All Dragon Ball Discussion Thread (Discuss Z/GT/Kai etc. Here!)

[Sonic Boom]

Freeza noticed that this is a kind of power that even GoDs fear, so if he needs to give Goku his second wind so he can access Ultra Instinct again, so be it.

The fantastic, and terrifying, thing about Ultra Instinct is that it's not exclusive to Saiyans. Anyone, god and mortal alike, can achieve this state of phenomenal power. That Jiren can't do it means Goku is actually better than Jiren, and can prove it when he's not running on emergency power reserves. But if Goku can do it, what's stopping Freeza?

 

[BCVM22]

If they go the route of Frieza healing Goku, I'm wondering if they'll give Frieza's justification as the common trope of "no one's going to kill you but me."

The seemingly-madhouse image of Frieza himself giving energy to Goku for a Spirit Bomb was fun, though - the kind of flipped scenario they can write when these characters have been around as long as they have. Overall, Frieza's interactions with the main cast have been really fun, like Krillin immediately recoiling at the initial sight of him. My only concern is that they'll somehow try and have him make some manner of heroic turn at the end. I don't much think they'll do that - I think Frieza's ends remain entirely sinister but he realizes cooperation (or the perception of, at least) is his best bet for now - but that would veer towards being out of character if they take that turn down the line.

 

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

Because it's unnecessary and almost impossibly pedantic to describe all of that when I think most people know "hour-long" doesn't mean a full 60 minutes of animation?

It still feels a bit like a cheap scam to me. It doesn't take an hour to watch two episodes, it takes about 45 minutes. Why don't they call it a "45 minute special" or something like that? Calling it an hour is just untrue. I thought that the episodes would both be 30 minutes to make it an hour long, but they were just regular length episodes. To me this is just misleading marketing from Toei's side, it's just a blatant lie and nothing more.

 

[lolipiece]

It still feels a bit like a cheap scam to me. It doesn't take an hour to watch two episodes, it takes about 45 minutes. Why don't they call it a "45 minute special" or something like that? Calling it an hour is just untrue. I thought that the episodes would both be 30 minutes to make it an hour long, but they were just regular length episodes. To me this is just misleading marketing from Toei's side, it's just a blatant lie and nothing more.

Quit complaining about the semantics of television marketing. It's a waste of time.

Seriously, this isn't something exclusive to Toei. Lots of television shows have had hour-long specials, and I can't really name one that actual ran for that long without commercials.

May I remind you this is in fact a show that airs in television in Japan?

 

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

Quit complaining about the semantics of television marketing. It's a waste of time.

Seriously, this isn't something exclusive to Toei. Lots of television shows have had hour-long specials, and I can't really name one that actual ran for that long without commercials.

May I remind you this is in fact a show that airs in television in Japan?

Commercials aren't part of the show, they're not added to the DVDs, Blurays, or the online broadcasts. Just because it's surrounded by commercials on Japanese TV doesn't mean that they're part of the show, at least not to me. And just because apparently other shows also lie to their customers doesn't mean it's okay to do so. But I'll stop here as you're serebii staff.

109 was pretty cool, splendid animation and storyboarding when Goku used the Kaio-Ken, but it fell flat a bit with the Genki-Dama which took forever. And 110 was meh to me, it was just so slow and we didn't really see all that much action. The few minutes of action we got were constantly interrupted by endless cutaways to the gods and to Omni-Kings doing the same "Ooh" and "Wow" and "Amazing" that they've been doing since the beginning. The pacing is just so slow right now and it's just starting to bore me. Goku's new form doesn't even really hype me up, it's just another form that's stronger than the previous ones he's had, but it doesn't really appear to stand out in any way. He's already had forms that are stronger than previous ones so often it's just starting to get stale and a bit DEM. It's just Vegetto Blue all over again, a new form getting lots of hype and it only lasts for half an episode and doesn't really accomplish anything in the longer run.

 

[Sonic Boom]

Ultra Instinct is not a one-and-done thing - it's a form Goku now has regular access to when he has the power for it. It's more reliable than Vegetto Blue is.

If Jiren was about to be exposed by Ultra Instinct on its own (since Goku was literally just using the Spirit Bomb's energy to hang on), then he has no shot against Ultra Instinct with a revitalized Goku behind it. This tournament is now about stalling Jiren long enough for Goku to get back up to speed, since Ultra Instinct has been proven to be incredibly effective.

And that's assuming Goku will be the one to do it again. Remember, UI is not a Saiyan-exclusive form. The stakes are really going to be high if Freeza figures out how to do it.

 

[phanpycross]

There's a lot of really fantastic character moment to dig into here.

Beerus caring for Goku, Whis getting all giddy at Goku's new form, Krillin never losing hope in his best friend,Frieza giving his energy to Goku, etc.

Personal favorites has to be Hit jumping in to save Goku, likely knowing he's outmatched, and the other universes not losing their fighting spirits despite Goku seemingly being killed. It's a very cool way to remind the audience that these are characters in their own right, and not just obstacles for Universe 7.

 

[Kataphrut]

There's a lot of really fantastic character moment to dig into here.

Beerus caring for Goku, Whis getting all giddy at Goku's new form, Krillin never losing hope in his best friend,Frieza giving his energy to Goku, etc.

Personal favorites has to be Hit jumping in to save Goku, likely knowing he's outmatched, and the other universes not losing their fighting spirits despite Goku seemingly being killed. It's a very cool way to remind the audience that these are characcters in their own right, and not just obstacles for Universe 7.

I loved all of this, but that last bit was such a great understated moment. Especially because they had that moment earlier where Belmod basically said everyone else would fold once Goku went down. But no, the other fighters were still willing to jump in and have a go at Jiren.

I honestly felt sad when Hit's pre-emptive strike failed. But his response to Jiren, "I'm working" was brutal. If he goes out next ep, here's hoping he goes out hard.

 

[magma grunt edu]

I just don't get why I'm supposed to care about Jiren. He's boring. He has no personality. Give me something to work with so I can give even one iota of a damn.

Same. But i think he's just "the guy to beat" or final boss of the arc. The only intriguing thing about him is what's his wish if he wins but other than that, i couldn't care less about jiren because he got zero development as a character. I'm way more interested in U6 or the hidden duo of U4.

So people are theorizing that Frieza could be atrempting to heal Goku by giving him some energy. Seems a bit out of character, which I felt was the case when he gave energy for the Spirit Bomb.

Well, he himself said that "a monster" was awakening so the fact that the only one that could stand a chance is ultra instinct goku leaves him no choice but to help goku while playfully seemingly threatening him.

Now what i think is very interesting is ultra instinct against the zenos. I know goku won't attack the zenos but i wonder if that power can rival zeno's. I really want them out of the entire existence and it would be awesome if frieza could find out the way to achieve it and successfully eliminated the zenos and the grand priest, which would eliminate the angels (i assume) and the task of eliminating him would fall on the gods of destruction and the strongest fighters of existence to try to eliminate frieza.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

The only thing Goku hasn't tried on Jiren is fusion,but even then that probably wouldn't be enough.

 

[Sonic Boom]

I don't think the Zen'Os really have significant power, let alone fighting prowess. They just have the ability of complete erasure and nigh invulnerability, which is enough to take the role of Omni-King.

As for Jiren's lack of character, it seems that he's just there as a facsimile for Vermoud, and by proxy the other GoDs. He is flat out at GoD level without the Hakai technique to use as an instant win, so for this arc, beating Jiren means beating Vermoud and the other 6 GoDs who were erased from this tournament.

 

[CyberBlaziken]

Makes me wonder how much of a boost he would've gotten if Vegeta helped out.

 

[Red and Blue]

Makes me wonder how much of a boost he would've gotten if Vegeta helped out.

It wouldn't have made any difference. Jiren's power is so monsterous that I doubt Vegeta contributing would have been enough.

 

[CyberBlaziken]

It wouldn't have made any difference. Jiren's power is so monsterous that I doubt Vegeta contributing would have been enough.

Vegeta possesses God Ki as well, which would mean even a portion of it is probably more than the amount the rest had given, barring Frieza, Gohan and 17.
All I'm saying is it might've let Goku sustain the form a bit more.

Frieza as a whole in this saga has been a treat.

I sort of found the Zeno's reactions funny. Time wasting? Maybe to some, but I found it funny.

 

[DankOverlord]

Captain AYYYYYLMAO just straight up destroyed Goku even with his new form AND holding back.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Waits for Jiren vs Superman/Saitama matchups*

 

[RedJirachi]

So people are theorizing that Frieza could be atrempting to heal Goku by giving him some energy. Seems a bit out of character, which I felt was the case when he gave energy for the Spirit Bomb.

I'm surprised he could donate energy, considering he's technically not alive to donate life energy. As for why he was donating energy, it's probably to gain trust. If he doesn't end up getting the Super Dragonballs, they're the only shot he has at living again

 

[Kataphrut]

Waits for Jiren vs Superman/Saitama matchups*

After this, I'd say he's definitely more Saitama than Superman. I'm thinking of the bit where Goku hits him with a Super Saiyan 2 kick to the head and he just shifts it slightly, that's Saitama levels of nonchalance. Also his...horrifying facial expression at the end when he blocks Goku's punch was drawn like when Saitama gets serious in the manga.

I've rewatched the special a couple of times and I still can't get over how good Ultra Instinct is. Like, easily the best new form/technique since Super Saiyan 2. It changes the dynamic of the fights, the theories and inspirations behind it (hello Bruce Lee) are interesting and it's not Saiyan-exclusive! Although Vegeta is the only regular who's anywhere near obtaining it, theoretically anyone could learn it.

My only concern is if it becomes a regular thing it may not live up to the majesty of the first appearance. This episode had a huge talent pool of animators behind it, and on a smaller scale episode, they might not be able to adequately convey the difference between it and a normal Super Saiyan form.

 

[CyberBlaziken]

And that isn't the final version of it. The poster had him shirtless, as well as a fiercer look on his face.

 

[RedJirachi]

After this, I'd say he's definitely more Saitama than Superman. I'm thinking of the bit where Goku hits him with a Super Saiyan 2 kick to the head and he just shifts it slightly, that's Saitama levels of nonchalance. Also his...horrifying facial expression at the end when he blocks Goku's punch was drawn like when Saitama gets serious in the manga.

I've rewatched the special a couple of times and I still can't get over how good Ultra Instinct is. Like, easily the best new form/technique since Super Saiyan 2. It changes the dynamic of the fights, the theories and inspirations behind it (hello Bruce Lee) are interesting and it's not Saiyan-exclusive! Although Vegeta is the only regular who's anywhere near obtaining it, theoretically anyone could learn it.

My only concern is if it becomes a regular thing it may not live up to the majesty of the first appearance. This episode had a huge talent pool of animators behind it, and on a smaller scale episode, they might not be able to adequately convey the difference between it and a normal Super Saiyan form.

I wouldn't say Jiren is Saitama because he's meant to be serious. There seems more Superman in his DNA than Saitama, though with a lot of Sentai there. Though he certainly reminds me of Saitama in certain occasions, like Maji Kayo. One punch man? Try No Punch Man. He can knock the wind out of people with WIND.

I wonder how Hit is supposed to stand a modicum of chance against him