hearted (they couldn't ride the Nimbus) despite being clearly good. I picture pure-heartedness being more like honesty, emotional openness and sincerity: for example, the Crest of Sincerity in Digimon which belonged to mimi was called 'Purity' in the original Japanese.

We don't know a lot about Jiren, but we do know he's an anti-social stoic jerk. By those rules, he may not cut it as pure-hearted even if he is a good guy. So we'll see what happens.

 

[RedJirachi]

If the gods are allowed, the question of where he gets the energy is immaterial. I could see the Zenos putting up their hands without realising what they're doing, which would be like dropping a piano on Goku's head. If not, it'd have to be from the remaining U7 fighters. Which isn't that bad; the Spirit Bomb Goku used on Kid Buu was already pretty big when it was just the Z Fighters energy.

As for the pure-hearted thing, having a pure-heart isn't exclusively good in this setting. Goku has been classified as pure-heart since the Dragon Ball days, back when he was a rougher, coarser and more open to killing opponents. Meanwhile, Krillin and Bulma weren't considered pure-hearted (they couldn't ride the Nimbus) despite being clearly good. I picture pure-heartedness being more like honesty, emotional openness and sincerity: for example, the Crest of Sincerity in Digimon which belonged to mimi was called 'Purity' in the original Japanese.

We don't know a lot about Jiren, but we do know he's an anti-social stoic jerk. By those rules, he may not cut it as pure-hearted even if he is a good guy. So we'll see what happens.

Huh, I didn't think of it that way. Though I should point out the Spirit Bomb on Kid Buu used everyone on Eart to power it

 

[Kataphrut]

Huh, I didn't think of it that way. Though I should point out the Spirit Bomb on Kid Buu used everyone on Eart to power it

True, but before Mr Satan got the general populace on board the Spirit Bomb was pretty hefty, certainly bigger than the one he used on Vegeta. And the Z Fighters have all gotten much stronger since then.

On an unrelated note, we heard Hit and Magetta in the English dub for the first time this week. Hit is fine, it's your typical Matt Mercer voice.

Magetta on the other hand...hoo boy. I'm not sure whether it's brilliant, or the worst thing the dub has done in years. I don't want to spoil it, but I will say it's nice to see more Team Four Star actors landing parts in the official dub. Their voice of ANDROID 19 has come a long way.

 

[RedJirachi]

I would be better with Caulifla if they just had it so she has had Super Saiyan this whole time. Sure, that raises questions on why it wasn't mentioned last arc, but the lesser of two evils. You can argue that she's secretive about this new technique and Cabba isn't told much

 

[BCVM22]

...no? Why would that be "better"?

 

[Pokegirl Fan~]

Gokus transformations are pretty much just handed to him anyways so I don't really see any issues with Caulifla becoming a Super Saiyan.

 

[Sonic Boom]

The Super Saiyan transformation for pure bloods only comes about from a torrent of emotion, or that plus cognizance of the transformation existing at all. U6 Saiyans can get stronger and stronger however they like, but if they're not in an emotional life-or-death situation or in the know about the form, then the transformation is never going to happen.

Caulifla simply had gotten so strong while locked in her base state, that when she finally figured out Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2 was immediately ready to be unlocked as well. It's like keeping a base form Pokémon until well beyond their final evolution's level in that regard.

 

[RedJirachi]

Gokus transformations are pretty much just handed to him anyways so I don't really see any issues with Caulifla becoming a Super Saiyan.

Only Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue really count. Goten and Present Trunks as well

...no? Why would that be "better"?

It would come off as more plausible

 

[Kataphrut]

I would be better with Caulifla if they just had it so she has had Super Saiyan this whole time. Sure, that raises questions on why it wasn't mentioned last arc, but the lesser of two evils. You can argue that she's secretive about this new technique and Cabba isn't told much

I maintain she already did "have it" (in the sense that she was strong enough in base to immediately access 2 once she unlocked 1), she just needed to learn how to unlock it. Cabba had his unlocked by the classic "primal fury" method, but Caulifla just needed a practical explanation. The fact that explanation has been memefied into "tingly backs" is because Cabba is an idiot and Caulifla is a bigger idiot. Blind leading the blind and all that.

 

[Poke Trainer J]

I maintain she already did "have it" (in the sense that she was strong enough in base to immediately access 2 once she unlocked 1), she just needed to learn how to unlock it. Cabba had his unlocked by the classic "primal fury" method, but Caulifla just needed a practical explanation. The fact that explanation has been memefied into "tingly backs" is because Cabba is an idiot and Caulifla is a bigger idiot. Blind leading the blind and all that.

At least Goku explained it better than Cabba did, "Power comes in response to a need, not a desire! Son, use the pain of loss!"

Can you imagine Goku telling Gohan that while they were training in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber during the Cell Games arc that in order to transform into a Super Saiyan he needed to have a "tingly back"? Not sure how that dialogue was translated in the Japanese Sub.

 

[RedJirachi]

I wonder who was recording Goku vs Hit on Godtube for Gowasu to watch

 

[CyberBlaziken]

Gokus transformations are pretty much just handed to him anyways so I don't really see any issues with Caulifla becoming a Super Saiyan.

Not really.

Goku was always getting stronger in an exponential rate, every form barring the one introduced in Super, he got in in difficult circumstances.
Krillin had to die for Goku to gain access to SSJ1.
He, alongside all the present Saiyans then, ascended SSJ1, albeit it was only him and Gohan that achieved SSJ2 because Goku mastered SSJ1 and had a better understanding of what it meant to ascend.
SSJ3 came when he was already dead, and was training for 8 years straight in the Other World, which would be adequate time for him to figure out how to go beyond SSJ2. It's not his fault Gohan slacked off, and Vegeta achieved only SSJ2 in the same time period.

SSG came from a ritual where everyone picked him as their best bet to win against Beerus, because he was stronger than Vegeta then.
Both achieved SSB, so that's that.

 

[BCVM22]

It would come off as more plausible

Still no?

It seems like you enjoy writing sidewinding, twisted and often puzzling explanations for things that don't really need them and going "yes, this would definitely be better. Definitely."

The Universe 6 Saiyans aren't an extinct race. They aren't a race of conquerers. They don't know from the kind of pain, and sorrow, and loss, and conflict that our favorite Saiyans do. "The power responds to need, not a desire" would be lost on them completely. But they're already powerful enough that they have the strength needed to attain the form - they just never tried. And as Cabba and Caulifla show us, once they do obtain Super Saiyan, they're at peace enough to have complete control over it (and Super Saiyan 2) immediately. Again - fundamental difference between a thriving, contended race from Universe 6 and the conflict-torn lives of our favorite remaining Saiyans from Universe 7. And they communicated that difference quite effectively.

So no, it really would not have come off as "more plausible" for Cabba to return to Universe 6 and have other Saiyans go "oh, this heightened form that you reached by emotion but we can reach by pure strength? Known about it for years! Tea?"

 

[Kataphrut]

At least Goku explained it better than Cabba did, "Power comes in response to a need, not a desire! Son, use the pain of loss!"

Can you imagine Goku telling Gohan that while they were training in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber during the Cell Games arc that in order to transform into a Super Saiyan he needed to have a "tingly back"? Not sure how that dialogue was translated in the Japanese Sub.

That's what I mean though. For all the grief we give Goku, he can be quite eloquent when it comes to fighting stuff, dub!Goku especially. Whereas Cabba is...well maybe idiot is the wrong word, but he's young, and clearly flustered by this intense delinquent girl getting up in his face. Caulifla meanwhile, is totally an idiot, but has her own way of comprehending things. She was the one who asked Cabba to just tell her the straight-forward physicality of transforming, and that led to tingly-backs. And when she asked Goku about it, his response seemed to be like "yeah, I guess." Like, he knew what she just meant, but he never thought of it that way.

The whole thing's nonsense, but I think we're well past the point of Super Saiyan being taken seriously. Within the space of the Android saga it went from an ancient prophecy exclusive to Goku to every Saiyan's minimum requirement, and only got worse in Buu. I can't get mad at stuff like that, or the Potara change because it feels like Toriyama's just trolling.

Also, why is it people still talk about the terrible Funimation dub from the early 2000s, but every time I try to talk about the really good Funimation dub for Super on this board, I get crickets? I want everyone to go and look up clips from dub Magetta and tell me whether or not it's the greatest thing in the world.

 

[CyberBlaziken]

Also, why is it people still talk about the terrible Funimation dub from the early 2000s, but every time I try to talk about the really good Funimation dub for Super on this board, I get crickets? I want everyone to go and look up clips from dub Magetta and tell me whether or not it's the greatest thing in the world.

I think it could be down to the fact maybe a lot of people aren't rewatching the series just for the sake of the dubbed version just yet.

But I did look up Magetta's dub voice and I don't know whether I should laugh or cry.

 

[Jb]

I think it could be down to the fact maybe a lot of people aren't rewatching the series just for the sake of the dubbed version just yet.

But I did look up Magetta's dub voice and I don't know whether I should laugh or cry.

This. And the fact that dubs in general are terrible and we talk about the older ones based on nostalgia.

 

[Pokegirl Fan~]

Imo the dub has been pretty good so far; I just wish it would have started earlier than it did.

I'm enjoying the current arc now since I've never seen the original dub of it.

 

[CyberBlaziken]

Do people rate the Funimation dub poorly though? I thought it was pretty good.

I sorta grew up with it, barring the Saiyan Saga because I can still remember Ocean's 'the next dimension' line ringing in my ears.