All Dragon Ball Discussion Thread (Discuss Z/GT/Kai etc. Here!)

[Red and Blue]

Toriyama answered some questions after the Broly movie

https://www.reddit.com/r/dbz/comments/bjtdlv/summary_of_toriyama_dbs_broly_animecomic_qa/

Those "Goku is a bad father" jokes arent dying anytime soon

 

[SBaby]

They only wished back Cell's victims, not the victims of the androids. All those folks on the island 19 and 20 attacked, none of them were ever wished back. 17 and 18 never killed anybody in that arc other than Gero. Also, if Guru dying because he was sad his children were being killed by Freeza and his men counts as being killed by Freeza and his men, 17 being absorbed by Cell and indirectly dying due to that also counts as being killed by Cell. Or you can assume that 17 died when Cell self-destructed.

I like to think that Guru died of a heart attack because of everything with Frieza traumatizing him, and 17 because of Cell's explosion. The latter makes sense because we already established before that point that 17 and 18 were NOT dead when they were absorbed into Cell.

 

[RedJirachi]

They only wished back Cell's victims, not the victims of the androids. All those folks on the island 19 and 20 attacked, none of them were ever wished back. 17 and 18 never killed anybody in that arc other than Gero. Also, if Guru dying because he was sad his children were being killed by Freeza and his men counts as being killed by Freeza and his men, 17 being absorbed by Cell and indirectly dying due to that also counts as being killed by Cell. Or you can assume that 17 died when Cell self-destructed.

Ah. Nappa and Vegeta's victims also stayed dead with the wish to bring back everyone killed by Frieza and their men because they were AWOL(otherwise Nappa, Yamcha and Tien would've come back with the initial wish). That's kind of unfortunate since thousands of people are never revived. Hmm..how indirect can a murder be until it's invalid for the victim to be revivied with a "I wish that everyone the person behind the indirect murder was brought back"? If somebody orders a hit on me, am I still dead if they wish the person/s the man who killed come back?" What if in Ancient Rome a political prisoner is ordered to commit suicide? Can I wish them back by wishing back the people the person who made that order killed?

 

[Poke Trainer J]

Whoever FUNimation hired to dub the Ultimate Battle theme when Goku went Ultra Instinct Omen against Jiren needs to be fired. It was already bad enough with the Gogeta theme dub in DBS: Broly but now it's clear to me that FUNimation is slowly going the way of 4Kids with how they ruined One Piece and Sonic X. It's no longer the passion project it once was as it feels more like an obligation for FUNimation voice actors these days.

At least Viz Media would treat the Dragon Ball license which much better respect than FUNimation has though Sony probably put them up to it since FUNimation is a subsidiary of Sony. Not to mention that they've been notorious for a lot of the censorship that's been going on with their Japanese Video Games as of late. I'm just glad that Toei didn't announce Dragon Ball Super returning on Goku Day with the Manga needing to get further ahead.

 

[SBaby]

Whoever FUNimation hired to dub the Ultimate Battle theme when Goku went Ultra Instinct Omen against Jiren needs to be fired. It was already bad enough with the Gogeta theme dub in DBS: Broly but now it's clear to me that FUNimation is slowly going the way of 4Kids with how they ruined One Piece and Sonic X. It's no longer the passion project it once was as it feels more like an obligation for FUNimation voice actors these days.

At least Viz Media would treat the Dragon Ball license which much better respect than FUNimation has though Sony probably put them up to it since FUNimation is a subsidiary of Sony. Not to mention that they've been notorious for a lot of the censorship that's been going on with their Japanese Video Games as of late. I'm just glad that Toei didn't announce Dragon Ball Super returning on Goku Day with the Manga needing to get further ahead.

This is par for the course for FUNimation though. It shouldn't surprise anybody. This is one of many reasons I don't watch their dubs anymore (the recent stuff is just icing on the cake; there are other reasons to not watch things dubbed by them).

Mind you, I really wasn't too fond of the Tournament of Power to begin with, because as I said before on numerous sites, it is one of the most anticlimactic things I've ever seen in the franchise (yes, even moreso than anything seen in GT). Not to mention, but...

Spoiler

It's completely meaningless, because none of the erasures stick. There is literally no point to the tournament, because we learn nothing new about the main characters, and most of what we learn about the other universes, we learn before the tournament.

Yeah, I'm tagging it, in case there are people that haven't seen the end of it yet (all two or three of you).

 

[Red and Blue]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...BEAY&usg=AOvVaw2VdRTmdqWksg25oxFmqQQv&ampcf=1
New Dragon Ball film on the way.

 

[RedJirachi]

I swear, if they just recycle these movies into anime arcs like they did with DBS...

 

[Poke Trainer J]

Looks like this could be the beginning of the end for FUNimation and the English Dragon Ball Dub:

https://heavy.com/entertainment/2019/08/funimation-dragon-ball-z-audio-leaks/

Kinda reminds me of that Google Document leaked about what was going on behind closed doors at Channel Awesome and the fallout of the Nostalgia Critic. In the case with FUNimation, the writing was already on the wall the moment Akira Toriyama conceived Dragon Ball Super. Now FUNimation's VA's are trying to rub off the success of TeamFourStar's DBZ Abridged in order to stay relevant.

The reason why they hid this from the public was so that they wouldn't violate their company's Code of Conduct while also hiding the truth about everyone's suspicions of what was going on with Vic Mignogna at the time. This is definitely not a good look for them as other English VA's associated with other anime licenses had nothing to do with this such as Todd Haberkorn and Cherami Leigh.

 

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

Looks like this could be the beginning of the end for FUNimation and the English Dragon Ball Dub:

https://heavy.com/entertainment/2019/08/funimation-dragon-ball-z-audio-leaks/

Kinda reminds me of that Google Document leaked about what was going on behind closed doors at Channel Awesome and the fallout of the Nostalgia Critic. In the case with FUNimation, the writing was already on the wall the moment Akira Toriyama conceived Dragon Ball Super. Now FUNimation's VA's are trying to rub off the success of TeamFourStar's DBZ Abridged in order to stay relevant.

The reason why they hid this from the public was so that they wouldn't violate their company's Code of Conduct while also hiding the truth about everyone's suspicions of what was going on with Vic Mignogna at the time. This is definitely not a good look for them as other English VA's associated with other anime licenses had nothing to do with this such as Todd Haberkorn and Cherami Leigh.

Wow, that's the most bs explanation ever trying to tie that to DBZA. Those recordings literally predate DBZ Abridged's first episode by several years. It's just some VAs goofing off internally almost two decades ago, that's all it is. And seriously, leaking out a bunch of recordings just for attention? Dragon Ball is one of the largest franchises around, they don't need negative attention whatsoever for relevancy. It also has literally nothing to do with Mignogna... It was never intended to be released to the public because it was just some VAs goofing off and wouldn't look good.

Also, seriously, Toei isn't going to care about this. English dub makes far too much money for some recordings of almost twenty years old to matter, taking Dragon Ball away from Funi over that would just be throwing away money.

 

[Poke Trainer J]

The big takeaway from all this is that FUNimation are caught being hypocrites. They said nothing while their English VA's insulted Vic Mignogna and the Dragon Ball Community, spurred people to boycott their events, and acted like children online instead of coming to their defense. While the audio recordings, as crass as they are, are nothing but jokes, they're still inappropriate and shows their own hypocrisy for singling out Vic for much less. Given what the English VA's have done, Vic Mignogna practically has a case to sue FUNimation as well.

You have to remember that these weren't private audio recordings but one's done at FUNimation's studios as the nature of the jokes would violate FUNimation's policies yet they received no warnings or requests to delete them. The reason why a small group like TeamFourStar could get away with something like this when it comes to DBZ Abridged is that we already know that it's a non-profit fan based parody of an anime license with real comedic material where as the English VA's at FUNimation were parodying an anime license that Toei was still making money off of by going off script.

What strikes me is how TeamFourStar could've known about these secret audio recordings by FUNimation's VA's and decided to capitalize on them through DBZ Abridged not even being aware that it would be beneficial to a lawsuit that nobody saw coming. Perhaps that's why TeamFourStar stopped DBZ Abridged after Cell Saga since they didn't want to get themselves involved in the recent Vic Mignogna scandal. Personally I think it was just mere coincidence on TeamFourStar's part though I can't help but think there might of been more to it.

 

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

The big takeaway from all this is that FUNimation are caught being hypocrites. They said nothing while their English VA's insulted Vic Mignogna and the Dragon Ball Community, spurred people to boycott their events, and acted like children online instead of coming to their defense. While the audio recordings, as crass as they are, are nothing but jokes, they're still inappropriate and shows their own hypocrisy for singling out Vic for much less. Given what the English VA's have done, Vic Mignogna practically has a case to sue FUNimation as well.

Seriously? Sexual harassment of dozens of people, both coworkers and fans, spanning years, is much less than a couple of inappropriate recordings? If you really don't get that sexual harassment with actual victims is much more serious than that we're done here. Seriously, some perspective. I'm not saying the recordings are appropriate, but they're not remotely in the same league of awfulness as what Mignogna did.

You have to remember that these weren't private audio recordings but one's done at FUNimation's studios as the nature of the jokes would violate FUNimation's policies yet they received no warnings or requests to delete them. The reason why a small group like TeamFourStar could get away with something like this when it comes to DBZ Abridged is that we already know that it's a non-profit fan based parody of an anime license with real comedic material where as the English VA's at FUNimation were parodying an anime license that Toei was still making money off of by going off script.

You don't know if they got warned or not. If they did that would be internal, not something Funimation would put on the internet for all to see (especially with those recordings not even being remotely viral or well-known back then). TeamFourStar doesn't have anything to do with this.

What strikes me is how TeamFourStar could've known about these secret audio recordings by FUNimation's VA's and decided to capitalize on them through DBZ Abridged not even being aware that it would be beneficial to a lawsuit that nobody saw coming. Perhaps that's why TeamFourStar stopped DBZ Abridged after Cell Saga since they didn't want to get themselves involved in the recent Vic Mignogna scandal. Personally I think it was just mere coincidence on TeamFourStar's part though I can't help but think there might of been more to it.

Here you're just seeing conspiracies where there are none. It strikes me far more likely that TeamFourStar never knew about these recordings until they went viral a few days ago. They didn't want to get themselves involved in the scandal as a company because it simply has nothing to do with them and it is not their place. There is no basis to even believe that TeamFourStar knew about any of this back in the day, let alone capitalise on it. Also, they didn't stop DBZ Abridged. It's just slowed down production but they confirmed repeatedly that after the Bojack movie and an Otherworld Tournament special they will do the Buu saga. If they'd stop DBZA that wouldn't be because of anything happening at Funimation, but because of repeated copyright strikes from Toei on their Youtube channel and them just wanting to focus on more original materials than a parody of another show.

Oh, and another big difference between TeamFourStar and the VAs at Funimation, TeamFourStar intended for their parody to go public. That's why they put it on Youtube in the first place. Those VAs never intended that.

 

[Poke Trainer J]

I'm not saying that Vic Mignogna is innocent. Don't get the wrong idea, I understand how serious sexual harassment with actual victims are compared to something as minor as inappropriate recordings. Perhaps the FUNimation VA's might be accountable for violating their own company's policies so who knows? At the end of the day, I believe in the U.S. criminal justice system to deliver justice for all, by convicting and punishing the guilty and helping them to stop offending, while protecting the innocent.

For all we know both sides could be just as guilty. What I'm saying is let the courts decide before making any final judgments as to how this case will end or leave it up to God to decide since he's the one who has the final say in the matter. We've forgotten as a society the importance of due process as we automatically label people as being guilty before being proven innocent. Allow hard evidence to speak for itself without trying to slander it for the sake of a biased verdict. There is only one truth.

 

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

I don't even have a clue what your goal here is. First you link some recordings from the early 2000s from a source that's either horribly biased or horribly researched (or both), claiming it looks like it could be "the end of Funimation and English Dub Dragon Ball", then you draw in some involvement from TeamFourStar where there is none, then you come with unfounded accusations towards Funimation being hypocrites for and I quote "singling out Mignogna for much less", which implies that sexual harassment is much less than some inappropriate recordings, and then you suddenly back down and say we should let courts decide (even though none of what you brought up is actually at the courts), that sexual harassment with actual victims is more serious, and in the same post that "both sides could be just as guilty". If inappropriate recordings from almost twenty years ago are indeed minor, how could they possibly spell the potential end of Funimation? Like, you're flopping all over the place and I've got no idea what point you're even trying to make any more.

 

[Poke Trainer J]

What I'm trying to say here is that two wrongs don't make a right. While sexual harassment with actual victims is more serious than inappropriate recordings, both are damaging toward Vic Mignogna's career as a voice actor and FUNimation's reputation as an American Anime licensing company. The only winners are the sexual harassment victims (which is a good thing) with everyone else losing thus essentially becoming a PR nightmare for FUNimation as Vic Mignogna is found guilty for the crimes he allegedly committed.

I apologize for not being straight forward it's just that I didn't want to come off offending you over this controversial scandal that's rocked the Anime Industry as much as KyoAni did. I remember awhile back getting myself in trouble debating about GamerGate on a different message board forum and needless to say it didn't go very well. I did learn my lesson from it so I tried to avoid getting into those kind of social politics until recently as FUNimation has had an impact on my love for Anime since the Toonami days of Dragon Ball Z. Seeing what they've become is disheartening though I tried to avoid talking about Vic Mignogna.

Chuck Huber (voice of Android #17) recently released an affidavit that I think is worth a read and sheds some light as to what's been going on behind the scenes at FUNimation. I'll let the evidence speak for itself while I'll leave it to you and everyone else here to reach their own conclusion on this. If what Huber is saying in this affidavit is true in regards to Vic Mignogna's trial then FUNimation is done as a company while Toei takes back their own anime licenses away from them:

https://matt-in-the-hat.com/2019/08...-reveals-dark-secrets-about-funimation-staff/

Here's the main excerpts from the affidavit that are worth mentioning:

Spoiler

25. In approximately 2016-2017, a director employed at Funimation, told me that Vic would never get a directing job at Funimation because he was "such a douche". This conversation happened at Funimation. I advised Vic of this conversation. Vic later told me he addressed this issue with Justin Cook, a member of Funimation management.

34. Senior Funimation directors have described the work environment at Funimation to me as a "Den of Poison", "Kafka Nightmare", and "Orwellian Slave Factory".

35. My experience working at Funimation was unpleasant. It is well known that if one falls out of favor with certain people (including Chris Sabat) or if one tries to do anything to change the working conditions, that person will not be rehired as a voice actor. I felt threatened with not being used as a voice actor in subsequent projects if I complained about the work environment.

41. When the Dragonball Kai was being recorded in 2007, I heard rumors that actresses had been recast at Funimation for refusing sexual advances by Funimation employees. I consider these rumors credible based on my experience working at Funimation and from direct messages received from a former DBZ cast member.

42. I also heard that actresses who participated in sex with Funimation/Okatron5000 employees were cast in roles. I consider these rumors credible based on my experience working at Funimation.

46. Chris Sabat did most of the casting and recording for the Dragonball Z properties including for the movie Dragonball Z: Super Broly.

48. The voice actors employed by Funimation generally consider Chris Sabat to be a de facto manager at Funimation and they believe his approval and support is vitally beneficial to succeeding at Funimation and the conventions and the converse regarding his disapproval.

72. During my settlement efforts, Todd Haberkorn told me that Chris Sabat, Ron Toye, and Sean Schemmel told him that he was in danger of never working at Funimation again because Haberkorn retained the same law firm as Vic. (see attached email)

74. I contacted Gen Fukanaga, the then CEO of Funimation to discuss my concerns with Chris Sabat's gaslighting of Sean Schemmel, damaging use of his authority toward actors and his attempts to destroy my career, in early March 2019 who met with me and advised that Vic would lose and have to pay via something he had learned about called an Anti-SLAPP motion. He also, in response to my specific concerns about Chris Sabat, said that he had been friends with Chris Sabat for 17 years and he did not believe me. This meeting occurred on March 5, 2019 at 2:30 p.m. in Gen's office approximately a month to a month in a half prior to Vic filing the current pending lawsuit.

80. When I was told about the contents of the "confidential" investigation undertaken by Tammie Denbow on behalf of Funimation, my opinion was that Funimation, Jamie Marchi, and Monica Rial acted together and with encouragement from Chris Sabat and Sean Schemmel, to destroy Vic's career and life.

 

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

I'd encourage you to try and find less biased and more professional sources than some random blogger who can barely even spell-check his site tbh. Also not really sure what Huber's testimony actually adds. Mignogna having a terrible reputation among his coworkers is something that was known for a while already and doesn't exactly do him any favours in trying to paint him as a good guy at all.

Here's the simple truth. Mignogna is suing Rial and some others for defamation. To have an actual case he has to prove that whatever Rial and others have publicly stated about him (like the sexual assault allegations) is both false and damaging to him. Making a case that other coworkers like Schemmel and Sabat are also jerks doesn't do anything whatsoever to prove or disprove anything about the statements of Rial and Marchi, Sabat and Schemmel aren't even the ones being sued. On the contrary actually, indications that more people than just those sued were aware of Mignogna's misdemeanours actually makes the likelihood of Mignogna being falsely accused only that much smaller. In simple terms, if you're trying to clear your name, showing that even more people have bad opinions of you and think you're a creep is counterproductive.

 

[Poke Trainer J]

The FUNimation VA Controversy just recently hit Japan. Should Sony start cleaning house since they own FUNimation?

https://www.konbini.com/en/entertainment-2/goku-2020-tokyo-olympics
https://twitter.com/Yuki_Mats/status/1168164562715193344
https://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20190831-00000007-ignjapan-ent
https://twitter.com/Mister_E_Ni9ma/status/1167877739010871296/photo/1
https://boundingintocomics.com/2019...emoving-vic-mignogna-from-morose-monokean-ii/
https://boundingintocomics.com/2019...nd-lost-pause-nazis-over-vic-mignogna-videos/

This is getting really out of hand...

 

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

I think you're overestimating the impact of this. Dragon Ball is a huge franchise and they're not going to take it away from Funimation over something that happened ages ago. They'll just wait until this all blows over in a couple of weeks. And some individuals that aren't even directly involved making some other claims don't really change anything.

 

[Poke Trainer J]

Dragon Ball has become much like the Pokémon anime nowadays where it exists only to sell merchandise instead of trying to move the story forward. That's really the biggest problem I have with Dragon Ball Super where they're just cramming everything within a 10 year time gap which consequently made everything feel rigid and stagnant. It comes across as trying to maintain a certain status quo, which is something Dragon Ball never really had prior to Super. In Pokémon's case that status quo has been going on since the end of Season 5 Master Quest in 2002 and when there's an actual sense of progression the writers always try to retcon it when Ash Ketchum isn't as integral to the anime franchise as they think just because he's partners with Pikachu the franchise mascot.

If Disney had the balls to replace Luke Skywalker in Star Wars then why can't they replace Ash Ketchum in Pokémon? Yu-Gi-Oh! and Digimon did the same thing and those franchise's sales haven't faltered because of it. Everything nowadays has become too sanitized and kid friendly to the point where they choose to ignore the demographic that grew up with them over the years while forgetting how they became successful in the first place. Dragon Ball needs to be put out of it's misery at this point, it's not the "End All Be All" of the Anime Industry that the media has made it out to be. Sure it was that way for a time back in the 90's and early to mid 2000's however times have changed and most people have already moved on to other anime licenses that are just as good If not better.

 

[BCVM22]

Dragon Ball has become much like the Pokémon anime nowadays where it exists only to sell merchandise

And yet you keep coming back.

If Disney had the balls to replace Luke Skywalker in Star Wars

"The balls to replace Luke Skywalker." Disney alone actually returned Luke to the franchise, as they did his character contemporaries, even if they're no longer the central protagonists. The reality of the matter doesn't quite match your assessment.

Digimon did the same thing and those franchise's sales haven't faltered because of it.

They did, actually. When Digimon was producing a new series annually, ratings were so low on the latter few series that it basically stopped the franchise from producing a new series annually.

Ratings aren't the sole metric for those series. I liked Frontier, I liked Xros Wars, and I probably would have liked Savers had I ever seen the full series, but the point is that franchise's sales did actually start to falter when they moved away from the original protagonists, not that the correlation is direct, or 100%. And, not for nothing, what are the franchise's most recent productions? Six films, soon to be seven, starring whom? The original cast.

Everything nowadays has become too sanitized and kid friendly to the point where they choose to ignore the demographic that grew up with them over the years

"I am older than I was when I first got in to these series and my tastes have changed and I don't know how to process that, so I'll just blame it on buzzwords like 'sanitized' and 'kid friendly' and them not catering to me specifically."

Not a valid argument. Never a valid argument.

Dragon Ball needs to be put out of it's misery at this point

If Dragon Ball really brings you joy no longer, then, again, move on. There's nothing to be changed by ranting here about how much you hate the franchise at this point, as you've done repeatedly over an extended period of time.

 

[Poke Trainer J]

If Dragon Ball really brings you joy no longer, then, again, move on. There's nothing to be changed by ranting here about how much you hate the franchise at this point, as you've done repeatedly over an extended period of time.

It's mostly just disappointment than hatred towards the Dragon Ball franchise for me at this point.