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All Dragon Ball Discussion Thread (Discuss Z/GT/Kai etc. Here!)

phanpycross

God-king
So going over the pros and cons of the finale:

Pros:
- Beautiful storyboarding. Having 40 episodes of surrounding darkness, only for all the fighters to look up at the light was fantastic.
- Frieza being alive sets up an incredibly interesting status quo.
- The fight was awesome.
- Tons of great stills; my favorite being the remake of the saiyan saga between Goku and Vegeta.
- It's cool that we end on SSJ Blue, the defining transformation for this era IMO.

Cons:
- 17 is such an overwritten character, holy sh*t. Should have been Krillin or Piccolo; y'know, actual characters.
- Hit didnt get a scene.


Honestly, it ends way too openly to even be called an ending to Super, but as a ending to this arc, which has varied between some of the best episodes of the series, and some of the most disapointing, it was damn solid.
 

Mr. Reloaded

Cause a pirate is free
17 was not the guy anyone really expected to win this thing, which in many ways is probably a good thing. Made the outcome much less predicable. A shame the same thing can't be said about the wish, but what else could it have really been?

Frieza basically getting the Orochimaru EOS treatment is neat because it basically means we aren't just throwing him away after all this. There's potential.

R.I.P Grand Priest is evil theories lol.
 

pokedigijedi

Saiyan Jedi
I would've preferred it if Jiren was the one who won and wished everyone back, maybe he could've had enough change of heart in the tournament to perform such a selfless act.

But then again I would preferred it if Universe 11 gave Universe 7 a much harder time they did before Jiren started fighting, before the tournament started I honestly expected 11 to give 7 a much harder time than they did since they were a team a superheroes who regularly worked together whilst Universe 7's members rarely worked together in a fight.

But those are just my thoughts and opinions
 

Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
R.I.P Grand Priest is evil theories lol.

It's always open to interpretation. I'd say leaving the fate of all the universes in the hands of whether or not the winner of the tournament was going to be a nice person is still kind of insane leadership if you ask me. I mean, sure, characters like Gohan would've wished it all back, but if someone like Freeza had won, there's no way. I'd hardly say Omni-Kings and Grand Priest are suddenly competent leaders of the multiverse now, saying this redeems everything is like Harry Potter saying Snape was a good guy and naming his kid after him even though Snape still chose to bully Harry for years just because he got rejected by the girl he liked.
 

magma grunt edu

casual hardcore fan
This was the most obvious outcome they could have done. Frieza and goku fighting together was cool but jiren was so boring throughout the tournament that he caused no impact other than "muh power level is bigger than yours". Animation-wise though, 130 and 131 are gorgeous and while we saw some sprinkles of it here and there (for example, 17 eliminating the fusion bot from U3), it was pretty inconsistent as the tournament progressed. But it was enjoyable overall and for a new arc they need to tone it the hell down because there's no going more grandiose than what they just did.

I would've preferred it if Jiren was the one who won and wished everyone back, maybe he could've had enough change of heart in the tournament to perform such a selfless act.

I would have loved to see that twist. U7 would have lost but in the process, Jiren would have been changed and therefore wished everyone back. It would not only be a complete surprise, it would have brought Jirens arc to a close and also would have given us a sort of stinger where goku still hasn't defeated him and therefore would be focused on trying to surpass him, something that we've never saw in the end of any arc and that would serve as motivation for a new arc.
 

RedJirachi

Veteran member
The Zen'o were voicing my opinion when it came to the wish. In that most people aren't evil enough to not try and restore the destroyed universes.
 

Kataphrut

Well-Known Member
I loved the ending. Probably the best way to bring the arc out of it's tailspin and end satisfactorily. After four prior arcs of trying to be subversive, it's nice to have fully positive ending.

Everybody lives, the bad guys are redeemed (Zeno and GP aren't evil after all, Jiren learned a lesson, Freeza came through where it mattered) and 17 gets his boat. Very few complaints, and the final battle actually managed to top 130 in my opinion. MUI Goku vs Jiren was a whole lot of well-animated sound and fury, with the only real highlight being Jiren attacking the stands and Goku's reaction. This last fight of Goku & Freeza vs Jiren with 17 providing assistance was so much more meaningful and coherent. It's kind of a "less is more" scenario, even though a hell of a lot of effort went into both.
 

RedJirachi

Veteran member
Agree with you. This was the spiritual antithesis of the Future Trunks ending. It comes off in-universe as the Omni-Kings giving the finger to Zamasu. That being said, Frieza is still a dastardly villain, he's just smarter
 

Nebbygetinthebag

Well-Known Member
I love the Saiyan saga reference in the end. As for the episode it was amazing, Android 17 is the MVP and The fight of Goku and Frieza vs Jiren was very entertaining. Until we meet again Super.
 
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Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
Sidra and Roh better get their s**t together and start taking proper care of U9. Even though they were revived they still have a lot of work ahead of them.
 

RedJirachi

Veteran member
Sidra and Roh better get their s**t together and start taking proper care of U9. Even though they were revived they still have a lot of work ahead of them.
They also need to keep an eye on Frieza. The way he spooked them and played on their insecurities is a security risk. For that matter, Frieza needs to keep them in mind. I would say Sidra could just go and kill him himself, but I'd think it's against destroyer policy to destroy something from another universe unless there's a good reason. And to admit that is an admission of guilt for them. Better train those assassins Sidra!
 

Kuzehiko

That moment I found a lifetime treasure
17 GOAT in this arc.
Goku and Freeza kicking out Jiren was nice. All the erased universes being brought back was also quite nice. A bit of nostalgia in the end when Goku and Vegeta stood on the rocks. Such nice episode to end Super. Super started up terribly but it ended up alright.
 

RedJirachi

Veteran member
When they inevitably do the next series, I think they should time-skip to start immediately around the end of Z
 

Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
When they inevitably do the next series, I think they should time-skip to start immediately around the end of Z

I think I've mentioned this before, but the problem with this is, at least for me, that you're stuck with the main character training Uub, so you'd end up with "The adventures of Goku and Uub", and personally I don't see Uub being able to carry bouncing off of Goku on his own, I think he's too timid in character to create an interesting dynamic and chemistry. GT did a lot wrong, but I think they had the right idea with ditching Uub right at the start. For all the hate Pan gets for her GT roles, she at least was able to provide a lot more backbone to bounce off of Goku's silliness.
 

CyberBlaziken

A Greater Evil
Never liked Uub. Maybe GT didn't do him service.

But the level which Goku and Vegeta has it in Super, I'll be really annoyed if Uub kept up with them even untrained.
 

RedJirachi

Veteran member
I honestly suspect that they might make the concept behind El Hermano canon. Go full Sasuke
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
I may be alone on this one, but hopefully next series is last one in main canon. I don't mind spin offs. I want next let's call Dragon Ball Ultra to cover ;U11, U6, and rest of universes that weren't showed in ToP. Also, want it to be like 300 episodes with blood and dark moments like Z had( so time slot should move to night or something).
 

BCVM22

Well-Known Member
You don't need blood for dark moments and violence. Super had plenty. Someone be gettin' stabbed every other episode during the Future Trunks arc. It's no less violent just because blood doesn't start pouring out of the hole in Vegeta's armor.

Time slot has little to do with it - Super aired on Sunday mornings instead of weekday evenings like its predecessors because Fuji TV wants those prime time slots for other programming. Super wouldn't have been markedly differently for airing on a different day and time.

As for "want it to be like 300 episodes," the original Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z had to have the slow, extended episode counts that they did because they had to make sure they didn't outpace their source manga. Super - and to a lesser extent, GT before it - had no such concerns. And when they took the fat trimmers to Dragon Ball Z and made Kai, they showed just how much you can trim away and lose very little - 291 episodes trimmed down to 167 (!). Super largely benefitted from its story arcs taking months, not years.
 
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RedJirachi

Veteran member
Super had something worse than blood...existential horror
 
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