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All Dragon Ball Discussion Thread (Discuss Z/GT/Kai etc. Here!)

Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
So basically
Kafla is Universe 6's last stand. The two U6 Nameks will go down against Gohan and Piccolo leaving Kafla as one big target for Goku to ringout
 

Darthlord7

The Smug Pikachu
A quite crazy chapter in terms of action with every god fighting against each other with Beerus and Quitela being the only ones who were still standing before Grand Priest stopped them because the Zenos couldn't enjoy the fast-paced fight and decided for a minute to just erase the universes without a tournament. Belmond was also faking that he was taken down while being unscathed and was smirking. That damn clown is hilarious in the manga lol. Goku decided to fight instead to show how fun the tournament can be and Toppo enters the stage after Grand Priest's order. The Zenos learned that Goku owns five different transformations and asked Goku to use them all. No form was really a match for Toppo till SSB and SSB Goku was defeated at the end. Jiren was mentioned and is confirmed to be stronger than the clown in the manga as well.
On another note, Toppo doesn't make poses, is more friendly with Goku and hasn't mentioned that he is a Pride Trooper without saying the word "justice" not even once.
 
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magma grunt edu

casual hardcore fan
I hate them for erasing entire universes under flimsy pretenses, including my man Gowasu. He's been through enough! I want the wish to be dealing with them. The winner realizes they have no way of making sure the revived universes stay revived as long as Zen'o is there, so they make the wish "I wish the Zen'o were sent where they cannot harm anyone!" and the two Zen'o are sent to the void that used to be Future Trunks' timeline. Karma for the little brats since that void is one of their faults

Exactly, i despise storylines where the all mighty, capable of anything guy is not intelligent. How in the world does the king of everything create and maintain something so complex like living beings without them being some failed abominations like in fullmetal alquimist? And i'm not even talking about the greater things like planetary ecosystems and the translation movement of planets creating solar systems and galaxies and so forth. It requires knowledge and intelligence to do such a thing. And there's where the grand priest comes i guess. But if so, what do the zeno's do? Whatever they want until nothing but them remain. They would erase the grand priest if he wasn't so good at dealing with them, knowing exactly how they behave. I would like to see freeza succeeding in getting his wish if it meant the zenos would be no more.

One of the most infuriating things i saw about zeno was when he was playing that game with the planets and those planets got destroyed just because zeno's bored. I bet some of those were inhabited too.
 

Sonic Boom

@JohanSSB4 Twitter
The gods being chaotic and in no way benevolent is the entire premise of Super. The entire point of showing the Zen'Os as cosmically inept is so that no one truly feels a wrong move was made when Goku and co. ultimately gain enough power to force some changes in the handlings of the universe.

If the Zen'Os were shown to be the least bit mature and genuine in their kingly duties, and the Grand Priest was shown to be the least bit emphatic toward the sustainment of the universes' life, there would be some hesitance from the audience. But since there isn't, it's a free-for-all.
 

PokemonBattleFanatic-

Well-Known Member
Cabba had his SSJ2 Kid Gohan moment then Frieza came at the end and death beam barraged him out the arena.

Looking forward to the Goku/Caulifla rematch.Possibly a SSJ3 appearance?
 

RedJirachi

Veteran member
The gods being chaotic and in no way benevolent is the entire premise of Super. The entire point of showing the Zen'Os as cosmically inept is so that no one truly feels a wrong move was made when Goku and co. ultimately gain enough power to force some changes in the handlings of the universe.

If the Zen'Os were shown to be the least bit mature and genuine in their kingly duties, and the Grand Priest was shown to be the least bit emphatic toward the sustainment of the universes' life, there would be some hesitance from the audience. But since there isn't, it's a free-for-all.

You're totally right.
* Dragonball(first half): The gods are important and have a role
* Dragonball(second half)/Dragonball Z: The gods have been rendered impotent to the protagonists. Looking at you shin
* Dragonball Z: Battle of Gods: The gods are important and have a role again
* Arc 1 and 3 of Super: The gods are childish, petty and eventually Goku and Hit decide to flip them off
* Arc 4 of Super: Zamasu gets triggered by gods becoming less relevant, and being lazy, becoming the Devil
* Arc 5 of Super: The powers that be are dangerously inept and/or apathetic

I hope Arc 6 of Super is "the gods need to step up". It would be cool if it was an exploration arc where Beerus and the protagonists travel to one or more of the competently run universes and see how things are done. There better be some karma for Zen'o. Maybe he has a dad who smacks him upside the head and puts him in time out until he learns empathy
 

Darthlord7

The Smug Pikachu
Exactly, i despise storylines where the all mighty, capable of anything guy is not intelligent. How in the world does the king of everything create and maintain something so complex like living beings without them being some failed abominations like in fullmetal alquimist? And i'm not even talking about the greater things like planetary ecosystems and the translation movement of planets creating solar systems and galaxies and so forth. It requires knowledge and intelligence to do such a thing. And there's where the grand priest comes i guess. But if so, what do the zeno's do? Whatever they want until nothing but them remain. They would erase the grand priest if he wasn't so good at dealing with them, knowing exactly how they behave. I would like to see freeza succeeding in getting his wish if it meant the zenos would be no more.

One of the most infuriating things i saw about zeno was when he was playing that game with the planets and those planets got destroyed just because zeno's bored. I bet some of those were inhabited too.

I agree with this and that's my biggest problem with the show. Seeing those little two mindless and childish pieces of sh*t governing the whole multiverse and deciding the fate of trillions of people is just infuriating. Grand Priest both design and personality wise feels more like the "god of everything" than those two annoying melon heads. I wonder what kind of dream Toriyama saw before he creates this abomination of a ruler as the absolute being in the franchise.
 

Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
Umm, pretty much all Gods in Dragon Ball are utterly incompetent, it's tradition by this point. Dragon Ball has always been a weird show defying expectations, deities being incompetent is pretty much the gag. Even Kami was utterly incompetent in the Piccolo Jr. arc. I'll agree that the Omni-King gag has pretty much run its course and is getting incredibly stale though, they're not really doing anything new or interesting with them anymore.
 

Baggie_Saiyan

Well-Known Member
New info regarding episode 115.
https://www.reddit.com/r/dbz/comments/7863wf/super_spoiler_megathread_episodes_113115/

The "Goku vs Kafla" title for episode 115 might foreshadow a possible fusion of those two or they just don't want a long title there. Anyway, we will see if Kale and Caulifla have ever met Metamorans before so they can do the fusion dance.

Or it may be achieved another way, they can literally write any other way of fusing without breaking anything as different universe.
 

CyberBlaziken

A Greater Evil
I was reading Kafla being mentioned here, thought it was some other name for Caulifla..

Didn't expect them to fuse or anything.
 

RedJirachi

Veteran member
I'm wondering what was happening with Champa in Trunks' timeline when the Champa arc was happening in the main. We know that Champa was visiting to try and find Super Dragonballs while Sorbet and Tagoma were revived, and the Resurrection F/Champa Arc was happening in age 779. Goku Black met Future Zamasu in age 780, wished immortality then went a year in the future to wish the Super Dragonballs to be destroyed. So that's at least two years between the Champa Arc and the time that Champa was killed. So without Goku and Vegeta, how did their reaction go?

Hmmm...could it be that the Zamasu didn't need to gather the Super Dragonballs, Champa already did that for him and never got to getting his wish because Beerus was a sleepy head?
 

Kataphrut

Well-Known Member
I agree with this and that's my biggest problem with the show. Seeing those little two mindless and childish pieces of sh*t governing the whole multiverse and deciding the fate of trillions of people is just infuriating. Grand Priest both design and personality wise feels more like the "god of everything" than those two annoying melon heads. I wonder what kind of dream Toriyama saw before he creates this abomination of a ruler as the absolute being in the franchise.

We are talking about the same man who saw the outline for Battle of Gods, which originally had a bland virus monster as it's villain and said "let's make him my pet cat." I like Zeno because he feels like the definitive Toriyama character. A simple colourful design, immense power wrapped up in a tiny package and a warped innocent detachment from morality. He's Toribot made canon.
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
I didn't want to see Kale and Caulifla fusing.I wanted to see Zenos being so amazed by all those battles so they add one more guy on Jiren's team( assuming Toppo and Dypso drop out and Jiren is all alone)
That guy to be around Jiren's level, so we can see Vegeta getting something. And we would get: new guy vs Vegeta, Goku sv Jiren in the end.
 

Darthlord7

The Smug Pikachu
I didn't want to see Kale and Caulifla fusing.I wanted to see Zenos being so amazed by all those battles so they add one more guy on Jiren's team( assuming Toppo and Dypso drop out and Jiren is all alone)
That guy to be around Jiren's level, so we can see Vegeta getting something. And we would get: new guy vs Vegeta, Goku sv Jiren in the end.

There is still that mortal who is stronger than GoDs from U4 since it has been confirmed that Quitela was the one who beat Beerus in an arm wrestling match.
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
There is still that mortal who is stronger than GoDs from U4 since it has been confirmed that Quitela was the one who beat Beerus in an arm wrestling match.

Isn't Jiren that guy? Didn't Whis specify Jiren was that guy and they showed us close-up of Belmod's mouth smiling,implying Jiren is stronger than GoDs?
 

Darthlord7

The Smug Pikachu
Isn't Jiren that guy? Didn't Whis specify Jiren was that guy and they showed us close-up of Belmod's mouth smiling,implying Jiren is stronger than GoDs?

Well he was stating that he seemed quite surprised so this probably implies that he didn't know that U11 had a warrior of this caliber. Also, Quitela is the only god thus far who was literally chilling out without any concerns during the time that Jiren showcased his power.
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
Well he was stating that he seemed quite surprised so this probably implies that he didn't know that U11 had a warrior of this caliber. Also, Quitela is the only god thus far who was literally chilling out without any concerns during the time that Jiren showcased his power.
I see. If there's one guy who is probably on same level as Jiren from U4, hopefully one of those two bugs that Quitela's hiding, is not him. I wonder if it's Quitela's guy; how would they introduce him? Onyl logical explanation I have for new guy to come in is that Zenos are too amazed by Jiren's fight so they add one guy on his team because he amazed them( doubt it would be Goku's team because Goku has 7 members left).
Unless Quitela does something extraordinary and Zenos let Quitela call "Jiren-level-of-strenght-guy".

Off-topic
Also, in that shot where GoDs reacted to Goku only 5 of them didn't have sweatdrops; Geene,Liquiir,Iwne, Arack and Mosco. I think that implies that they're still stronger than Goku, while those who have sweatdrops doesn't mean Goku surpassed them, but come close to them. Concerning Sidra and Rumsshi, I'd say Rumsshi wouldn't have sweatdrop, while Sidra would have.
 

Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
Speaking of Quitela's two bug fighters I wonder if they are actually his strongest fighters or are merely there to be the last ones standing when time is up?

Given Ganos' ability I think he might have been U4's best.
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
This is my ranking of U7:

1.Goku; obviously the strongest at the moment.
UI>SSBXKKs>SSB>SSG>SSJ3>SSJ2>SSJ>Base Goku.
UI Goku; around Belmod level, weaker than Jiren( it's been stated Belmod is below Jiren's level, not by much IMO, also it's been heavily implied that if Goku goes UI again he'd probably be close to Jiren and likely even beat it later. Fight would've likely continues if UI wasn't temporary..). I'd put UI on Universe + level.
SSBKKs(10/20). I'd put SSBKKs on Large Galactic Cluster + level.
SSB: around 70% of Beerus. I'd put SSB on Large Galactic Cluster level.
SSG: around 60% of Beerus. I'd put SSG on Multi-Galaxy + level
SSJ3: around SSJ3 Gotenks level. I'd put SSJ3 on Local Star Group + level.
SSJ2: around current Good Buu level. I'd put him on Solar System + level.
SSJ1: around SPC level. Large Star + level.
BaseKK(10/20):around Android 17/18 Cell saga level. Large Star level.
Base; around Mecha Frieza level: Star+ level

2.Vegeta (obviously second strongest)
SSB: around SSB Goku level.
Base 2( Base 2 is Vegeta with God Ki turned on, he uses this Ki whenever he fights stronger opponents than his Base1, SSJ,SSJ2 and sometimes Fury SSJ2( FSSJ2), if not; then he uses normal Ki( like against Cabba)), around SSG Goku level.
FSSJ2: stronger than current SSJ3 Goku. Large Local Star group level.( Beerus had to use more than 1% of his power against Vegeta,though and that was 1 year before current Vegeta, so FSSJ2 is evens stronger now)
SSJ2: around SSJ2 Goku level
SSJ1: around SSJ1 Goku level
Base 1: around Base Goku level( reason why current Goku doesn't have 1/2 Bases is because he can go SSG, maybe Vegeta can go too in future, but it wasn't shown)

3. Frieza(I'd say Frieza is third strongest)
GF:around SSB Goku
Final Form 100%; Galaxy + level
Final Form 50%;back when Goku had two bases, obviously Goku used his God Base (which is like SSG 2.0) against Frieza,but I think he held back his punches, because he knew Frieza's hiding is power(GF), although question is if he knew that he's hiding something, why didn't he kill him?Knowing Goku, he'd already had a good fight and win rather than having a cheap win.Galaxy level
Third Form:stronger than FSSJ2 Vegeta. Large Local Star Group + level
Second Form;I'd say; he's below SSJ3 Goku, but beyond SSJ2 Goku.Multi-Solar System + level.
First Form: Frieza killed Piccolo in this form and could've killed rusty SSJ1 Gohan. Multi-Solar System level.

4. 17( I think 17 is stronger than Gohan, because 1. Goku obviously didn't go full power against his own son instead he did same as he did to Krillin( used SSB(KK) to push him to his limit, 2. Goku said that 17 held back( so did Goku in SSB))
I'd say 17 is above SSG but not by much.Galactic Cluster level.

5. Gohan
Mystic; I think M-Gohan would be above 50% FF Frieza ,but below his 100% power so I think M-Gohan is weaker than 17. After all Frieza had to transform against M-Gohan even though battle was fake/acted.So Galaxy level.
SSJ2:around SSJ2 Goku. Solar System + level
SSJ1: around SSJ1 Goku. Large Star + level.
Base: around Base Goku. Star+ level.

6.Piccolo
Current Piccolo should be stronger than SSJ2 Gohan(he strangled him, although it's unknown if Gohan was at full power SSJ2 at that time) and he probably is stronger than he was against First Form Frieza.I'd say Multi-Solar System level( so around current first form Frieza level).

7. 18.
She's still stronger than Krillin.I'd say below SSJ2 Goku but above SSJ Goku. So, Solar System level.

8.Krillin( honestly Idk it's even Krillin or Roshi)
I'd put Krillin above base Goku ,but weaker than SSJ1 Goku.So, Large Star level.

9. Roshi
Base: weaker than base Goku and Vegeta, but he has experience and tactics that's why he seemed so powerful.Planet level.
Max Power:I still think Max Power Roshi is not on level as Base Goku or Normal Base Vegeta.So I'd put him in Small Star + level.

10. Tien. ( obviously the weakest)
I'd say he's on Small Star level.
 
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